ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on May 11, 2016, 06:28:15 AM
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In attempting to get a correct harness for my '67, I was hoping to see a few close up shots of the early style hood turn light harness in a thread titled as such. I'm fairly sure it has been discussed elsewhere to some extent. Maybe even a re-direct link to another thread?
I should have the braided covering on the lower side where it would exit the lower hole in the hood.
Other threads have discussed the three (or more) hood designs used for the 67's at great length but less discussion about the details of the wiring harnesses used. Currently, my understanding is there are two versions...there may be more than two for all I know.
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Link to other thread with MUCH discussion of the underside of hood details:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5026.30
Reply #34 has a few good shots of the wiring with the braided covering.
I understand there were different bulb sockets too? Maybe not on the early turn signal harnesses (metal) but somewhere along the line going into the 68 style or later style they changed to plastic.
Then there are different turn lamps in the hoods. One without the lamp clamp and ones WTH the lamp clamp. When did that change over occur? (so many questions on these hoods, so few perfect answers)
Then, the louver housings switched to the longer studs somewhere along the line to accomodate the different wiring harness retainers (Yaaah! Yet another change!)
And to add to all of the confusion, different change-over dates at the three assembly dates (at least in how the wiring was affixed to or THROUGH the hood).
Maybe we can focus here mostly on the hood wiring harness for the turn signals itself and the correct bulb housings (metal or plastic), the correct length of the braided covering, the correct colors and type of wiring used in the assembly...things along those lines.
My primary interest at this time is to try and get an early version of the hood harness made available in reproduction world if at all possible...but I know other rabbit trails can be likely with so many running changes.
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Richard I would think you car would be just the same as mine as they were only built days apart in the same plant.
Marty
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Richard I would think you car would be just the same as mine as they were only built days apart in the same plant.
Marty
Agreed.
Marty, I could use better images of the lower area and maybe some "tape measurements" to supply to Alloy Metal. Possibly include the diameter of the cloth sheathing, information along those lines might help a lot in getting an early style reproduction version going that might (did I say might) pass muster on the show field.
I have no objection to the thread also helping others determine what SHOULD be on their example too...I am sure, like my car, several things get replaced as the years flew by, using service parts to keep them on the road.
Always nice to make comparisons to "original examples" with close build data (like yours Marty is close to mine, at least on this detail)
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Richard : It doesn't seem all that long ago that a lot of these items were covered in a previous thread, although I don't think the harness itself was addressed in any depth. One thing that did show up, along with the metal versus plastic light sockets, was that there were at least 3 different type clips used to attach the harness to the underside of the hood; rubber covered metal loop type that attached to the studs for the scoops; metal push on clips that pushed onto the sheet metal; and later 67 and 68 plastic loop clips that were screwed into the hood stiffening member (there may also have been a plastic clip that pushed into holes in the hood stiffening member).
I think any discussion of the Harnesses per se, should also include discussion of the sockets and wiring harness clips, as they seem to be related. I believe that John (67gta289) had quite a few pictures of the under hood harnesses and the different types of clips.
Although it doesn't help right now, I believe that I have originals of both the metal socket Harness and the plastic socket harnesses (as well as a current Repo) at our Colorado place. I can furnish pictures of them in several weeks when we go back there for the Summer.
Bob
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Looks like I do have a few pictures (although not very detailed) I had previously taken of both a Plastic socket Harness and a Metal Socket Harness. Note that neither have the braided portion. Also of interest is that the one with the metal sockets came from a '68 Hood (no holes for the "FORD" letters).
Bob
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Most of mine are from too great a distance to show detail and of course close ups are of worn aged part :(
But here are still a few that might provide some part of the puzzle for you guys working these details out
DEARBORN
7F1291xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163108-56831668.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163107-5681580.jpeg)
NJ
7T260409
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163120-56921387.jpeg)
7T2609xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163119-56911266.jpeg)
San Jose
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163118-56901310.jpeg)
7R1153xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163113-5686523.jpeg)
7R1390xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163114-5687732.jpeg)
7R1518xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163116-56881919.jpeg)
7R194xx hood
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163112-56852388.jpeg)
7R2391xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-110516163117-56891627.jpeg)
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I do know there are two versions of the GT headlight harness (disregarding tach and non-tach dash versions). One has the built-in two prong plug for the hood lamp harness close to the firewall grommet and one that does not. I believe the latter is the rarer version, and that requires a full harness from the headlamps to the hood lamps. Is this part of what you're referring to as early and late turn signal lamp harnesses?
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I do know there are two versions of the GT headlight harness (disregarding tach and non-tach dash versions). One has the built-in two prong plug for the hood lamp harness close to the firewall grommet and one that does not. I believe the latter is the rarer version, and that requires a full harness from the headlamps to the hood lamps. Is this part of what you're referring to as early and late turn signal lamp harnesses?
Nope, I was unaware of this.
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I do know there are two versions of the GT headlight harness (disregarding tach and non-tach dash versions). One has the built-in two prong plug for the hood lamp harness close to the firewall grommet and one that does not. I believe the latter is the rarer version, and that requires a full harness from the headlamps to the hood lamps. Is this part of what you're referring to as early and late turn signal lamp harnesses?
Do you have example of the one piece harness? I have never seen any 67 or 68 with a one piece harness. It seems impractical.
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I don't think I have an example. I may be confused...I do know that there are two variants of the headlight harnesses, though. Could one version be integral to the headlight harness and the other version not integral, but both mate to the hood turn signal harness? It's been a while since I ran across this problem...I seem to remember I had to replace a customer's headlight harness with one that had the plug built in for the hood harness. His original harness was too far gone for refurbishment, so I replaced it with one from my stock but it didn't come with that hood plug, not knowing that there were those with and without the hood plug.
I have at least three hood turn harnesses in various conditions, but really never compared them. If any body wants, I can take photos for the group. Some have the clips in place on the harness itself.
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I have at least three hood turn harnesses in various conditions, but really never compared them. If any body wants, I can take photos for the group. Some have the clips in place on the harness itself.
Yes, thanks. The pictures may prove to be "enlightening".
Bob
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With the several pictures shared so far in this thread and ones shared within the other thread http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5026.30 I have noticed several variations. I might need to put together a file with VIN numbers to sort it out. Within the other thread, we already had significant discussion over the hood variations and I don't think there was ever a consensus reached mentioning any estimated change-over dates. At very least, there was about a 3-4 week difference of changing over at the different assembly plants.
WIRING DIFFERENCES NOTED SO FAR (please offer any variations you may have noticed to futher discuss)
* Metal Bulb Sockets or Plastic Bulb Sockets
* Cloth Braided Sheathing or Plastic Sheathing (some have been taped?)
* Attached to lower area of hood or not attached (seems the very early hoods with "no holes" were not attached)
* Attached to the cowl with ground wire or not attached (this was seen on several other variations
* Bulb Socket secured to lamp with screw & bracket or bulb simply snapped into the lamp (no screw or bracket)
A spreadsheet might help narrow these variations down but maybe we could finalize every variation noticed to date first?
Any help appreciated. This could be time consuming and I have a lot on my plate at the moment. I have already determined what I need to use on my example, I am simply trying to help establish a better guide for others to utilize when searching for components to install their wiring. Best case scenario, we could offer the results to a Harness Company to build a few more variations closer to original examples.
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OK...here's what I have. All three are different. I really don't know what years these are from (except 67/68) let alone the dates or factories.
The first one is in great shape and has the cloth loom:
(http://midlife66.com/harnesses/pics/IMG_0582.JPG)
The next one has what appears to be a heat-shrink type tubing:
(http://midlife66.com/harnesses/pics/IMG_0584.JPG)
And the third one is missing all tape/loom, but has much different bulb sockets:
(http://midlife66.com/harnesses/pics/IMG_0585.JPG)
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I can not say for certain but the last one may be a 69.
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I can not say for certain but the last one may be a 69.
Agreed, I've not seen that one on a 67 or 68 before...I also wondered about it fitting a 69 or maybe Torino or likes with the hood scoop signals.
I do know there are two versions of the GT headlight harness (disregarding tach and non-tach dash versions). One has the built-in two prong plug for the hood lamp harness close to the firewall grommet and one that does not. I believe the latter is the rarer version, and that requires a full harness from the headlamps to the hood lamps. Is this part of what you're referring to as early and late turn signal lamp harnesses?
I don't think I have an example. I may be confused...I do know that there are two variants of the headlight harnesses, though. Could one version be integral to the headlight harness and the other version not integral, but both mate to the hood turn signal harness? It's been a while since I ran across this problem...I seem to remember I had to replace a customer's headlight harness with one that had the plug built in for the hood harness. His original harness was too far gone for refurbishment, so I replaced it with one from my stock but it didn't come with that hood plug, not knowing that there were those with and without the hood plug.
I have at least three hood turn harnesses in various conditions, but really never compared them. If any body wants, I can take photos for the group. Some have the clips in place on the harness itself.
Recently (maybe 6 months ago), somebody was discussing a seperate harness used for the turn lights on a newer Mustang (say a 69?) and was looking for this seperate harness between the headlight area and the cowl area to power those hood scoop turn lights. Maybe this is was you were remembering? I'm not well schooled on the 69-up variants. Never needed to work on this detail yet.
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Pertaining to ONLY the plastic harness holder that SOME examples have on the cowl, I haven't noticed yet that the later 67-68 version with the plastic sheathing has ever used this wiring holder. Some examples do not even have a wiring holder on the hood itself either. Not sure what this means at this time but it looks more like some workers may have simply tore off the holders and didn't use them or some suppliers didn't put them on the harness. The holder when present, looks to be secured with the ground wire. This could be the "why", maybe there were issues arising with poor grounds for the lights?
Here are copies of pictures a few people have shared so far (this thread & other thread):
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I have in my possession an original late 67 or 68 version known to be removed from a 68 way back in the mid-80's.
I hope it helps others, it looks most like the current reproduction versions available today on the market.
Not much help for us early 67 owners. Measurements are all taken from the plug-in end on out. Wire color codes are Green with White tracer for Lt. Turn light and White w/Blue tracer for Rt. Turn Light. (Original wiring holders for a 68 are also pictured from 4 angles)
For the early versions, I purchased the harness in the FIRST picture that Randy (aka Midlife) posted earlier in this thread and once I receive it, I will post similar pictures with measurements.
It would be VERY nice to see the other early versions become available one day...or at least one that closer matches up to the early versions.
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Richard,
I have the one from reply #6 car 7F1291xx in my possession. I could offer that up to be used to make a reproduction, but it is pretty beat up. I might have one that is better, need to check. John
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Richard,
I have the one from reply #6 car 7F1291xx in my possession. I could offer that up to be used to make a reproduction, but it is pretty beat up. I might have one that is better, need to check. John
It is possible to use it as a wiring pattern and with other example details provided, the other issues maybe can be resolved.
Will let you know once I talove to Jim at A/M again next week
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I have in my possession an original late 67 or 68 version known to be removed from a 68 way back in the mid-80's.
I hope it helps others, it looks most like the current reproduction versions available today on the market.
Not much help for us early 67 owners. Measurements are all taken from the plug-in end on out. Wire color codes are Green with White tracer for Lt. Turn light and White w/Blue tracer for Rt. Turn Light. (Original wiring holders for a 68 are also pictured from 4 angles)
For the early versions, I purchased the harness in the FIRST picture that Randy (aka Midlife) posted earlier in this thread and once I receive it, I will post similar pictures with measurements.
It would be VERY nice to see the other early versions become available one day...or at least one that closer matches up to the early versions.
I see I never responded to this claim I would measure the harness when it arrived. I will try to locate it again and I will also try and post images of the one I made up using a new Alloy Metal harness, replacing the vinyl version of conduit with new cloth/tar conduit piece swapped into it's place.