Author Topic: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment  (Read 1913 times)

Offline Ralf

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Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« on: September 19, 2017, 08:15:15 AM »
Hi,
Did some search.....but...

My 67 SJ car has the TS Hood, but no FORD letters on. May be by purpose due to repro part (do not have the holes), or simply due to visual aspects (after re-painting).

Nevertheless, found this:

"Can anyone give a definitive on 67 SJ having the FORD letters on the hood I am thinking they were installed but I am following Motor books Workshop Mustang Restoration by Tom Corcoran and Earl Davies.
It states in the exterior section that Mustang was now a strong identity with Ford and hence the letters were not used as hood trim"

My questions:
- statement above true?

If not and all 67 had FORD lettering on the hood (as this was my search result) - what would be the best option to attach:
- stick on letters? What would be the best source/supplier? Even stick on NOS (service part) available?
- pin letters with nuts (here the holes have to be drilled, eventually rust later on). Not sure if this would work out perfectly (a template would be needed, source?) What would be the best source/supplier here as well? NOS (service part) available?

Is there a measurement (photos, scetches) available, that shows up the precise FORD letter positioning (measure letter to letter, measure hood leading edge to letter). Anything available? Saw some photos with tape measuring, but not precise enough. Expl: http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/paint-body/28798/photo-10.html
If pins, are these the correct barrel nuts ? https://www.amkproducts.com/bulk3.asp?part=B-12924

My personal solution would be to use stick on letters (not concours, but not visible at all and "easy assembling") to avoid drilling holes and at the end of the day, pins and letters will not fit (like children draw their first letters on a piece of paper)

However, to do the work I would need a quite good measurement. Someone to support?

EDIT:

Have seen many 67 cars in the internet with and without FORD letters (rate 50:50)

Thx
Ralf
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 10:54:37 AM by Ralf »
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, Built Nov 30 1966, SJ, DSO75.
Pictures: https://mustang-cabrio-67.jimdo.com/mustang-1967-impressionen

Offline ruppstang

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 08:47:35 AM »
IMHO the statement is wrong. Every SJ Mustang I have had and seen if original has the hood letters. They were often lost due to hood replacement. I would use the pin type and have used a original hood to make a template.
Marty

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 09:23:39 AM »
IMHO the statement is wrong. Every SJ Mustang I have had and seen if original has the hood letters. They were often lost due to hood replacement. I would use the pin type and have used a original hood to make a template.
Marty
+1, I made a right side template and a left side template made out of a new sheet metal strip which I clamped, placing a straight edge of the metal section aligned to the bottom edge of the hood(s), onto the outside of a donor hood skin (an original 67 'hood skin only', not a complete hood) and then I drilled the holes though from the inside of the old skin's holes, right onto the new metal patch to make each template. I then test-fit each OE Ford letter (reproduction ones do not fit good at all), making sure the letters fit loosely in the holes as the originals do without the barrel nuts and made sure they all looked straight in the templates. Some of the holes were off ever-so slightly (though the letters did drop right in) so I egged-out the holes as needed and then I pencil-marked the side of the hole to drill into the new hood at. Next steps, I inserted an 1/8" rivet into each 1/8"hole I drilled as I went along, I did not "pop" these rivets (though I suppose you could and then drill them out), I did this so the template did not move around as a proceeded to each remaining hole. First try on the replacement hood and everything was perfect. IMHO, There is NO WAY to get a measurement 100% correctly transferred onto a replacement hood without some sort of STEEL template.

I realize you do not have a donor hood (and you are in Germany, so a bit difficult to obtain) but any other sort of alignment is sure to fail to some extent. Even using this method, a person has to be extremely careful because the pins are VERY 'unforgiving' when it comes to getting a good alignment.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 10:15:16 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Ralf

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 09:55:36 AM »
May be there is a possibility to prepare a two piece card board/foil template (left and right side), which can be shipped overseas?
Just as an idea, not having an original hood for preparation a template here in GER.
My hood has already been painted, so I need to avoid scratches as well.

As I can read, pin letters are prefered before using stick on stuff.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 10:19:47 AM by Ralf »
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, Built Nov 30 1966, SJ, DSO75.
Pictures: https://mustang-cabrio-67.jimdo.com/mustang-1967-impressionen

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 10:17:59 AM »
May be there is a possibility to prepare a two piece card board/foil template (left and right side), which can be shipped overseas?
Just as an idea, not having an original hood for preparation a template here in GER.
My hood has already already been painted, so I need to avoid scratches as well.

As I can read, pin letters are prefered before using stick on stuff.

In my opinion, anything less than metal template is asking for trouble. Maybe others have suggestions along what might work best given your location and "painted" situation.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Fastback2013

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 09:00:06 AM »
Hello Ralf,

Belgium isn't that far from Germany ;D
PM me and we can discuss how the template will get to you.

Kind regards,
Jeroen
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 09:06:43 AM by Fastback2013 »
San Jose 7R02C1708xx
Fastback GTA
built on 01/12/1967

Offline Ralf

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 12:41:51 PM »
Hello Jeroen,
Pn sent.
Thx a lot.
Ralf


Edit:
Just bought a NOS set of FORD letters.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 04:20:45 PM by Ralf »
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, Built Nov 30 1966, SJ, DSO75.
Pictures: https://mustang-cabrio-67.jimdo.com/mustang-1967-impressionen

Online 196667Bob

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 06:49:35 PM »
Ralf : IMO, you either have a “Repo Hood”, “Service Replacement Hood” or a 1968 Hood. As far as I know, all 1967 non-Shelby Hoods, from all plants had the FORD letters on the hoods; however, for 1968, the FORD letters were eliminated from all models at all plants.

As an ‘aside’ here, for 1967, the ‘Turn Signal Hood” was only available with the “Exterior Décor” Option, and in 1968 it was available as a “stand alone” Option. Thus, 1968 “Turn Signal Hoods” were, and are most likely easier to come by. Unfortunately though, there are no easy provisions for adding the “FORD” letters (at least until sometime after 1975 when the “stick-on” letters became service parts for ‘67’s).

Sometime between 1968 and 1974, Ford decided that only one Service Part was needed for both 1967 and 1968 Turn Signal Hoods. While I don’t have any documentation (if anyone does, please “chime in”), but I would assume (?) that the Service Part “Turn Signal Hood” offered by Ford for both 1967 and 1968 Mustangs was actually a 1968 hood. I say this because it would seem much more plausible for installers to drill holes for the “FORD” letters for 1967’s rather than fill holes to make it correct for a 1968. If this was, in fact, the case, it would seem odd that a template was not furnished with the replacement hood by which the holes could be drilled for the 1967 “FORD” letters. However, I have never heard of, nor seen one. If no template was furnished, then I also would “guess” that most, if not all, were replaced without having the “FORD” letters (at least before the time when the “stick-on” letters were available).

All of the above being said, and “borrowing” a phrase from an old  Popular Science magazine series of articles, “It Worked for Me”, here is how I “attacked” the addition of the “FORD” letters.
My ’67 did not originally have the “Turn Signal Hood”, but I always liked this Option and wanted to add it to my Mustang. As noted above, in order to have this Option in 1967, one had to have the Exterior Décor Option. While my car was not ordered with the Exterior Décor Option (as confirmed by my Marti Report), I did want to at least make it somewhat correct by not just having the “Turn Signal Hood”, but the complete Exterior Décor Option, I started to “assemble” all of the pieces in the early 80’s. The Wheel Lip Moldings, Rear Deck and Rear Quarter Moldings were easy, as they were still available from Ford. The “Flip-top” gas cap was not too bad either as at that time, here were many excellent used ones available at reasonable prices. The “Turn Signal Hood” proved more of a challenge. There was not an abundance of 1967 “Turn Signal Hoods” available even “back then”, and when I did find one, it either required a lot of work, or was, what I felt, outrageously priced. I finally settled on a 1968 “Turn Signal Hood” in the late 80’s.

3 or 4 years ago, I discussed this situation with John (67gta289), and as it turned out, his ’67 did not originally have the Exterior Décor Option either, and he had wanted to add it to his ’67 in the early 80’s. He was able to get the “Turn Signal Hood” as a Service Part from Ford in the early 80’s. And as alluded to earlier, it was in fact a 1968 hood with no provisions for the 1967 “FORD” letters. John noted that he just made a template from his original non-“Turn Signal Hood”, and transferred it to his Service Replacement hood. As I of course had my original non-“Turn Signal Hood”, this seemed to be the “way to go”.

Due to the crown of the hood and the angled front, I figured that the best solution was to make 2 templates; one for the Passenger side and one for the Driver’s side. I opted to use 1-1/2” masking tape with little or no ductility (so that it wouldn’t stretch much if any). I applied the tape even with the front of the hood (where the turned down sheet metal is for the Hood Lip Molding), and went from the hood peak to the point where the straight front angles toward the rear to meet the fender side of the hood. I then “indexed” the center of the peak of the hood with a mark on the tape, and did the same at the angle point. This way I’d have two reference points when applying the tape to the 1968 hood. I then took a soft (HB) lead wood pencil and highlighted the 4 holes for the letter studs on the tape. I then repeated this procedure for the other side of the hood.

I then transferred the template (one side at a time) to the 1968 hood, lining up my index points on the 1968 hood. Now is where the somewhat critical point and judgment comes into play. With the template in place, the holes must be marked for drilling. I decided that the most accurate way was to use an Automatic (spring loaded) Center Punch as opposed to a regular hammer type. The Automatic Center Punches have a longer more gradually tapered point, plus will give less distortion to the metal. Now for the judgment (and yes, I wore my reading glasses for this) ; with the template in place, place the point of the Center Punch as close to the center of each outlined hole as you possibly can (as noted in previous replies, there is very, very little “wiggle room” in the location of the holes for the sleeve nuts/ letter studs) and mark each hole center. As at the time, I knew that the location of the holes would be critical, and not allow much “fudging”,  I decided to drill holes that were smaller (I can’t remember if I used 5/64” or 3/32”) than the final size (1/8”) for the sleeve nuts first, and check the studs of each letter in relation to the smaller holes. I must say that I really lucked out as the studs all appeared to “hit” the holes perfectly. I then proceeded to drill the final size 1/8” holes. After the 1/8” holes were drilled, I once again checked the fit of the letter studs into the holes (the holes now being larger than the studs). The hood was then ready for prep, primer and paint.

As I see that Jeroen has offered to send you a template since you don’t have a 1967 hood to work from, I feel that if he uses a procedure similar to what I have outlined above, and you do something similar to what I have noted for installing the templates and drilling the holes, you should be in good shape.

Hope this has helped.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67
MCA 04909

Offline dave6768

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 10:26:04 PM »
In 67, the turn signal hood was also part of the Sports Sprint package.

I used a piece of Kraft paper and just marked the center position and then aligned it with the front edge of the hood.  There was a rumple in the middle, but was able to pull it flat in the location of the letters.

Dave

Offline Ralf

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 02:50:32 AM »
Thx Marty, Richard, Bob and Dave for your very good hints and remarks.
I'm really looking forward to Jeroens template.

Thx
Ralf


« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 02:57:57 AM by Ralf »
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, Built Nov 30 1966, SJ, DSO75.
Pictures: https://mustang-cabrio-67.jimdo.com/mustang-1967-impressionen

Offline Fastback2013

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 03:43:44 PM »
Hello,

I must admit...reading all those detailled comments, tips and tricks, I am feeling like a boy scout :P
But... very educating, because for me this is all a trip back in 'memory lane' !! Knowing that I wasn't born at the time this car was made :o
I will do my very, very best for measuring it thoroughly.
Thanks for the help !!
Kind regards,
Jeroen
San Jose 7R02C1708xx
Fastback GTA
built on 01/12/1967

Offline C6ZZGT

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2017, 03:21:00 AM »
In 67, the turn signal hood was also part of the Sports Sprint package.

I used a piece of Kraft paper and just marked the center position and then aligned it with the front edge of the hood.  There was a rumple in the middle, but was able to pull it flat in the location of the letters.

Dave

+1 what Dave said ! Exactly how the wifes car is
Brian
66 GT Coupe 6R07A143871 owned since 1983
40+ yr parts man , over 25 with Ford.

Offline Ralf

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2017, 12:06:23 PM »
Jeroen,
Any news on your template?
Great to hearing from you.

Thx
Ralf
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, Built Nov 30 1966, SJ, DSO75.
Pictures: https://mustang-cabrio-67.jimdo.com/mustang-1967-impressionen

Offline Ralf

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2017, 09:17:24 AM »
Do not know what about Geroen. No info here, no reply via pn I wrote some days ago.

Anyone else who can support to send me e.g. a dimensional scetch/drawing (like position of the letters and position of the holes)?

However, I still hope Jeroen could provide a feedback on his template soon.

1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, Built Nov 30 1966, SJ, DSO75.
Pictures: https://mustang-cabrio-67.jimdo.com/mustang-1967-impressionen

Offline Fastback2013

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Re: Hood Letter 1967 + Alignment
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2017, 01:05:42 PM »
Hello Ralf,

I send you a mail from my phone, but apparently it didn't arrived. :(
I had the flu last week, so I couldn't do what I had promised, sorry for that.
Tomorrow morning I'll set up everything and I'll report back.
Kind regards,
Jeroen 
San Jose 7R02C1708xx
Fastback GTA
built on 01/12/1967