ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Ralf on November 26, 2017, 03:06:52 AM
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Hello,
Since my engine sticker is missing what would be the correct numbers for my car 289 2V, C4, 66 Nov?
Examples
66
a) (https://picload.org/infonail/drcdogpi/enginetag__.jpg)
https://picload.org/view/drcdogpi/enginetag__.jpg.html (https://picload.org/view/drcdogpi/enginetag__.jpg.html)
67
b) (https://picload.org/infonail/drcdogpw/enginetag.jpg)
https://picload.org/view/drcdogpw/enginetag.jpg.html (https://picload.org/view/drcdogpw/enginetag.jpg.html)
As I think mine should be than:
289 C (Engine Plant C or W?, how to figure out?) 67 X (e.g 14 change level US) Fomoco
6 K (or L) XXX (e.g. 239A, or 236A, Engine Code?) X
Has no E in between (Emission), because none TE equipment)
Am I right?
How far in advance needs the engine tag dated vs. car build date? 2 to 8 weeks, or even more possible?
Great, if someone can post a picture of the location on this tag.
EDIT:
Found this nice one, great help...
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8221.new#new
Thank you.
Ralf
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Will try and help but a little confused - sure its my error or fault.
Are you looking for info for the aluminum engine tag or the engine ID sticker
Understand your working with a
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, GTA Nov 30 1966, SJ without a 71 or 72 DSO
As far as a date. Lets start with - Do you have the original engine in the car? And if so what is the assembly date stamped in the block?
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Will try and help but a little confused - sure its my error or fault.
>>> don't think so.
Are you looking for info for the aluminum engine tag or the engine ID sticker
>>> aluminum engine tag
Understand your working with a
1967 Convertible 289, C4 Automatic, GTA Nov 30 1966, SJ without a 71 or 72 DSO
>>> correct so far, but no a true GTA (honestly I had no clue about this one when I bought the car), originally 2V, C-Code, DSO 75
Do you have the original engine in the car?
>>> yes, except a rebuild to 4V (intake manifold + holley carb), was done before I bought the car. Here is than the question, engine tag to be stamped original 2V or 4V
And if so what is the assembly date stamped in the block?
>> this I do not know currently (and not sure where to find) ???
Thanks for your help.
Ralf
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Don't know if I helped. Did you get all of your questions answered ?
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Don't know if I helped. Did you get all of your questions answered ?
What I wanna do, visiting Marti, submitting VIN and see what will be the result.
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Ralf: there is a stamped build date on your engine. It is on the left front side. (Driver side) It is on a flat surface near the water pump and above the fuel pump. So the stamped date and the metal tag need to be consistent. The stamped date is covered in paint so it's first. But what was the delay on putting the tag on? Same day or a few days later? I would think that they would be very close. The engine was assembled, painted and then shipped to the assembly plant.
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Thx, I'll check that tomorrow. Do you have a pic?
It's 5 pm, already dark, lights in my garage are to weak to be able to see anything ;)
You're refering to this (its not mine)?
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/171201/temp/q2shovvr.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4923/q2shovvr_jpg.htm)
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You're refering to this (its not mine)?
Probably. Your picture's file took way to long to load, so here's mine.
Jim
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Yes. That is the one Ralf needs to find. I had the same problem. His photo never loaded.
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Modified the above one.
Nevertheless, used flickr now.
The photo I loaded:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/157759092@N02/23904091517/in/dateposted-public/
I took a photo of mine....problem.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/157759092@N02/38737657042/in/dateposted-public/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157759092@N02/38737657042/in/dateposted-public/)
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At least on my car, the machined pad surface with stamped engine assembly date is obstructed from view by the AC compressor and brackets at the left front of the engine block Other than by removing the compressor and brackets, haven’t figured out a way to clearly see the stamping.
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At least on my car, the machined pad surface with stamped engine assembly date is obstructed from view by the AC compressor and brackets at the left front of the engine block Other than by removing the compressor and brackets, haven’t figured out a way to clearly see the stamping.
Clear, this is what I meant with "problem" as you can see on my picture.
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Ralf,
Your car and my car were built at SJ assembly plant on the same day; November 30 1966. My car is Thermactor equipped since it was invoiced to a dealer in the Los Angeles area (DSO 71).
My engine tag:
289 E 67 FoMoCo
L F 236-B 15
The E in top line is the Windsor plant designation (not “emissions”). The L in the bottom line is date code for November. I think the jury is still out on what the F signifies in the bottom line, with no consensus.
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Oh...nice one, same car build. May be we could share some pics.
I meant the E in the second row as "emission", not in the first row. ;)
Example
First row
289 E 67 Fomoco
C= Cleveland, W= Windor, E= Windsor
Second Row
6L E 239-A 14
6 = 66, L= November, E = could be emission (but you have an F, which is indeed in the contrary what has been said in other threads) 239 - A 14
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Since your car is a C-code 289 with C4 automatic trans, second line on the tag would be something like:
L (F or ?) 236-B 15
236: C-code w/automatic trans
-B 15 {consistent with Level 15 Windsor 289 engine produced from mid-11/66}
F remains an unknown designation as far as I know. Some have speculated it’s related to whether or not the engine has Thermactor system installed.
Another clue to help narrow things down would be to identify the engine block casting number and casting date.
(some of the above info is researched from the Manell book)
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For 1967
231 = C code -man trans.
236 = C code -auto trans.
235 = A code -auto trans.
250 = A code -man trans.
245 = K code -man trans.
246 = K code -auto trans.
The A/B suffix according to Mannel's book, at least for the year/engine we are focusing on, represents level 14/15.
Since the core tag number is different for auto vs. man, there is no reason to change the suffix for the same thing.
Since your car is a C-code 289 with C4 automatic trans, second line on the tag would be something like:
L (F or ?) 236-B 15
236: C-code w/automatic trans
-B 15 {consistent with Level 15 Windsor 289 engine produced from mid-11/66}
F remains an unknown designation as far as I know. Some have speculated it’s related to whether or not the engine has Thermactor system installed.
Another clue to help narrow things down would be to identify the engine block casting number and casting date.
(some of the above info is researched from the Manell book)
Thx.
Instead 236 B-15, could it be A 14 or 15 as well?
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Instead 236 B-15, could it be A 14 or 15 as well?
From the information available for 1967 289s (from Mannel book and threads in this forum), suffix A is consistent with level -14 and suffix B is consistent with level -15.
Probably the next step in your tracing process would be to identify your engine block casting number and casting date to confirm whether it's a either a Cleveland or Windsor 289 block. You've indicated that at the time of an engine rebuild, it was fitted with a 4V carburetor and manifold.
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My engine tag:
289 E 67 FoMoCo
L F 236-B 15
The E in top line is the Windsor plant designation (not “emissions”). The L in the bottom line is date code for November. I think the jury is still out on what the F signifies in the bottom line, with no consensus.
I found this tag on ebay.
289 E 67 Fomoco
L E 236-B 15
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KdgAAOSwEupZfNuY/s-l1600.jpg)
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I found this tag on ebay.
289 E 67 Fomoco
L E 236-B 15
Nice work, that should fit very well.
Btw, I've come around to reconciling that the "F" in my tag is most likely a weak stamping of what should be "E" in E 236-B on the second line. Which corroborates the markings on the tag you found in eBay.
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Nice work, that should fit very well.
Yes, I thought so as well and belongs now to me ;)
The only thing I was curios about, the 6 before the L is "missing".
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The only thing I was curios about, the 6 before the L is "missing".
Manell p. 7-5 section 7A3 shows several photo examples of 67 engine tags missing the number 6 before the month date code. So, your tag's second line L E 236-B 15 (and mine) would fit this pattern.
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Manell p. 7-5 section 7A3 shows several photo examples of 67 engine tags missing the number 6 before the month date code. So, your tag's second line L E 236-B 15 (and mine) would fit this pattern.
Thanks a lot for clarification. Manells books seems to be a good investment I have to think about.
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Manell p. 7-5 section 7A3 shows several photo examples of 67 engine tags missing the number 6 before the month date code. So, your tag's second line L E 236-B 15 (and mine) would fit this pattern.
Kevin Marti's "The Mustang and Cougar Tagbook" also discussed the absence of the number (day of month number) on page 90. "Ensite" plant in Canada (aka: Windsor engines) used this different layout on the engine aluminum tags till Mid-November 1967 (this is within the 68 Model year) so every 67 Windosr-built Engine would have the different layout.