ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Drivetrain => Topic started by: J_Speegle on February 03, 2017, 08:26:27 PM
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Couldn't find an earlier discussion to add this to so figured I would just place it here since it likely applies to many years.
Below is a capture from a (believed to be from 1968) Ford film showing production of parts and cars. What it shows in a small block engine with a oil filter installed as its just about to be painted. Painter appears to be painting the engine behind the forward one at the moment the worker was filmed. Found it interesting supporting what some believed and likely altering what others thought in the past. Hard to dismiss a picture like this ;)
Wish it was even clearer and in color - so much we could also learn but happy we have at least this
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-030217192007-6724736.jpeg)
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I have accepted either over the years (painted on engine and painted off and installed after). Believe it would be prudent to not jump to any conclusions, but at least it's an offering of what was done at one point during production.
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I have accepted either over the years (painted on engine and painted off and installed after). Believe it would be prudent to not jump to any conclusions, but at least it's an offering of what was done at one point during production.
Since we don't have any other documentation I don't think this a jump to a conclusion - and would doubt that we got lucky that the only day they were painting engines with the oil filters in place happened to be this particular day they were filling. Agree a single picture does not remove all doubt but in a vacuum of other original sources and unlike documents that show how Ford wanted things to be done and other things, we have an example with no evidence to the contrary at this point
We already have other original pictures with block colored filters, the question in some circles has been if they were on the block when the engine was painted. Picture appears to show that they were painted unlike the retail versions (which would have been white) leaving the next question how much of the filter normally got paint on it. We have some peers who have had and seen original pictures with blue paint runs in patterns suggesting that that filter was on the engine at the time of painting
Need to go back through the 70 engine paint instructions again to see if I missed anything about the oil filter :-\
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The end of the filter in place in the still doesn't look like it has crimped edges? Would it be possible this was a temporary screw on oil filter 'placebo' and was replaced later? I was thinking maybe the filters were installed later to keep them from getting damaged in transit to the assembly plant?
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The end of the filter in place in the still doesn't look like it has crimped edges?
IMHO hard to determine much of any detail. Like usual taking a clip from a low resolution film rarely provides any fine detail. Can't even really make out the bolt heads holding on the water pump :( Another reason to search out more examples
Would it be possible this was a temporary screw on oil filter 'placebo' and was replaced later?
Possible if changed out at the engine plant but for what reason would Ford want to spend money installing and removing then reinstalling a filter? Think they could have built a throw away or reuseable mask like the ones for the water necks, fuel filter mating surface and so on. Also would not explain how others have found paint and runs on original filters that have seen. Easy to see we need to continue to discuss and search
I was thinking maybe the filters were installed later to keep them from getting damaged in transit to the assembly plant?
Know we have a number of period pictures with filters on crated engines that were shipped to car assembly plants and other places. Pretty sure they would have replaced one if damaged in route. Pretty sure Ford would have made sure that the process reduced (allot) the possibility of this happening to the engine. That would include the oil pan, valve covers .......
Don't think I've posted the original small block picture yet of the 2 millionth small block yet. should do that since it kind of relates to this discussion
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Let me throw this wrench into the works...
I am going to say that the engine in the foreground hasn't been painted yet.
#1 look at the machined bolt bosses on the water pump.
#2 if this is from 1968 and the oil filter is blue or even black the rest of the engine is MUCH lighter than that, even in the shadows.
The cast water pump appears darker than the steel oil pan and aluminum timing cover. And then there are the valve covers. Way to light to have been painted even at the rear they are still light like bare steel regardless of the lights and reflections.
#3 If the engine was painted the crankshaft plug would appear to be the same shade as the surrounding areas of the timing cover and front of the oil pan.
Regards,
Scott
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Let me throw this wrench into the works...
I am going to say that the engine in the foreground hasn't been painted yet.
Not sure if your saying anything to the contrary - but we're just discussing what little we can glean from the picture
Yes it appears that the worker is painting the engine behind the engine that we're discussing so we would expect to see a range of different finishes and in this case tones
#1 look at the machined bolt bosses on the water pump.
Believe that would be consistent with a cast iron water pump - seen this on NOS/service replacements in the factory box and
Think the rest of your observations are very similar to what everyone else is seeing - an unpainted engine with all its different metals and pieces contrasting with one another at that time prior to painting
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Apparently I read your original post wrong. Should have concentrated on it instead of splitting my time watching a Dwayne Johnson Ford video looking for 2018 Bullitt images.
Regards,
Scott
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Apparently I read your original post wrong.
You're welcome. (Inside joke.)
Jim
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Some additional pictures related to the small block oil filters. Just close ups of larger pictures shown in other threads and discussions
65 Shipping dock. Engines awaiting shipment to car assembly plants
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-060217175513-67372047.jpeg)
One of allot of new engines received at Hollman & Moody during 64 or 65. Poor resolution from a magazine picture on cheap paper
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-060217175511-6736263.jpeg)
68 Engine installation at San Jose plant
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-060217175514-6738913.jpeg)
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To add to the discussion there is a picture of the oil filter on a 64 V8 at the oil pressure test station (was looking at those for another thread discussion) that you can make out the printing (possibly silk screened) on that filter so at least on those the paint (if any) didn't cover that far up the filter on that year and application
Title - 64 Cleveland Engine Plant V8 Oil Pressure Test
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I surmise Ford went to all blue in '66 Model year since it was more work to paint the engine separately from the valve covers?
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I surmise Ford went to all blue in '66 Model year since it was more work to paint the engine separately from the valve covers?
If you do a search you should find a thread where a full page advertise is shown from Ford explaining why they changed to blue on their engines ;)
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Jeff,
Thank you for the tip - I found it interesting heh heh.
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Jeff,
Thank you for the tip - I found it interesting heh heh.
Can anyone provide a link? I surely don't remember reading that in the past and a search brought up 23 pages of "engine paint"...
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I surmise Ford went to all blue in '66 Model year since it was more work to paint the engine separately from the valve covers?
According to Ford documents it was late 65 production. Ether July 15 or August 15 at the engine plant if I remember correctly .
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According to Ford documents it was late 65 production. Ether July 15 or August 15 at the engine plant if I remember correctly .
Must be August of 1965. My parents ordered a '65 Ford Ranch Wagon (Galaxie class) and I believe the schedule build date was in July of 1965. I will have to check the warrantee plate to be sure but it was a very late '65 wagon. Its 289 had the gold aircleaner and valve covers (the small diameter air cleaner).
I haven't found the sales receipts yet but I do know where the original title to the wagon is located - its issue date should be within a month of when my parents received the vehicle.
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Can anyone provide a link? I surely don't remember reading that in the past and a search brought up 23 pages of "engine paint"...
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5011.msg28133#msg28133 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5011.msg28133#msg28133)
I had to type "blue engine" before the search narrowed it down to where I could find it.
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Must be August of 1965. My parents ordered a '65 Ford Ranch Wagon (Galaxie class) and I believe the schedule build date was in July of 1965. I will have to check the warrantee plate to be sure but it was a very late '65 wagon. Its 289 had the gold aircleaner and valve covers (the small diameter air cleaner).
I haven't found the sales receipts yet but I do know where the original title to the wagon is located - its issue date should be within a month of when my parents received the vehicle.
I believe it was August of 15 of 65 . I am looking for my copy of the Ford Memo I have. That was the date it would have changed at the engine plant . It would probably be a little bit after that. Days, weeks or ? before the blue engines would show up in cars built at the various plants . So just because a car was built on that August 15 date wouldn't mean it would have a blue engine. It would take time before logistically the blue engines caught up with the builds at the assemblyline plants.
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Are all of you saying that there were original 1965's with blue engines at the tail end of production? I was always under the impression that the change-over was at the model year turn-over.
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Are all of you saying that there were original 1965's with blue engines at the tail end of production? I was always under the impression that the change-over was at the model year turn-over.
So was I until i saw the Ford Memo :) .