Author Topic: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?  (Read 300 times)

Offline Deuce

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Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« on: April 08, 2017, 11:14:08 AM »
Have read that 67-68 fog lamps, normally factory-installed as part of the GT option, were available in a kit from Ford and could be installed as a dealer option (or presumably purchased over the counter and installed by the car owner).

Is this information correct and if so, there is a part number for the kit? 
Deuce
1967 C-code vinyl Hardtop, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; San Jose Nov 30 1966, DSO 71
2008 Premium GT Coupe, Nov 2007 build

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 03:30:56 PM »
Believe that if they were available (someone will look through the option catalogs) they would not look like the grill lights but be actual fog lights and be generic to all Ford products and like the ones you would buy at the corner parts store. Likely just repackaged like so many other accessories of the time period
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 07:26:39 PM »
Have read that 67-68 fog lamps, normally factory-installed as part of the GT option, were available in a kit from Ford and could be installed as a dealer option (or presumably purchased over the counter and installed by the car owner).

Is this information correct and if so, there is a part number for the kit? 

Short answer : No... and Yes ; and Yes

Before giving you a detailed description of this "two-faced" answer, a "short course" on nomenclature is in order. "OPTIONS", at least in my opinion, are items which could be added to the "Base Car" at the time of ordering, and installed (or sometimes just furnished ) by the Factory. These would typically include items like the "GT Option", Deluxe Interior Option, V8 Option, Automatic Transmission Option, Power Steering Option, etc. (for a complete list of Factory Options for 1966 and 1967, see attachments #1-4).  "ACCESSORIES" are items which could be purchased from the Dealers' Parts Departments by the Owner, and either installed by the Dealer or by the Owner or his/her "mechanic of choice". Where some confusion enters is that many times, items such as Power Steering setups, were available as an "Accessory Kit", and the Dealer, recognizing that it would make more money if it installed the Accessory Kit, as opposed to the Factory; also, an Owner may want to add Floor Mats, different Wheel Covers, etc. that were available as Accessories, at the time of Purchase of the car. In both of these cases, many times you will see these noted as "Dealer Options". Again, in my opinion, this is incorrect; to me, these actually are "Dealer Installed Accessories". This is actually made more noticeable by the fact that in 1966, with so many Accessories being available, and to avoid confusion, Ford moved the "Accessories Items" to their own separate Section at the front of the "Parts and Accessories Catalogs" (MPC's). This was also the case for 1967 and the 1960-68 MPC. Previously, the accessories were intermixed with other appropriate Part Numbers.

All that being said, now for the "Detailed Description" of your question. The answer is "No" if you are referring to a setup exactly like that for the GT's - Fog Lights in the Grill on Grill Bars, etc. However, Ford promoted "Making your Mustang into a GT" (see attachment #5) for 1965 and 66 Mustangs, but this was encouraging Owners to purchase the Service Parts available from the Dealers for replacement parts to the Factory GT setups, and install these on your non-GT car. There was no Accessory Kit available for doing this.

Now, if you are referring to "Fog Lamps" that could be mounted in places other than in the grill like the GT's, the answer is "Yes". Although Ford actually marketed these as "Road Lamps" that were available with either "clear" (Driving Lamp) bulbs, or "amber" (Fog Lamp) bulbs.

The earliest references that I have been able to find on these are in the April 1966 issue of the Ford Parts & Merchandising News (attachment # 6) and in the Ford Parts and Service Marketing April 1966 Action Guide (attachment # 7). This Accessory Kit does not appear in either the 1965 or the 1966 Accessory Catalogs, nor in the 1965 or 1966 individual Parts and Accessories Catalogs (MPC's), each dated January of their respective year. It does finally show up in the 1967 Accessory Catalog (as well as the 1968 Accessory Catalog - see attachments # 8 and # 9 ; -- note that accessory catalogs usually were available at Model year introduction), and in the December 1966 Ford Suggested List Price book. Therefore, based on the foregoing, one could conclude that the Road Lamp Kit was possibly available sometime between January and April of 1966, but more likely during or after April of 1966 as that is when the advertising of it was scheduled .to occur. Interestingly, even though this kit was issued in the early part of the second half of the 1966 Model Year, it came with a 1965 Rotunda Part # ; C5RZ-19B532-A (with clear bulb) and C5RZ-19B532-B (with amber bulb). The contents of these kits is shown in attachment # 10.  Another point of interest here, is that the lamp assemblies (C5RZ-15200-A/B) shown in the contents of the kits were not shown separately in either the Suggested Price List of December 1966, nor in the 1967 Ford Parts and Accessories Catalog, dated January 1967. The first indication that I personally have as to their availability as Service Parts, is in the 1960-68 MPC, the specific page is dated June 1968. Based on this, the best I can say is that they became available sometime between January 1967 and June of 1968.

The Kits (C5RZ-19B532-A/B) were noted "RB" (Replaced By) C5AZ-19B532-A/B in the July 1969 OSI (Obsolete-Superseded-Interchange book), and these in turn are shown as "NR" (Not Replaced) in the January 1972 OSI. (I have seen the contents of the C5AZ Kits, and the only difference between it and my C5RZ Kit is that the C5AZ Kit only has two Instruction Sheets, both Copyrighted 1967 - having eliminated sheets 3 and 4 which included the mounting templates. All four of the C5RZ Instruction Sheets are Copyrighted 1966).
The Lamp Assemblies (C5RZ-15200-A/B) appear to have had a very long life. I finally found that the C5RZ-15200-B (amber) assembly is shown as "NR" in the 1990 OSI. As the prior OSI book that I have is 1987, I can only say that sometime between 1987 and 1990, it was "Not Replaced". The C5RZ-15200-A (clear) assembly has presented more of a problem in trying to track down its "fate". After looking in all of the OSI's that I have (1965, 66, 67,68, 69, 72, 74, 76, 77, 79, 81, 83, 87, and 1990), I could not find anywhere the disposition of this Part. Thus, I must conclude that it was available until some time after 1990.

I have listed the above information in regard to the disposition of the Road Lamp Kits and some of their parts, in order to present a scenario. Back in 1976, when I purchased my first Mustang, I wanted to make it "different" than "just another Coupe (notchback)". The unibody was in great shape and the car ran and drove well, but, at least at the time, it was "just another Coupe". I knew that I didn't want to make it into a "GT clone", but liked the "Fog Light look". In checking through my literature, I found that the Road Lamp Kit was an Accessory. Off to my Ford Parts Manager with whom I had dealt since 1962. He of course advised me that the Kits were no longer available. However, he noted that I could still buy most all pieces of the Kit as "Service Parts" and, in essence, put together my own "Kit". I opted for the amber lamp assemblies, and was also able to get the correct switch with its harness and its mounting bracket. Unfortunately, the harness from the switch harness to the lamp assemblies and the bumper mounting brackets was no longer available. The harness from the switch to the lamps of course was no problem to come up with something that would work. The bracket, however, presented a problem In trying to keep as "original Ford" as possible, I did not want to go with "aftermarket" fog light mounting brackets, particularly not knowing what the originals looked like. I also didn't want to mount the lamp assemblies in a manner which might prove hard or expensive to return to original should I come across the correct brackets in the future. Based on this, I decided not to drill holes in the bumper, nor in the splash pan. Instead, I decided to take advantage of existing holes in the Lower Radiator Grill Bar, and drill holes in the right and left lower Radiator Grill Opening Moldings (see attachment # 11).
All of this occurred in the Suburb of St. Louis that I grew up in. In 1979, I took on a new job and moved to Omaha. One of the first things I did was to find a "friendly" Ford Dealer. I found out that one (which also just happened to be the closest) was known to be accommodating to "old car people". After getting to know them well for about a year, I brought up about the Lamp Brackets. They happened to be on a "Dealer Network" (which was pretty unusual for 1980), and checked for the bracket. They found just one out of all of the Dealers on the network across the country. But at least I'd have one and know what to look for in Hemmings or at Swap Meets. And boy was I glad that I had one known original bracket ; I must say, I had never seen one like it. While the top, "swivel piece" with the slot was similar to many aftermarket brackets that I had seen (although the steel was actually a little thicker), the base of the bracket with the stud attached for mounting, was unlike any that I had seen. It is a solid steel piece, machined flat on the two sides, with a stud out the bottom, and a horizontal hole at the top for the bolt that holds the "swivel piece", and all chrome plated (see pictures in last group of attachments). It took about 7 or 8 years, but I finally found a second bracket at a Swap Meet. Interestingly, a few years later, in the late 80's-early 90's, I finally found a NOS Kit that was complete, except for, you guessed it, the Brackets.

I have "bent your ear" with this "personal history" for two reasons; availability of parts, and cost to your wallet. Since the Kit, C5RZ-19B532-A/B (and its successor, C5AZ-19B532-A/B) were only available for a relatively short period of time (being "obsoleted" in 1972), finding them now is not easy. Yet the individual pieces, which were available for considerably longer (even though the amber Lamp Assemblies were obsoleted  sometime between 1987 and 1990, the clear Lamp Assemblies apparently were available for somewhat longer, and the only differences are the bulbs themselves), at least by 15 years, and thus show up a lot more frequently. Over the last 25 years or so, I have probably seen 5 times as many Lamp Assemblies offered as opposed to the Kits. One other thing that I've noticed is that the majority of Kits that I have seen are, for some reason, missing the Brackets.
As I mentioned, the other reason for the "personal history" is the effect on your wallet. In the last two years, I have seen several NOS Kits for sale on Ebay; one was $1500 and missing the Brackets, another that Sold for $400, and another, which is currently listed as of this writing, is $1300, and includes the Brackets, but no switch. There is also an excellent Used Kit (no Box) that appears complete for $999. On the other hand, I have seen quite a few NOS Lamp Assemblies ranging anywhere from $250 per pair to $500 per pair. There is currently a pair listed on Ebay for $250. So if you're inclined for either.......

Should you decide to "piece together" a set of Road Lamps, I have attached (# 12 and # 13) a list of the parts and Part Numbers needed. If you also want the Brackets, their Part Numbers are listed in the Kit contents previously attached.

To complete this "exercise of longevity", I have attached pictures of the individual Lamp Assemblies (C5RZ-15200-B), and the Kit (C5RZ-19B532-A) and its contents. Following these pictures, I have attached copies of sheets 1-3 of the Ford Installation Instructions. I do not have sheet 4 of 4, but believe that it is for "generic applications", as one must remember that this was a Rotunda (Universal) Kit, "suitable for all makes and models".

A couple of interesting "Final Comments" :

1)  The fluted Trim Ring used on the Lamp Assemblies is identical to those used on the Spotlights.

2)  I have seen one Kit that included both a "Fog" switch and a "Unity Lights" switch.

3)  Based on 2), one would have to say that the Lamp Assemblies, as with the Spotlights, were made for Ford by Unity.

4)  Note that while the Kits are differentiated, both in the Parts Books and on the Box Labels, as "Driving Lamps" and "Fog Lamps", both the Amber and Clear bulbs have "FOG"
    cast into the glass. 


Hope this has helped.

Bob
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 03:34:59 PM by 196667Bob »
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154566, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154966, Actual Build Date 01/31/67

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 07:34:51 PM »
Think all the 66 info may confuse the issue for 67 owners but I figured you would have the 67 fog light advertisement available in your records.

Of course anyone considering adding these will likely need to provide dated information to back up the choice since its a rarely seen and or purchased dealer accessory ;)

I've only seen them attached to the bumper on Mustangs and other Fords
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 07:42:02 PM »
Remaining 7 attachments which were too large for my Posted Reply.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154566, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154966, Actual Build Date 01/31/67

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 02:41:37 PM »
Think all the 66 info may confuse the issue for 67 owners ...

In re-reading my Post of yesterday, I have to agree that the "crux" of the answer to "Deuce's" question is basically "lost" in the excessive verbiage, background, personal and detail information that I provided.
In order to clarify this, I offer the following brief SUMMARY :

1)  Yes, there was an Accessory Driving/ Fog Light Kit available from the Ford Dealers in 1967.

2) This Kit carried Part Number C5RZ-19B532-A for the Driving (clear) bulbs, and Part
    Number C5RZ-19B532-B for the Fog (amber) bulbs, both of which are listed in the
    "1967 Ford Accessories Catalog" as well as in the 1967 only MPC, with "Application"
    shown as for Full size Ford, Fairlane, Mustang, Thunderbird and Falcon.

3)  Although these Kits carry a 1965 Part Number, they were not introduced until at least
     April of 1966.

4)  The Fall 1967 "1968 Ford Accessories Catalog" also shows these same Part Numbers for the 1968 Models.

5)  The Accessories Section of the 1960-68 MPC with the appropriate page dated "June
     1968", lists these same Part Numbers and Model Applications, but expands the years
     to 1960-67.
     Interestingly, for the same Model Applications for 1968, it shows two new Part
    Numbers ; C5AZ-19B532-A (clear), and C5AZ-19B532-B (amber).
    (I have seen the contents of both of these Kits, and the only difference is that the C5AZ
    Kits only have two instruction sheets, both Copyrighted 1967, instead of four, all Copyrighted 1966, having eliminated the templates
).

6)  The C5RZ- Part Numbers are shown as being "Replaced By" the C5AZ- Part Numbers
      in the July 1969 OSI.

7)  Both C5AZ Kits are shown as "NR" (Not Replaced: - made obsolete) in the January
     1972 OSI.
     
 Hopefully, this will help any confusion.

Bob
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 03:09:25 PM by 196667Bob »
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154566, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154966, Actual Build Date 01/31/67

Offline Deuce

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 11:01:59 AM »
Thank you for the history and lots of detail about an Accessory Driving/Fog Light Kit available from Ford Dealers in 1967.  The bumper-mount kit configuration is one I wasn't aware of, and it looks like a grille-mounted kit was not available from Ford.

The research I did before posing the question in the original post could lead one to believe there was a GT-style kit available from Ford back then.  For example, here's an article from ten years ago (September 5, 2007) in Mustang and Fords magazine:  http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/paint-body/mump-0612-ford-mustang-foglights/.  A quote from the article:  "Adding foglights to non-GT Mustangs has been a popular practice since '65, when even Ford encouraged the GT modification by offering accessory foglight kits through Ford dealerships."

As a post script and not to confuse with year 1967 models and available kits, apparently in 1968 there was a factory Mustang Sprint package available in V8 cars which included GT-style grille mounted fog lights.   

Thanks again for the useful information!





Deuce
1967 C-code vinyl Hardtop, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; San Jose Nov 30 1966, DSO 71
2008 Premium GT Coupe, Nov 2007 build

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: Fog Lamps - available dealer option?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 01:59:58 PM »
Deuce : Yes, I see why the Article that you included the link to would make one think that a "GT Kit" was available from Ford Dealers. The sentence in particular that you quoted is both "right and wrong". It is correct that Ford encouraged adding fog lights to non-GT Mustangs since 1965 (as noted in the magazine ad from November of 1965 that I attached in my previous "Article).  And yes, Ford offered accessory fog light kits through Ford Dealerships (also as I described in my previous "Article"). The fallacy of course is that Ford did not offer "GT Fog light Kits" through the Ford Dealers.  As noted in my "Article", Ford's intent in encouraging "making your Mustang into a GT" was to encourage owners to purchase the necessary Service Parts needed to make this "conversion", thus putting together, in essence, an "Owner's Kit" to accomplish this (much as "GT Cloners" do today).

As far as your "post script" on the '68 Sprint Package, as you noted, this was a "factory package (Option), just as the "GT Package" was a Factory Option. And, as noted at the beginning of my "Article", "Options" and "Accessories" are two different "ball games". Of course, just like the "GT" parts, there was nothing keeping an Owner from purchasing the necessary Service Parts in order to make his/her Mustang into a Sprint.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154566, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154966, Actual Build Date 01/31/67