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1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: Brian Conway on March 24, 2017, 01:15:14 AM

Title: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Brian Conway on March 24, 2017, 01:15:14 AM
The trans bell housing and engine were what color for a September 19, 1968 Metuchen 428 Mach 1 ?  Thanks  Brian
Title: Re: Paint Color ?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 24, 2017, 01:35:20 AM
The trans bell housing and engine were what color for a September 19, 1968 Metuchen 428 Mach 1 ?  Thanks  Brian
FYI regardless of assembly plant the FE engines were painted at the Dearborn engine plant. With that said the bare cast iron bellhousing was bolted to the engine block before painting of the engine block. There is typically about a inch of heavy paint fading out to nothing after about 5 or 6 inches . It varied .There could be a little more or a little less depending on the person that was holding the gun. I have not observed any paint on the clutch inspection cover which seems to indicate it was added after.
Title: Re: Paint Color ?
Post by: Brian Conway on March 24, 2017, 11:57:36 AM
OK so Ford Blue on the block.  Bell housing Ford Blue along the mounting perimeter.  Inspection cover natural.  The transmission ?
Title: Re: Paint Color ?
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 24, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
OK so Ford Blue on the block.  Bell housing Ford Blue along the mounting perimeter.  Inspection cover natural.  The transmission ?
Brian, the transmission wasn't painted . It would be bare natural metal finishes.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans
Post by: J_Speegle on March 24, 2017, 02:06:39 PM
Changed the title so it reflected the engine and transmission the OP was discussing ;)
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Brian Conway on March 24, 2017, 09:24:39 PM
Great.  Thanks for sharing.  Brian
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Raven R Code on March 27, 2017, 11:58:41 PM
Hey Brian,
My 4 spd is bare cast with some yellow numbers stamped on the casing. The numbers in yellow appear to be a fancy script font style.  11k on the car and rustfree.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on March 28, 2017, 12:06:39 AM
Hey Brian,
My 4 spd is bare cast with some yellow numbers stamped on the casing. The numbers in yellow appear to be a fancy script font style.  11k on the car and rustfree.

Would help if we knew where and when your car was built.

Have never found stamped numbers on a bellhousing - would be interesting in hearing the details and a picture
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Bob Gaines on March 28, 2017, 01:11:07 AM
Would help if we knew where and when your car was built.

Have never found stamped numbers on a bellhousing - would be interesting in hearing the details and a picture
Jeff, I believe he is referring to the 4 sp transmission case. I have never seen stamped numbers on bellhousing ether.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on March 28, 2017, 01:18:32 AM
Jeff, I believe he is referring to the 4 sp transmission case. I have never seen stamped numbers on bellhousing ether.

Thought cross my mind but got to taken them as their written   :)  Sure he will clarify - didn't want to assume but would not surprise me for someone to decode the transmission stamp as numbers rather than letters
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Raven R Code on April 15, 2017, 10:45:28 PM
Thought cross my mind but got to taken them as their written   :)  Sure he will clarify - didn't want to assume but would not surprise me for someone to decode the transmission stamp as numbers rather than letters

The yellows markings are on there tranny case, not the bell housing.

Will get pictures.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 15, 2017, 11:07:25 PM
The yellows markings are on there tranny case, not the bell housing.

Will get pictures.

Understood.  Would expect the identifier stamp, assembler stamp a bunch of different color hand written codes a locator for the speedo cable attachment point and others
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: 69390IPSHAKER on April 17, 2017, 01:37:07 PM
I just finished the rebuild of my original 390. I would agree with the statements above. I presume most all the details on the BB engine would be similar.

Mine had over spray on the bell housing on both sides pretty heavy and drips running down it.
Also did not have the inspection cover at bottom on it when painted, Mine had blue paint all over the flywheel and part of the pressure plate.

Also the partial Vin is stamped into the trans case at the top. Same number stamped on the LH back cylinder head of engine.  I have not seen one stamped in the bell housing as of yet.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 17, 2017, 02:30:42 PM
I just finished the rebuild of my original 390. I would agree with the statements above. I presume most all the details on the BB engine would be similar.

Mine had over spray on the bell housing on both sides pretty heavy and drips running down it.
Also did not have the inspection cover at bottom on it when painted, Mine had blue paint all over the flywheel and part of the pressure plate.

Also the partial Vin is stamped into the trans case at the top. Same number stamped on the LH back cylinder head of engine.  I have not seen one stamped in the bell housing as of yet.
Curious if you have any indication that the exhaust manifolds on your engine were oversprayed painted originally . The reason why I am asking because unlike the small block where we have evidence of the exhaust being on when engine was painted and Ford written instructions to do so,the FE engine seems to be different. The survivor cars (trucks ,passenger cars ) and picture evidence seems to give a strong indication that the FE exhaust manifolds were added later.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 17, 2017, 03:04:54 PM
Also the partial Vin is stamped into the trans case at the top. Same number stamped on the LH back cylinder head of engine.  I have not seen one stamped in the bell housing as of yet.

Interested in knowing where the car was built and the month. Thanks
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Raven R Code on April 22, 2017, 10:04:14 PM
Here is a picture of what appears to be a script "13"
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 22, 2017, 10:36:52 PM
Here is a picture of what appears to be a script "13"

Yes - believe this was the number of the guy that put together than transmission. Its an unusual font that was used for just that mark
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Raven R Code on April 22, 2017, 11:00:58 PM
One more mark....on the bottom. Has a little flash glare.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 07, 2023, 06:56:02 PM
Hey Brian,
My 4 spd is bare cast with some yellow numbers stamped on the casing. The numbers in yellow appear to be a fancy script font style.  11k on the car and rustfree.

Hi Jr I am restoring a 1968 GT 390. Would love to get a few reference photos from you if that is possible. Thanks
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 07, 2023, 07:14:17 PM
Hi Jr I am restoring a 1968 GT 390. Would love to get a few reference photos from you if that is possible. Thanks


I've got a fair number of examples of original manual top loader transmissions. Shared the general/commonly found ones in the article in the Library on this site if you haven't noticed it.  Thread and the poster took a slight side trip to transmission markings from the original bell housing focus of the thread originally

BTW the poster that your asking hasn't been on the site since 2019  ::)
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 07, 2023, 07:37:27 PM
Ok thanks Jeff. Would really like to see a few photos as I am painting the bell housing now as I did not paint it on the motor, but will try to simulate. I was surprised at how little paint actually was applied to the bell housing. I tried searching the Library but did not find a good bell housing photo.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 07, 2023, 11:10:38 PM
Ok thanks Jeff. Would really like to see a few photos as I am painting the bell housing now as I did not paint it on the motor, but will try to simulate. I was surprised at how little paint actually was applied to the bell housing. I tried searching the Library but did not find a good bell housing photo.
Basically approximately 3 inch section around the perimeter where it bolts to the block. It was heavy engine paint color (because it was bolted to the block being painted) that feathered out to nothing. Of course that is a most common appearance because it could vary depending on painter and other circumstances at the time of painting.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 08, 2023, 12:15:24 AM
Thanks Bob I will follow that procedure and see how it turns out.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 08, 2023, 04:09:52 PM
Thanks Bob I will follow that procedure and see how it turns out.

Hi Bob. FYI I painted my bell housing and posted photos in my build thread, but also posting here since we are referencing the subject here as well and might be helpful for others asking the same question. Also curious about the blue & white paint daub marks on the bell housing posted on page one of this thread. I have not seen them before, so not sure if that is applicable to my car.

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/4775-080423150309-1853141.jpeg)

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/4775-080423150309-185301870.jpeg)

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/4775-080423150309-18529567.jpeg)
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 08, 2023, 07:52:08 PM
OK thanks Jeff. Would really like to see a few photos as I am painting the bell housing now as I did not paint it on the motor, but will try to simulate. I was surprised at how little paint actually was applied to the bell housing. I tried searching the Library but did not find a good bell housing photo.

Don't have any original examples from a 428 CJ but from other Fe's they had allot of paint likely due to the high pressure and flow guns used at the time very unlike to days paint guns. So IMHO would go wide and will allot more "soft"/thin overspray on much of the bellhousing with shadows in those surfaces point downward and rearward, base don the ones I've seen. You will notice this on the upper left example below more than the lower right example

Of course ANY cleaning or scrubbing to other examples would remove this lighter spray reducing the painted area on those examples

Couple of examples and its pretty clear that these have not been repainted since the original crayon markings are still evident

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-080423185149-18534345.jpeg)
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: preaction on April 08, 2023, 09:47:52 PM
Jeff, are the time frame known for the 2 above pictured bell housings ?
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: Bob Gaines on April 08, 2023, 10:06:27 PM
Hi Bob. FYI I painted my bell housing and posted photos in my build thread, but also posting here since we are referencing the subject here as well and might be helpful for others asking the same question. Also curious about the blue & white paint daub marks on the bell housing posted on page one of this thread. I have not seen them before, so not sure if that is applicable to my car.

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/4775-080423150309-1853141.jpeg)

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/4775-080423150309-185301870.jpeg)

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/4775-080423150309-18529567.jpeg)
Good job. It looks most typical.
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 08, 2023, 10:26:06 PM
Thanks Bob & thanks for the advice
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 08, 2023, 10:28:02 PM
Jeff, are the time frame known for the 2 above pictured bell housings ?

The left upper one was identified as coming from a  67. The other was not identified, may have been in an ad, so can't be certain though the OK marking looks very similar to the other. Will have to take the time to see if I have additional examples. These two were saved and located in the sub directory because of the paint marking rather than the overspray
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 08, 2023, 10:30:06 PM
Don't have any original examples from a 428 CJ but from other Fe's they had allot of paint likely due to the high pressure and flow guns used at the time very unlike to days paint guns. So IMHO would go wide and will allot more "soft"/thin overspray on much of the bellhousing with shadows in those surfaces point downward and rearward, base don the ones I've seen. You will notice this on the upper left example below more than the lower right example

Of course ANY cleaning or scrubbing to other examples would remove this lighter spray reducing the painted area on those examples

Couple of examples and its pretty clear that these have not been repainted since the original crayon markings are still evident

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-080423185149-18534345.jpeg)

Thanks Jeff. That is a lot of paint. It actually looks like they were trying to paint the entire bell housing deliberately as opposed to just some overspray from painting the motor. Should all bell housings from my year and application have "OK" Crayon marks, or was that standard procedure on all bell housings?

Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 08, 2023, 10:42:26 PM
Thanks Jeff. That is a lot of paint. It actually looks like they were trying to paint the entire bell housing deliberately as opposed to just some overspray from painting the motor. Should all bell housings from my year and application have "OK" Crayon marks, or was that standard procedure on all bell housings?

Yes the spray pattern from the guns at that time were 10 or 12" wide so not well focused application. You can see, in the pictures of workers painting the engines there was plenty of paint.

As for the OK on manual transmission bell housings. This is something I documented through 1970 production. For all that will read this post the style, color, location and other details differs depending on the engine plant so don't just blindly apply these without full consideration of when and where the engine was assembled. This was done at the engine plant not the car plant.

In the example in the upper left what appears to be a number or part of a number I believe was a car plant applied detail not related to the OK nor the engine plant
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 08, 2023, 10:47:26 PM
Thanks Jeff. So is it safe to assume that the motor was shipped separately from the transmission or was it all one assembly?
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 08, 2023, 11:41:47 PM
Thanks Jeff. So is it safe to assume that the motor was shipped separately from the transmission or was it all one assembly?

For manual transmission engines they had the engine, engine plate, flywheel, clutch assembly and bell housings in place when painted, The engines were then dressed for the application that matched the aluminum and paper ID tags and they were shipped that way. transmissions were attached at the car plant. They came from another plant to the car plants.  For other engines they ended up in crates as replacement/over the counter purchases. 

We have a fair number of assemblies showing just this from multiple years. You'll find them in different threads through out the site. Below is a picture of an engine (428 CJ automatic application) to give an idea of how they looked when shipped and arrived at the car plant


(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-080423224127-185362324.jpeg)


Automatics would have the engine plat and automatic flywheels attached when painted so no engine blue on transmission






Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 09, 2023, 12:04:46 AM
Thanks Jeff I have not seen any assembly plant photos of the website, but would love to reference them
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: J_Speegle on April 09, 2023, 05:41:00 AM
Thanks Jeff I have not seen any assembly plant photos of the website, but would love to reference them

General pictures of car assembly plants of the time as well as supplying plants such as Cleveland and others can be found in the main section titled
The Assembly Line - Discussions related to assembly line practices and observations - Members Only Viewing


There are almost 400 threads with pictures and sometimes links to films related to the main subject. Included in that section is a number of very difficult to find San Jose plant pictures from 68 that we purchased from the official photographer of the San Jose plant for Ford in the 60's. We didn't get a ton of them nor were their many available but we got all that related to the production of Mustangs and in turn Cougars. 
Title: Re: Paint Color ? 428 CJ Manual Trans Bellhousing
Post by: bullitt68 on April 09, 2023, 03:57:24 PM
General pictures of car assembly plants of the time as well as supplying plants such as Cleveland and others can be found in the main section titled
The Assembly Line - Discussions related to assembly line practices and observations - Members Only Viewing


There are almost 400 threads with pictures and sometimes links to films related to the main subject. Included in that section is a number of very difficult to find San Jose plant pictures from 68 that we purchased from the official photographer of the San Jose plant for Ford in the 60's. We didn't get a ton of them nor were their many available but we got all that related to the production of Mustangs and in turn Cougars. 

Thanks Jeff that is great information I will check it out