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Restoring - General discussions that apply across many different years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 23, 2017, 11:11:07 PM

Title: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 23, 2017, 11:11:07 PM
Hi Everyone,

I'm slowly making progress on the 68 Mercury Parklane.  I have been tackling the lights.  I have all lights working except for the turn signals.  I have replaced all the bulbs, dimmer switch, voltage regulator, turn signal switch,all fuses, turn signal and emergency flashers.  Originally nothing worked when I started. 

The new turn signal switch got the emergency flashers to work but not the turn signals.

What am I missing or can check?

Thanks Mark 
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: J_Speegle on March 24, 2017, 12:18:34 AM
I would get a wiring diagram and a trouble or test light and start either tracing the power from the source or from the end working towards the source. Not a fun job but know of no secret if you have already checked all the connections and grounds.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on March 24, 2017, 07:30:26 AM
I would get a wiring diagram and a trouble or test light and start either tracing the power from the source or from the end working towards the source. Not a fun job but know of no secret if you have already checked all the connections and grounds.

+1
Before testing ANYTHING, you may wish to confirm you have the correct amperage fuses in your TS circuit AND Flasher circuits in case any wrong wires get connected or are incorrect. Would hate to hear your efforts went up in flames.

Start at the TS Flasher unit (2-wires), one should have 12V with the key on, the other goes on directly to the TS switch. You should be able to find the same color wire at the TS switch connection. That wire will be your "12V source" to your TS wiring and is the FIRST place to confirm. The TS flasher is simply a heated element interrupter. If you jumper the two wires at the TS flasher, your 12V signal going towards the TS switch should "stay on" constantly now (as long as the key is also "on"). If it is a bad flasher for example, by jumpering the flasher, connectors together, you will remove it from the possibilities of causes to your problem AND it will provide a constant 12V source at the TS switch to aide in any further testing (if needed) If this 12V source wire is connected to the correct 12v input wire of the TS switch, the rest of the testing should go fairly easily. If this doesn't get you going, you really must have a schematic at this point. Keep in mind that some replacement TS switches have incorrect wiring colors so beware of this. In this situation, you will need to do a continuity test of the switch to determine what wire is the correct "source" wire for that switch.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: jwc66k on March 24, 2017, 01:39:45 PM
Usually it's the switch in the steering column that's the problem. A wiring diagram is essential, and many service manuals have them.
Jim
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 24, 2017, 02:05:20 PM
I have a new switch, service manual and wiring diagrams. Tracking and testing is next it sounds like. Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 24, 2017, 10:35:57 PM
Hey this may be a dumb question but does the steering wheel need to be on in order for the turn signal to work?  I don't know but thought might ground everything.  Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on March 25, 2017, 05:55:16 AM
Hey this may be a dumb question but does the steering wheel need to be on in order for the turn signal to work?  I don't know but thought might ground everything.  Thanks Mark

No.

More likely a bad connection at the bulk connector  (at the steering column harness to the main under dash harness) or the wires are plugged into the bulk connector incorrectly (since they are often unplugged from the bulk connector to feed them down the steering column). Real easy to get one plugged in wrong, hence the concern for fused protection and the suggestion (several times now suggested) to trace out the schematics. You are literally playing with fire (or a possible short circuit of sorts) if you are not clear on this.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 25, 2017, 11:39:24 PM
Had a chance to do a few checks today.  The car isn't  at my house so I don't work on it daily.   I took picture of the old turn signal switch wires sequence and
have the same wires in the connectors slot.  Checked the t/s flasher and had 12v  on the 2 prong connector.   Thanks Mark   
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on March 26, 2017, 08:22:00 AM
Had a chance to do a few checks today.  The car isn't  at my house so I don't work on it daily.   I took picture of the old turn signal switch wires sequence and
have the same wires in the connectors slot.  Checked the t/s flasher and had 12v  on the 2 prong connector.   Thanks Mark

Good starting point.
1.) Be sure you are on the TS flasher NOT the hazard flasher (verified by 12V constant vs. 12V switched, it should be switched NOT constant)
2.) Identify the TS Flasher output wire COLORS (the wire of the TS flasher without that 12V switched source). Look for the same color wire at the TS column connector and test it THROUGH the connector (both sides) while the connector is plugged in. Be careful while probing so as not to distort the wiring connector pins. People often have trouble caused by the thick probe of a test light, spreading the connector and losing the connection(s).

This should verify if you are getting the 12V SWITCHED source into the TS switch or not. Once you have established this AND since you earlier said the hazards all seem to work, you should be up and running (or so I would think anyways) Electrical troubles are hard to pinpoint through a keyboard, it is really an easy job for those who understand how it all works to do it in person, but not very easy to communicate it through the written word.

Hope this gets you going.




Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: jwc66k on March 26, 2017, 12:17:41 PM
Flashers are sometimes marked "2 lamp" or "4 lamp", the former for turn, the latter for emergency use.
Jim
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 26, 2017, 07:06:48 PM
I quick update. I verified the t/s flasher and the emergency flasher.  The shop manual says emergency on right side of brake pedal and t/s on the left side of brake pedal.   Checked for power of one terminal on emergency flasher and had power. Pushed in the emergency button on steering column and had power on second terminal and the flashers come on.

The turn signal flasher showed 12v or so on both terminals.  I replaced the new t/s flasher with another one I had.  I had 12v in all 3 positions.  Right turn, neutral and left turn positions.  When I clicked it to right or left the test  light would blink and the flasher would make the turn signal clicking noise but but turn lights working. 

I know its hard to trouble shoot over the computer but your advice and knowledge really helps me.  I have identified the 2 wires from the turn signal switch and will trace them out the best I can.  Thanks Mark       
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 30, 2017, 10:40:44 PM
I was wire testing with the light tester today.  I disconnected the turn signal harness from the main wiring harness it connects to.  Testing the main wiring harness the yellow wire is hot.  I figure that 's my main power line.  Then a white with red stripe wire shows about 25% power on the tester light.  Any ideal why this is?

When I touch the test light to another wire the test starts to blink like the t/s and the t/s flasher  makes the click sound.  It does it in the 2 turn positions plus the neutral (middle) position.  Again why would it do that or is that correct?


Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on March 30, 2017, 11:05:50 PM
Yellow wire is fused hot for horn input power.  White/red wire is typically the emergency flasher input  line (4-way) to the turn signal.  It may be getting some power through the flasher can when you probe it with a test light.

BTW, test lights are not the best tools to use for electrical trouble-shooting, particularly with flasher cans and lamp sockets that have other bulbs involved in the circuitry. 

What other wire causes the turn signal to blink?
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on March 30, 2017, 11:59:20 PM
What's the best tool to use in this process?  I'm not sure the wire, I will get back with you on that. Thanks Randy.  Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on March 31, 2017, 08:12:50 AM
A digital volt-ohm meter that can also read DC current up to 10 or 20 amps is an excellent trouble-shooting tool, if one knows how to use it.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: jwc66k on March 31, 2017, 12:42:56 PM
A digital volt-ohm meter that can also read DC current up to 10 or 20 amps is an excellent trouble-shooting tool, if one knows how to use it.
In other words, don't. More meters are ruined attempting a current test.
Jim
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 02, 2017, 05:17:14 PM
Ok the dark blue wire #44 blinks when touched by the test light. It does it in all 3 positions. The 25 percent lit wire is the white with red stripe that goes to the emergency flasher. All other wires show no power according to test light with the key in the accessories position. Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 02, 2017, 06:39:35 PM
Wire #44 is the turn signal flasher wire, IIRC.  The power to the turn signal flasher should be ACC-fused, so if the key is out and you're seeing 12V, something is wrong with the wiring somewhere.

I'd continue trouble-shooting by removing the e-flasher can so that system is isolated from the system.  Find the orange wire to the turn signal flasher can and check for voltage with key out and with key in ACC.  Let's start there and do a systematic trouble-shoot, OK?
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 02, 2017, 10:57:42 PM
Thanks Randy for your patience, knowledge and willingness.  I will check that tomorrow.  The multi meter I had there didn't have the DC option.  It was in another car so I got the right one.  Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 03, 2017, 04:33:41 PM
Ok, I removed the e flasher. I tested the orange wire for the ts flasher and got 0 in the key off position with the key in and out.
 
Turned key to acc and got 11.9 -12.0 volts. My meter has dcv and dva. I used  the dcv.

BTW the entire dash is out of the car. The only wiring changes I did was new ts switch and the 2 new flashers. The car hasn't been on the road since 1984. But it's up and running, all lights except the ts and the horns work.  Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 03, 2017, 07:09:58 PM
Ok, I removed the e flasher. I tested the orange wire for the ts flasher and got 0 in the key off position with the key in and out.
 
Turned key to acc and got 11.9 -12.0 volts. My meter has dcv and dva. I used  the dcv.

BTW the entire dash is out of the car. The only wiring changes I did was new ts switch and the 2 new flashers. The car hasn't been on the road since 1984. But it's up and running, all lights except the ts and the horns work.  Thanks Mark
Yes, DCV.  No need to test key in or out; just OFF and ACC.  Your readings are what are expected, so you have power to the flasher. 

OK...disconnect the plug from the turn signal flasher and jumper the pins on the connector.  You should now have power to the turn signal switch, but the lights will not flash but stay on.  With ACC and the turn signal switch in neutral, no lights on either side, front or back.  With TS switch to one side, those lights should be on, front and back.  Be careful with jumper.  You can use a paper clip, but protect the exposed metal from shorting out to the chassis!  If wires start to smoke or get hot, turn key to OFF immediately.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 03, 2017, 07:54:35 PM
Ok I did the above test. The orange wire stayed hot and when I jumped it the other blue wire it was hot. None of the ts lights turned on. Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 03, 2017, 09:57:59 PM
OK.  Next, we are going to see if power goes to the turn signal switch connector.  Keep the plug to the flasher jumpered, disconnect the turn signal switch, and probe the blue wire at the outer curve, left-most side when looking at the underdash portion of the turn signal switch connector.  You should see 12V.

Another, safer, test, is to remove your flasher jumper and measure resistance between the blue pin on the flasher connector and the blue pin (as located above) on the disconnected turn signal switch connector.  You should see 1 ohm or less.  Set your DVM to resistance, or an upside down U, set to 200 ohms max range or somewhat close to that value.

Take a close look at that blue pin and ensure it is not recessed, as well as its mate on the turn signal switch side. 
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 03, 2017, 11:30:42 PM
I will check.  I believe I did this step also earlier today by chance.  I only got 12v on the yellow wire on the dash wiring harness that the t/s harness connects to.  I didn't check the pins.   I will re check everything as you have outlined tomorrow and update you.  Thanks so much Randy.   Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 04, 2017, 07:33:16 AM
The yellow wire is unimportant in this trouble-shooting venture, as it is horn power and is unrelated to turn signals themselves.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 04, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
Ok I did the first test. I got 11.9v on the blue wire. I checked the pins and receivers on both pieces oh the t/s wires. All looks good. Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 04, 2017, 02:56:01 PM
When all else fails...at least it's FREE!


PS: There is a 5-minute video on how to refill your Blinker Fluid on Youtube (if instructions are needed) ;D Yes, I know TS work can be frustrating...I learned from the school of hard knocks WITHOUT any wiring diagrams & nobody else with knowledge of how they worked around either...We'll get you going, you are in good hands with Randy (aka Midlife)
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 04, 2017, 09:14:03 PM
Ok I did the first test. I got 11.9v on the blue wire. I checked the pins and receivers on both pieces oh the t/s wires. All looks good. Mark
OK...you're getting power to the turn signal switch.  Let's turn to the turn signal switch itself.  First, disconnect it from the underdash harness and you'll need to set your DVM to resistance, ohms, or the upside down U.  No need for the key to power anything.  Put the turn signal switch lever in the neutral position and look for resistance between the blue wire and the following: white/blue, green/white, orange/blue, and green/orange.  These wires are in the center of the turn signal switch connector, top and bottom row.  You should see high resistance between blue and these wires.

Now put your turn signal switch to the down or left side position.  Measure resistance again as above, and you should get low resistance for the green/white (front) and green/red (rear) lamp turn signals.  High resistance for the other two wires.

Put the turn signal switch to the up or right side position.  Resistance should be low between blue and white/blue (front) and orange/blue (rear) wires.  High resistance for the other two.

Now then...brake lights come from the green wire below the blue wire.  You can measure resistance between the green wire and the four above.  You should see high resistance for the white/blue and green/white wires and low resistance for the green/red and orange/blue wires, with the turn signal lever position in the neutral position. 

Post the results and I'll bet 67gtasanjose's afternoon chardonnay glass that the turn signal switch is bad.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 04, 2017, 09:32:45 PM
I will check tomorrow when I'm at the car.  It's be kept at one of my clients garage.  It barely fits in the garage. I have about 3" to the drywall. Thanks a ton Randy. Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 04, 2017, 10:29:15 PM
No problem.  This thread should turn out to be a good tutorial about how to trouble-shoot electrical issues.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: J_Speegle on April 04, 2017, 11:16:00 PM
No problem.  This thread should turn out to be a good tutorial about how to trouble-shoot electrical issues.

Agreed - will move it to the Processes, Products & Techniques  section rather than leave it here in the Mercury section
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 04, 2017, 11:18:09 PM
I fully agree.  I'm as green as it comes to car wiring.  But I have learned a lot, used tools for the first time and starting to understand what Randy is saying.

Thanks Mark   
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 05, 2017, 09:05:08 AM
OK, on a serious note, without any "Chardonnay..." (just for today ;) )
Since we have moved this over to "General Discussions ~ Processes & Techniques" the information already shared to this point MAY not match up to every example out there (example, pin connections in the TS harness to main under dash harness, the O.P.'s Mercury looks to have a curved plastic bulk connector at this juncture point where I know other examples do not). Another situation is that the '66 and older Mustangs DO NOT incorporate the hazard flashers into the steering column, though the basic function of the Turn Signals is 100% the same. (67-up has more wiring to work with in the column)  I'm not trying to nit-pick details since I am sure the information is most likely 100% correct for the O.P's example.

What I am asking is, that for clarity purposes, that perhaps not only the wire 'color' be described but to possibly consider including the circuit number that Ford engineers provided in the descriptions/comments. Ford used the same circuit numbers for many years just like they usually used the same wire colors for many years. This added "circuit number" (with the wire color) could aide in translations to other applications for future readers of this thread. I know when I trace out schematics I like to use both so those readers who are "wired" like I am, this could help us a LOT!

Just a suggestion, not trying to derail or hi-jack the thread in any way. To explain what I am suggesting, using Midlife's previous quote (with only detailed wiring colors), I have copied his text and added (high-lighted in red) the particular circuit numbers. I have confirmed the circuit numbers using the 1967 Osborne Assembly Electrical Manual, page 96, that these wiring colors shared earlier MATCH 100% to my wiring diagram of my 67.

OK...you're getting power to the turn signal switch.  Let's turn to the turn signal switch itself.  First, disconnect it from the underdash harness and you'll need to set your DVM to resistance, ohms, or the upside down U.  No need for the key to power anything.  Put the turn signal switch lever in the neutral position and look for resistance between the blue wire (circuit # 44) and the following: white/blue(circuit # 49), green/white,(circuit # 50) orange/blue(circuit # 5), and green/orange(circuit # 9).  These wires are in the center of the turn signal switch connector, top and bottom row.  You should see high resistance between blue and these wires.

Now put your turn signal switch to the down or left side position.  Measure resistance again as above, and you should get low resistance for the green/white (front) (circuit # 50)and green/red (rear)(circuit # 10) lamp turn signals.  High resistance for the other two wires.

Put the turn signal switch to the up or right side position.  Resistance should be low between blue(circuit # 44) and white/blue (front)(circuit # 49) and orange/blue (rear) (circuit # 5)wires.  High resistance for the other two.

Now then...brake lights come from the green wire(circuit # 511) below the blue wire(circuit # 44).  You can measure resistance between the green wire(circuit # 511) and the four above.  You should see high resistance for the white/blue(circuit # 49) and green/white wires (circuit # 50)and low resistance for the green/red (circuit # 10)and orange/blue wires(circuit # 5), with the turn signal lever position in the neutral position. 

Post the results and I'll bet 67gtasanjose's afternoon chardonnay glass that the turn signal switch is bad.

I think I copied over the correct circuit numbers, anyone is welcome to double check.

My money, (no booze, or Chardonnay ;) ) is on connection issues and/or incorrectly pinned connector(s) (pins plugged into incorrect cavity perhaps) We'll see. Randy does these things far more often than I do and either is suspect at this point of time for the O.P.'s situation IMHO
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 05, 2017, 01:35:37 PM
Fair enough to include circuit numbers, but a lot of folks don't use that and go by wire colors.  And yes, TS connectors vary in design from 64.5-66, 67, 68, and then 69-72 and 73, but wire colors remain the same.

And for what it is worth, the Mercury Parklane's TS connector matches the 69-72 design. 

In my mind, what's important is the process of trouble-shooting to isolate where the problem is, not the specifics of a particular design.  KISS: keep it simple, and test in a rigorous, systematic manner will always get you to the root of the problem.


Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 05, 2017, 02:39:59 PM


In my mind, what's important is the process of trouble-shooting to isolate where the problem is, not the specifics of a particular design.  KISS: keep it simple, and test in a rigorous, systematic manner will always get you to the root of the problem.

+1           I Agree with the KISS methodology...I thought the different TS Switch/Steering column bulk connectors used across various model years and various Ford applications could cause confusion now since the topic got moved to this particular "Processes, Products & Techniques"heading. Now, with the circuit number AND the wiring colors combined with a Ford Schematic found in any assembly manual or Ford Service Manual, by matching the circuit number to the wiring color key chart, you can very easily identify where each wire is supposed to be found in the TS Switch/Steering column bulk connector. That has to be of help to people. I think this thread can and will help many, even more-so now it is across multiple years/applications, not limited to only the O.P's Mercury example or any single model year of our Mustangs.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 05, 2017, 04:41:22 PM
Ok let me try to explain what I did. To many blue wires. So I used the blue wire on the left side of t/s switch. The side where the t/s lever screws in.

Ok that blue wire to the e flasher blue wire. I got 1.5 to .01 ohms. It always decreased.

Then with t/s lever down on. I used t/s blue wire to grn/white and got 1.3 to .01. Then blue to grn/red and got 1.6 to .01

With t/s up from the blue to white/blue I got 1.1 to .01. Then blue to orange/blue I got 2.1 to .01.

This is with the t/s switch not attached to the steering column.  That's because some of the wires are connected to the back side of the switch.

So am I using the correct blue wire to measure from when testing the other ones?

With t/s switch attached to the steering column I get the same blue to blue wire reading. With the t/s lever down I get nothing from the blue wire to other wires. With the t/s lever up from the blue to white/blue I got 1.0 to .01.

It seems I got more and better results with the t/s not attached. I'm not sure why. It does have the tilt wheel option

Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 05, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Ok let me try to explain what I did. To many blue wires. So I used the blue wire on the left side of t/s switch. The side where the t/s lever screws in.  Is this looking at the turn signal switch connector going to the steering wheel?

Ok that blue wire to the e flasher blue wire. I got 1.5 to .01 ohms. It always decreased. There is no e-flasher blue wire.  The e-flasher wire colors are white/red (385 which is power to the turn signal switch) and red/white (383, which is power to the e-flasher can). 

Then with t/s lever down on. I used t/s blue wire to grn/white and got 1.3 to .01. Then blue to grn/red and got 1.6 to .01  I suspect you are measuring the system with bulbs in the circuitry.  What I want you to do is to simply unplug the turn signal switch connector at the column and probe the pins going to the steering wheel, isolating the turn signal switch itself from the rest of the car.  You should not get much variation of resistance.

With t/s up from the blue to white/blue I got 1.1 to .01. Then blue to orange/blue I got 2.1 to .01.  Ditto. 

This is with the t/s switch not attached to the steering column.  That's because some of the wires are connected to the back side of the switch.

So am I using the correct blue wire to measure from when testing the other ones?  There is only one solid blue wire (44) that comes from the turn signal flasher can.  The only other blue wire is the horn output, typically blue/yellow (482) which is located on the inner curve for your vehicle and opposite the 44 wire.

With t/s switch attached to the steering column I get the same blue to blue wire reading. With the t/s lever down I get nothing from the blue wire to other wires. With the t/s lever up from the blue to white/blue I got 1.0 to .01.  I don't understand this test.  You say the t/s switch attached to the steering column...is this different than above?  Or are you saying you've plugged in the two connectors and are probing from the flasher can pin  to the other wires?  How are you able to probe these other wires with the connectors mated? 

It seems I got more and better results with the t/s not attached. I'm not sure why. It does have the tilt wheel option  Please explain in more detail what you mean "the t/s not attached".



Thanks Mark

Ideally, you could perform the same test on the turn signal switch with it entirely removed from the steering wheel column, but that means de-pinning the connector and that's a PITA.  The test I asked you to perform essentially probes the installed turn signal switch, which sits behind the steering wheel, with it electrically isolated from the entire car.  With your readings of 1.1 to 0.1, that tells me you are measuring the resistance of the bulbs (1.1 ohms) to ground and straight resistance (0.1 ohms) when the flasher can is doing its thing.  Electrical trouble-shooting of lamps is best performed when the bulbs are removed, as the resistance of the bulbs are reasonably low (~ 1 ohm) so it provides ambiguity as to the results. 

The key is to isolate small sections of the wiring and test each one at a time.  If all sections function correctly when isolated but fail when they are connected, then the problem is at the connectors.  Let's first determine if each section is good first.  Isolate...isolate...isolate.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 05, 2017, 08:16:53 PM
Here is pic of the front side
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 05, 2017, 08:17:49 PM
Here is the back side
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 05, 2017, 08:52:42 PM
OK let me clarify to the best of my abilities.

The t/s switch was attached to the steering column but the wires were not attached to the plastic dash connector.  I was looking at the t/s switch with the blue wire on the left side next to the green wire. There is a bolt between them.  See pic above.

On the right side of the t/s switch as I'm facing it is the e flasher button I push to engage the e flashers.  There are 3 wires.  Blue, white w/red stripe and white w/green stripe.  See pic above.

When did the test, I had battery connected, key in off position, t/s switch attached by 2 screws to steering column and the plastic wire connector not attached  to anything.  I just realized the main dash t/s wires that go through the firewall were disconnected at the first connection inside the engine bay.
I was trying to trace my wires and connections previously.  There are bulbs in front and rear turn signal housing.

OK Randy if I understand the next step is as follows.

Unplug the t/s switch plastic connector from the main dash plastic connector.  This is already done when doing the early test today.

Test the blue t/s signal wire with the previous listed colored wires to check the readings.

Early today I had the t/s switch attached to the steering column and got only 2 readings.  When I removed it from the steering column and totally disconnected it,  I tested the front blue wire on the t/s switch with the wire connectors on the backside is the t/s switch I got more readings.  Now I realized I was totally confused.   

Sorry for all the headaches.  Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 05, 2017, 10:18:36 PM
Ahhh...I now see the disconnect (pun intended).  Forget about the wiring within the turn signal switch on top of the steering column; instead, consider the entire switch a "black box", of which you only see the pins in the connector that mate to the underdash harness.  There may well be additional wires (blue?) within the turn signal switch itself, and that is what is confusing you.  Forget about what's on the back and the front...and only consider the pins on the connector that mates with the underdash harness.  We all know the wires (numbers and colors and positions) on that connector, and they are the inputs and outputs.  With a given input signal, the TS switch should give the proper output signals if the TS switch is working correctly.  That is what we're looking for: only inputs and outputs (along with the position of the lever).

With the connector disconnected from the underdash harness, the TS switch now becomes completely isolated and can be probed for proper operation.  Go back and read my original instructions and see if it now makes a bit more sense.

For those trying to follow along, here's the position of the turn signal switch connector, as seen looking at the underdash harness side.  The TS switch side will be a mirror image.  This is the standard arrangement for 69-72 Mustangs and the 68 Mercury.

Outside row, left to right:
blue 44                     turn signal flasher input signal
orange/blue 5          right side rear turn and brake output
green/red   9           left side rear turn and brake output
white//red  385       e-flasher/4 way input
yellow   460             horn power input

Inside row, left to right:
blank
green   511              brake light input
green/white  3        left front turn signal output
white/blue    2         right front turn signal output
blue/yellow  482     horn output

This test is actually best done with the steering wheel installed, since sometimes the rivets on the back of the switch touch the steering column and get shorted out to ground inadvertently.  I always apply black electrical tape over those rivets as extra protection.  But...for the time being, do the test with the steering wheel off which makes accessing the connector a bit easier.  Let's see if the innies produce the correct outies.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 05, 2017, 11:17:49 PM
I'm glad you confirmed that I'm not crazy...lol.  I will test the wires tomorrow at lunch time.  You show a "blank"  spot on inside row left.  I don't have a blank spot.  On the original t/s switch every hole had a wire. 

I had a light blue.  I will send a picture of the original t/s switch plastic conection.

Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 05, 2017, 11:20:00 PM
Here it is
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 06, 2017, 08:54:38 AM
My schematics for the Mercuries don't indicate what that wire is for.  In later years, it is used as a door-ajar chime signal.  It is not relevant to turn signal operations. 

1968 schematics, as published by Ford, as notoriously incomplete.

I notice you are showing me the turn-signal switch side of the connector.  Theses switches are generic and not specific to any particular Ford model.  Some models have this extra wire, but most models in 1968 did not use it.  I'll bet its mate on the underdash is blank.  If so, just leave that wire alone.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: ruppstang on April 06, 2017, 09:25:59 AM
I test my turn signal switches by having another column that I know the switch works in. I unplug the connector lay the test column on the floor then plug it in and if all works I order a new switch. It is also helpful to take a picture or make a drawing before you remove the wires from the connector.
Hope this helps someone.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 03:28:31 PM
Ok confused again. Here is a pic of my test. I get no reading or change at. The black lead is in the blue wire hole and the red lead is in the grn/white hole. I sampled the other wires and no difference. Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 04:00:07 PM
Ea
Ok confused again. Here is a pic of my test. I get no reading or change at. The black lead is in the blue wire hole and the red lead is in the grn/white hole. I sampled the other wires and no difference. Thanks Mark

Perhaps we can eliminate possibilities:
1.) Earlier you mentioned you have replaced the TS switch, did it come with the curved bulk connector attached or did you install the plastic connector?

2.) Is it a FORD part or "other"?

3.) Did the replacement TS switch have the same color coded wiring and do these wires from each switch match up, going to the same locations (looking at both the switch end of each wire AND each wire where it enters the bulk connector)
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 04:04:16 PM
I used the same connector from the original t/s switch
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 04:05:44 PM
I used the same connector from the original t/s switch

I thought you may have. Undoubtedly, you have one or more of those "too many blue wires" plugged into the wrong spot in the connector.

I think we have a starting point now...
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 04:05:57 PM
All wire color matched except for 1.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 04:11:02 PM
All wire color matched except for 1.

perhaps, but each of those blue wires has a unique function. Without a diagram in front of me, I believe one supplies the HORN 12V power and the other is the TS 12V Accessory(switched with key) <flasher> power. (<flasher> intended to read as the power goes first through the flasher unit before getting to the switch)
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 04:16:05 PM
The upper top left wire was blue and the new t/s switch has it yellow/black. Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 04:19:51 PM
The upper top left wire was blue and the new t/s switch has it yellow/black. Mark

OK, the picture you have provided, is this the NEW switch or an image of original wiring that you took before unplugging them?
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 04:30:51 PM
That's the original t/s switch connector before I removed the wires from it. Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 04:34:18 PM
Here is the new t/s switch, old plastic connector after I inserted the wires into it
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 04:38:51 PM
That's the original t/s switch connector before I removed the wires from it. Mark

Good. I assume you checked to see that each colored wire went to the exact location up top, on the switch. Which wire at the switch end matches up to circuit #44, blue (no stripe) wire that comes from the flasher unit? Check continuity up to the switch (can plug in the switch & use a test lamp AT the switch itself for simplicity) You should see 12V is all is correct
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 04:43:35 PM
Take a picture of BOTH switches, side-by-side, then flip them over and take another picture side-by-side. I think I have an idea.

It will be this evening before I can be back to review with a schematic and a NOS Ford switch and a used Ford original switch but I want to review these before I answer again
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 06, 2017, 07:54:35 PM
Ok confused again. Here is a pic of my test. I get no reading or change at. The black lead is in the blue wire hole and the red lead is in the grn/white hole. I sampled the other wires and no difference. Thanks Mark
The pin that you call being in the blue wire is in the blue/yellow wire (horn output).  The real blue wire should be on the outside curve on the other end.

I don't know how I missed this, but this picture that you posted in reply has the yellow/black and blue wires swapped.  The yellow/black wire should go in the "blank" position that I described above, on the inner curve; the blue on the outer curve.  This probably explains all of your problems.  But before you do that, test the yellow/black wire against all of the others as I earlier described.  If the results don't match, use the blue wire that should (I think) be swapped for it.

Were there specific instructions to put the yellow/black wire in that position?  Based upon your pictures of the actual turn signal, I believe blue should be in that position. 
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15633.0;attach=37256;imagehttp://)
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 06, 2017, 08:05:14 PM
Randy beat me to it since I took too long writing but we came up with the same results.

Looking at a schematic, your images of "before" & "after" it looks to me that your "light blue" wire from your original switch is that "extra" wire that Midlife was referring to, that it goes nowhere on your dash harness (empty hole). Then it looks, from what I can gather out of your images, that all of your original color wires MOSTLY are accounted for except your new TS harness has a light blue wire INSTEAD of a dark blue wire and replaced the light blue wire with that yellow & black tracer. Translation: Unplug the yellow with black tracer from your TS harness and switch it with the light blue wire and get back with the results.

Your TS flasher source IS SUPPOSED to be (using YOUR image) the wire entering the back of the 4-way flasher side of the turn signal switch (not on the TS side of the switch ~don't ask why, it just IS this way) Look again at your picture (first image below) and notice the light blue wire closest to your thumb. THAT is where the TS flasher supply voltage enters this combination switch.

LEGEND of circuit number, wiring colors TYPICALLY used in TS switches 67-up and their function:

#460     YELLOW.            HORN       12V supply
#482     BLUE/YELLOW.   HORN.      Horn(s) Feed
#385     WHITE/RED.       4-way flasher supply (12V constant feed THROUGH the 4-way flasher unit)
# 44      DARK BLUE.        Turn signal supply (12V switched feed from ignition switch THROUGH TS flasher unit)
#511     GREEN               Brake lamp feed from the brake lamp switch
#.  2      WHITE/BLUE.     Right front signal lamp feed (note: #49 typically tied in at harness for indicator lamp)
#.  3      GREEN/WHITE.   Left front signal lamp feed (note: #50 typically tied in at harness for indicator lamp)
#.  5      ORANGE/BLUE.   Right rear signal lamp & brake lamp
#.  9.     GREEN/ORANGE  Left rear signal lamp & brake lamp

We might see another odd wire, such as my 67 has a red wire running down the switch for no reason, but these "extra wires typically dead-end into an empty cavity of the under dash harness.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 09:42:47 PM
Ok here is 2 pics of the t/s switch and the under dash connector. I put a piece of paper between the wires to help separate them. Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 06, 2017, 11:38:52 PM
Wow "Thanks"  for all the help and patience Randy and Richard in helping me resolve this issue.  My head is really swimming right now.  Hopefully I'm not over thinking this.

There were no instructions that came with the new t/s switch.  I made a diagram of both connector ends wires and locations.  Also took pictures.

When I went to insert the t/s switch wires to the connector and put them back in the same sequence.  The yellow/black wire didn't match so I put it
in the only empty slot.

I will test the yellow/black on the t/s switch connector against the other wires.  If there is no readings should I then move it to the blank spot?

Do the same test using the blue wire that is in the blank spot?

Then move the blue wire from the blank spot to the left top corner spot.

Thanks Mark     
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 07, 2017, 08:38:32 AM
That should do it.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 07, 2017, 03:32:32 PM
Ok. I tested the yellow/black wire to all other wires on the t/s switch connector and no readings.

Then I tested the blue wire directly under it and got the following.

T/s lever in neutral position

Green .4, orange/blue .3, green/orange.4

Lever down position - green/white .3, green/orange .3

Lever up position - white/blue .4, orange/blue .4

Brakes - green/red .2, orange/blue .2

All other wires didn't show any reading during each test should I switch the yellow/black wire with the blue wire?

Thanks Mark
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 07, 2017, 09:05:30 PM
Perfect readings.  Switch the blue and yellow/black wires and you should be in business.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 07, 2017, 10:29:02 PM
JACK POT!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.  It is so great to see turn signals blink.  Also the emergency lights flash.  I couldn't have done it without the guidance of Randy, Richard and other members.

Now to tackle the 2 new problems involving the turn signals.

1.  The t/s switch lever goes into the down position as you expect.  Pushing it to the up position is difficult.  It feels like your going to break it.  Then when it goes down to the neutral position it still blinks.  I just wiggle it a little to find the right spot then it goes off.  Any ideas on how to correct this?

2.  3 out of 4 turn signal lights work.  The right front does not blink.  I checked the bulb and looks good to go.  It is a dual type of bulb.  It is really hard to get into the socket.  The front park lamps has 2 bulbs.  The lower bulb comes on with the running lights and stays on with the headlights.  The top bulb comes on with the running lights and goes out when the headlights come on.  It also functions as the turn signal light.  So I know the bulb works when I turn on the running lights so why not the turn signal light.  Thanks Mark 

 

 
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: midlife on April 07, 2017, 10:42:27 PM
1.  Can't help you here.
2. Does that bulb flash when you use the e-flasher?  Have you checked the socket tabs to ensure they are making contact with the bulb? 

With the bulb out, you can probe it with your DVM on 20VDC and see if you get the 12V on/off while turn signal is active.  If not, you have a problem with wiring up front somewhere.
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 08, 2017, 05:48:14 AM
JACK POT!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.  It is so great to see turn signals blink.  Also the emergency lights flash.  I couldn't have done it without the guidance of Randy, Richard and other members.

Now to tackle the 2 new problems involving the turn signals.

1.  The t/s switch lever goes into the down position as you expect.  Pushing it to the up position is difficult.  It feels like your going to break it.  Then when it goes down to the neutral position it still blinks.  I just wiggle it a little to find the right spot then it goes off.  Any ideas on how to correct this?

2.  3 out of 4 turn signal lights work.  The right front does not blink.  I checked the bulb and looks good to go.  It is a dual type of bulb.  It is really hard to get into the socket.  The front park lamps has 2 bulbs.  The lower bulb comes on with the running lights and stays on with the headlights.  The top bulb comes on with the running lights and goes out when the headlights come on.  It also functions as the turn signal light.  So I know the bulb works when I turn on the running lights so why not the turn signal light.  Thanks Mark 

 

 

If you have a generic TS switch  (not Ford) could cause the problem for fitment. Does the TS switch work normally when it is NOT screwed into the column?
The TILT COLUMN switches have that mechanism the turn stalk (chrome handle) screws into, it needs to move freely or things may bind up. Try loosening the screws if the switch is already mounted and try again. This isn't a "fix", just trying to determine what may be binding up the switch.

Another possibility is if you ever shorted out the switch with "live" current, it could be possible the switch melted internally. (I hope not, but it is possible) A little thing we "electrical/electronics people" say about how these things work is that everything electrical works on "smoke", if for any reason the "smoke" ever leaks out, it ruins them. :D PS: You do not need to witness the "smoke" for this statement to be true ;)




Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on April 30, 2017, 11:52:53 PM
Hey Everyone,

Sorry for the slow response in getting back with you.  I had to move the car to another location and have been working on the brakes.  With it being in a junk yard since 1984 everything needs lots of work.

I did try and figure out why all the lights work except for the front right turn signal.  Once I removed the battery, the vertical plate that holds the voltage regulator I ran into another large metal framing plate.  Behind this plate is the right headlight, running and turn signal wires and connectors.   I can barely see the wires and connectors but did find the problem I believe.

The wires from the dash that go through the firewall and engine bay to the right turn signal connector has 2 wires cut.  One appears to be black and the other blue with yellow stripe.  I couldn't find the other ends of the wires.  The framing metal plate complicates everything.  I proceeded to remove the turn signal housing, grille and front headlights to get a better view and access to fix the problem.  I can not remove the large framing plate.

Midlife (Randy) was on the right track with wiring problems up front.  Not sure why someone cut the wires or possible mice.  I will keep everyone updated when I get to the point of access and slicing the wire back together.

Thanks Mark       
Title: Re: Turn Signals Do Not Work
Post by: 69mustang73mach1 on May 22, 2017, 12:12:26 AM
Finally success.  I had a chance today to work on the front right turn signal wiring.  I got all lights to work except for this. It looked like someone has sliced the wires.  Possibly mice after being in a junk yard for over 30 years. I reattached the wires and the turn signal worked just fine.  A true day of satisfaction with the help of many mustangers here.  Thanks to all.

Now the next several electrical challenges are as follows.

1. Alternator not charging.  Replaced with a working one but no change.  I found a cut ground wire from the block to the alternator and some loose connections on the backside of the alternator.  Next on the priority list.

2.  It has power windows.  Removed the window motors and looking for replacements.  The windows were all done and the convertible top has been long gone. 

3.  Convertible top motor.  I have the metal top frame and the motor but that's it.

Stay tune on troubleshooting them on a new thread in the near future.  I really appreciate all the feedback.

Mark