ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: ramblewood390GT on December 05, 2017, 05:20:37 PM
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I need to get a set of rear shackles for a 1968 GT car with dual exhaust. What would you recommend as the most correct among the new production stuff?
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I need to get a set of rear shackles for a 1968 GT car with dual exhaust. What would you recommend as the most correct among the new production stuff?
Good question . I have seen the special duel exhaust shackle for the driver side only sold separately and not part of a matching set . It is only similar in appearance compared to a original. Big surprise. That special one that is made staggered doesn't match the standard side sold separately in materials and over all appearance. That was NPD. Maybe other dealers have different. Hopefully someone else has had better luck. I made my own using originals as donor parts rather then waste anymore time. FYI you need two good used ones (pre 1970 style) to make one duel exhaust staggered shackle. You press out one shaft from each of two separate shackles . You fit together the two one shaft half's for a complete look. The nut typically covers any irregularities from where the shaft was pressed out. You can't do this with the later style service replacements. Starting in 1970 I believe the shackle shaft became a larger diameter compared to 65-69. The shaft necks down to the same thread size as 65-67. If you press out the shaft of the later style the resulting hole is too large for the nut . The old rubber bushings will not work on the newer Ford service shackle ether because they have too small diameter hole.
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I made my own using originals as donor parts rather then waste anymore time. FYI you need two good used ones (pre 1970 style) to make one duel exhaust staggered shackle.
The dual exhaust type is the same for 66 thru 70, all used 1/2 inch dia shafts (64-65 are 9/16 inch dia).
You press out one shaft from each of two separate shackles . You fit together the two one shaft half's for a complete look.
You need to drill out one of the mounting holes of the bar to press fit the shaft, and you need to do this to two bars (sorry, I can't remember the exact size, I think 1/2 inch - you should measure the knurled dia and make a slightly smaller hole). I phosphated the bars, clear zinc plated the shafts then pressed the shaft in the renamed plates.
The NPD pictures show a faint stamped ridge (I can't think of a good word) around the dome of the bar and plate about 1 1/4 inch on both their single and dual exhaust shackles. Bob's concern about the two types matching is correct. Also be advised, there "may" be a partial Ford part number "C6DA" on original bars.
Jim
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Thank you for the advice. I'm sorry for starting the discussion in the wrong section. I'm pretty new to all this so even the most basic info is helpful to get me on the right track.
It sounds like I should get 4 original shackles and then create two staggered sets from those, for the most proper look?
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Thank you for the advice. I'm sorry for starting the discussion in the wrong section. I'm pretty new to all this so even the most basic info is helpful to get me on the right track.
It sounds like I should get 4 original shackles and then create two staggered sets from those, for the most proper look?
Only need three. You need the staggered shackle (duel exhaust only) on the driver side only. The passenger side is normal. Two to make the special one and one for the for the passenger side.
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Thanks Bob. I'll look for a set of 3 with a similar level of wear and break out the drill. Seems like a project I can handle.
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Thanks Bob. I'll look for a set of 3 with a similar level of wear and break out the drill. Seems like a project I can handle.
There is no drill needed for the way I described to make the staggered shackle but you will need a hydraulic press to push one shaft out of each of the donor shackles to make the two half's. To do it Jim's way you will only need the one shackle but you will need the drill and the hydraulic press. That is because besides pressing out the one side shaft you will then re install the loose pressed out shaft into the end plate (end plate with two holes) of your one single shackle . You have to enlarge one of the two holes in the end plate to accept the previously pressed out shaft. After pressing in the knurled end of the shaft into the drilled out hole you have made your other half. The end result is the same just different ways to achieve it. My way has less steps but you need more parts (two shackles). Jim's way uses less parts (one shackle) but more steps. I typically do it the way Jim describes because it uses less parts but it is a little harder to do. I explained the other way procedure using the two to make one because it takes fewer steps and it is easier. It will be up to you to decide which way to do it .
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I have not seen the duel exhaust shackle used on 68's. I have a unrestored 12/02/67 built 68 Shelby that does not have the duel shackle.
Am I wrong?
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I have not seen the duel exhaust shackle used on 68's. I have a unrestored 12/02/67 built 68 Shelby that does not have the duel shackle.
Am I wrong?
I was going to add that I don't believe all dual exhaust cars had them. Maybe one of those 'should have had', but like a lot of things we see, wasn't an absolute.
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I phosphated the bars, clear zinc plated the shafts then pressed the shaft in the renamed plates.
Jim, I've seen the bars as natural steel, I blast/tumble them to get the correct appearance (so long as they aren't heavily pitted). The shafts are usually phosphate or just a darkened heat-treated. There may be variances based on assembly plant or year, but this has been pretty consistent with originals I've found. I know the repro's come the way you've described, but they don't match originals (at least what I've seen).
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I'm going throw a big wet blanket on the staggered shackle myth. I've taken apart probably 30-40 68/69 dual exhaust cars and never seen any staggered studs. If it were my car I would use same shackle left and right.
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I have never seen staggered shakles on any 68s either & 70s were a one year only coarse thread & shoulder nuts then 71 up back to fine thread with the thick plates from what I seen. I have found the c6da #s on west coast cars.
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In all fairness I agree with Ed and Tim and the others. I believe the special staggered shackle on the driver stopped after 67 production. In my effort to help with the "duel exhaust shackle" I should have mentioned that although duel exhaust the evidence goes against the special shackle being used on the later cars. Sorry for the confusion.
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Sorry for the confusion.
I'm happy. Less work for me and I learned some new stuff. Do these look ok?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/222396277112?
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I've seen the bars as natural steel,
Rusts.
I blast/tumble them to get the correct appearance (so long as they aren't heavily pitted).
I don't have a tumbler big enough, in fact not many do. I blast.The shafts are usually phosphate or just a darkened heat-treated.
Possible. When I removed the rubber bushings on a known original pair and saw what appeared to be clear zinc, and confirmed it when the shafts were removed, I assumed they were clear zinc plated. Supplier difference may be the reason.
I have never seen staggered shakles on any 68s either -
That would be best answered by 68 Shelby owners. Calling 68 Shelby owners.
Some pictures of the bar used on the left hand side duAl exhaust cars, and both sides on all single exhaust cars. The part number for the bar is C4DA-5627-A.
Pic 1 - Seven from my collection. The top one is a Scott Drake reproduction. Original bars are 0.168 to 0.228 inch thick, S Drake's is 0.155 inch. Note the "rings" around the holes that approximate where the rubber bushing fits. The ring is part of the stamping tool for the "cup" of the bushing end. I believe the same bar was used into later years as the nuts used for the shafts are the same, which would be indicated by the same hole for the threaded part of the shaft, and the hole spacing is the same. That does not answer why the part is marked C6DA in pic 3. However, all the bars are all interchangeable with the double shaft plates I have. Keep in mind that the majority of cars is see in the San Jose, CA area were built in San Jose.
Note: The tape is to identify the bars when flipped -
Pic 2 - The same seven, flipped. Look carefully for markings. OK, don't. You will see them in the next three pictures.
Pic 3 - Marked C6DA
Pic 4 - Has an "E" stamped.
Pic 5 - Has an "E" stamped, it's now not a coincidence. The other four have no markings (just some pitting where the bushings rub).
Jim
Note the smaller four "notches" on the one in the second row, right hand side.
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I have never seen staggered shakles on any 68s ...................
That would be best answered by 68 Shelby owners. Calling 68 Shelby owners.
Well you've got a great start. Three of them already have offered their experience.
Know this subject/issue came up a few years back when Tim Marti and I were judging and the no special shackle was the conclusion.
I looked through my pictures when the OP first posted and could not find an example of the special shackle like we see in other years. Don't know why engineers changed things - just that it appears that they did
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Well you've got a great start. Three of them already have offered their experience.
Know this subject/issue came up a few years back when Tim Marti and I were judging and the no special shackle was the conclusion.
I looked through my pictures when the OP first posted and could not find an example of the special shackle like we see in other years. Don't know why engineers changed things - just that it appears that they did
It's time for some Mustang parts supplies to correct their catalogs, maybe.
Jim
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I'm happy. Less work for me and I learned some new stuff. Do these look ok?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/222396277112?
I think you can do better. The pictures are bad at the least but what surface is visible looks bumpy like it had been very rusty prior to blasting.
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Know this subject/issue came up a few years back when Tim Marti and I were judging and the no special shackle was the conclusion.
Who's Tim Marti? :) ;)
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I don't have a tumbler big enough, in fact not many do.
That would be best answered by 68 Shelby owners.
Check the 'Services Offered' section... there's a guy in Apex, NC that offers tumbling services :)
My '68 Shelby didn't have the staggered shackle, but I wouldn't focus on Shelby cars only as it was a dual exhaust detail that would have been done at the Ford assembly plant.
Tim has been into more '68 cars than most, if not all, of us, so his opinion, along with everyone else's is sound enough proof for me.
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Great photos - the ebay ones I posted are definitely a different shape. So the search continues.
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most shackles interchange but u have to watch as 2 different hole diameters in the rubber bushings depending on the shaft diameter & year model & also fairlane torino cougar can be different from mustang .
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Don't know why engineers changed things - just that it appears that they did
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It is just a guess but the early 67 dual tips did not have the indents to provide shackle clearance. May after that change they it unnecessary to use the staggered shackle.
Marty not Marti, I am the lesser known one. :D
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Yes the indented chrome tip that came later is why I always thought there was no more need for the staggered shackle so the LH bottom stud & nut had more clearance. The RH shackle can go both ways so no clearance problems but LH shackle can only be installed one way due to the the gas tank offset to the LH side of the car making for a small clearance area between frame rail & tank.
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I'm redoing the suspension on my 68 S-Code GT, December build as we speak. No staggered shackles on my car... both are identical. I started to panic thinking i needed them after reading this thread then luckily further down, my fears were dashed! ;D ;D
Cheers
Dave
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For the record I have never seen anything but the normal shackles on a 1968 Shelby, all of which were dual exhaust.
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In conclusion, were the 67 shackles phosphate/oil like jwc66k shows or natural/tumbled like CharlesTurner says?
I'm not sure mine are pretty enough to be laid bare for all to see ...
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Jim, I've seen the bars as natural steel, I blast/tumble them to get the correct appearance (so long as they aren't heavily pitted). The shafts are usually phosphate or just a darkened heat-treated. There may be variances based on assembly plant or year, but this has been pretty consistent with originals I've found. I know the repro's come the way you've described, but they don't match originals (at least what I've seen).
I can confirm your suspicion Charles. Both shackles are the same on my November built Shelby. I did wind up finding a set off of a dual exhaust car with the special shackle. I always understood that 1967 dual exhaust cars didn't have the one special shackle?
-Keith
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In conclusion, were the 67 shackles phosphate/oil like jwc66k shows or natural/tumbled like CharlesTurner says?
I'm not sure mine are pretty enough to be laid bare for all to see ...
The shackles are natural/tumbled . The NOS service shackles are also bare steel. I might have some nice ones if can't find any.
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I can confirm your suspicion Charles. Both shackles are the same on my November built Shelby. I did wind up finding a set off of a dual exhaust car with the special shackle. I always understood that 1967 dual exhaust cars didn't have the one special shackle?
-Keith
Kieth,67 dual exhaust cars have the special shackle but it was eliminated for 68 . I have lost count of all of the early and late 67 original examples I have observed with the special shackle. For additional evidence the special shackle is shown in the 67 assembly manuals as well.
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The shackles are natural/tumbled . The NOS service shackles are also bare steel.
Natural, aka untreated, steel rusts. Original steel shackles are rusty (that's unfortunately true). My solution is to bead blast and phosphate them - lightly. It's very close in appearance to a part stamped from cold rolled steel (CRS) bar, and oiled down as part of the process, to keep the stamping die from failing.
It's your choice, base steel, or a light phosphate and oil finish.
Jim
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Natural, aka untreated, steel rusts. Original steel shackles are rusty (that's unfortunately true). My solution is to bead blast and phosphate them - lightly. It's very close in appearance to a part stamped from cold rolled steel (CRS) bar, and oiled down as part of the process, to keep the stamping die from failing.
It's your choice, base steel, or a light phosphate and oil finish.
Jim
It just depends on your expectations. The most authentic look is bare steel . Bare steel can be protected with any one of many rust preventive products on the market. It will need to be routinely maintained. With that said I agree a very light phosphate treatment will protect and hold the preserving oil /treatment better.
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I can confirm your suspicion Charles. Both shackles are the same on my November built Shelby. I did wind up finding a set off of a dual exhaust car with the special shackle. I always understood that 1967 dual exhaust cars didn't have the one special shackle? -Keith
As another data point my SJ Mar 2 Shelby has the special shackles.
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Natural, aka untreated, steel rusts. Original steel shackles are rusty (that's unfortunately true). My solution is to bead blast and phosphate them - lightly. It's very close in appearance to a part stamped from cold rolled steel (CRS) bar, and oiled down as part of the process, to keep the stamping die from failing.
It's your choice, base steel, or a light phosphate and oil finish.
Jim
Jim -- I agree that a very light PO finish looks much like bare steel and is more resistant to rust.
I was just wondering about what assembly line was. I should learn to preface my remark with "assembly line."
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Kieth,67 dual exhaust cars have the special shackle but it was eliminated for 68 . I have lost count of all of the early and late 67 original examples I have observed with the special shackle. For additional evidence the special shackle is shown in the 67 assembly manuals as well.
Bob: I have a set of the "special" shackles. I just need them restored. I misunderstood a conversation with you about them in the past. I understood most 1967 cars didn't have them?
-Keith
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Bob: I have a set of the "special" shackles. I just need them restored. I misunderstood a conversation with you about them in the past. I understood most 1967 cars didn't have them?
-Keith
Keith ,If you mean non duel exhaust 67 Mustangs didn't get them I would concur. I can only assume regular 67 duel exhaust Mustangs got them given the preponderance of evidence to support that it was typical for 67 Shelby's early and late to have them. It is hard to restore a original set if it has a lot of pitting. There is only so much you can do to make the pits disappear in bare metal. Bondo and paint is a different story.
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If you mean non duel exhaust 67 Mustangs didn't get them I would concur. I can only assume regular 67 duel exhaust Mustangs got them given the preponderance of evidence to support that it was typical for 67 Shelby's early and late to have them. ..............
+1
Would add that early and late dual exhaust unrestored Mustangs are typically found with the "different" one shackle as was practiced on 65-66's