Author Topic: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion  (Read 564 times)

Offline Bob Gaines

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68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« on: December 04, 2017, 01:56:57 PM »
ADMIN NOTE: This thread was split from another discussion and moved to this section
Another mystery is the owner of this GT500 tells me that his Marti report says that this car is Shelby #055. That seems hard to believe since ours was built four days later and is Shelby # 602.

If you are comparing Shelby build dates vs Shelby number that can be explained. The build date is the finish date . I believe the cars were typically started in sequential order at Smith but not finished in sequential order many times. With that said a car with a earlier production Shelby VIN could have the same or close build date as a later production Shelby VIN marked car. This is for Shelby/AO Smith not Ford. The Ford line didn't have the issues that the Smith line did.  If you are talking Ford assemblyine build/completion dates that don't jive in relation to Ford VIN numbers that is more of a mystery IMO. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 04:53:22 PM by J_Speegle »
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 10:12:06 PM »
Did find another example of our "hanging tag"  68 San Jose this time Cougar.


Another mystery is the owner of this GT500 tells me that his Marti report says that this car is Shelby #055. That seems hard to believe since ours was built four days later and is Shelby # 602.

Projected or real NJ date  (that should be somewhat easy to explain)  or are you comparing completion dates at AO SMith?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 10:15:57 PM by J_Speegle »
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Offline ruppstang

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 10:35:45 PM »
The projected build date on our 68 GT350 was 12/16/67 actual build date was 12-02/67 Shelby production number is 602.

My friends 68 GT500 projected build date was 12/ 04/ 67 actual build date was 11/28/ 67 Shelby production number 055.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 01:07:02 AM »
Another mystery is the owner of this GT500 tells me that his Marti report says that this car is Shelby #055. That seems hard to believe since ours was built four days later and is Shelby # 602.

Marti what do you think of me splitting this other "mystery" off into its own thread?

Would guess that with Mr Disher's focus on 68 all these years he may have stuff he wants to add and I've compiled a short list I would be happen to post for the discussion
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Offline ruppstang

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 08:32:49 AM »
Marti what do you think of me splitting this other "mystery" off into its own thread?

Would guess that with Mr Disher's focus on 68 all these years he may have stuff he wants to add and I've compiled a short list I would be happen to post for the discussion

Yes I agree it is off topic and should be under the Shelby heading.
Thanks

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 05:07:22 PM »
Trying to stay focused on a somewhat narrow window (can always expand it later) here is some data from Marti reports of 68 Shelbys

Limited myself to those prior to Feb 68  - in hope it would help the discussion. Did leave the one last example in (from Feb) since it appears to be "out of order" also

By Ford VIN and by Ford completion date. Marti's two examples inserted in blue

VIN                  -   Projected Ford Date     - Real Ford Date

8T03S115994-0136         11/30/67   11/24/67
8T0xS1xxxxxxx-0055      12/04/67   11/28/ 67
8T03J126779-00309        12/09/67   12/01/67
8T02Jxxxxxxxx-00602     12/16/67    12/02/67
8T02J134472-00915        12/27/67   12/15/67
8T02J134497-00938        12/28/67   12/22/67
8T02S134508-00949       12/28/67   12/30/67
8T02J149384-01183        1/11/68     1/13/68
8t02J149484-01705         1/16/68     1/16/68
8T02J155517-01768        1/23/68     1/24/68   
8T02S169370-01686        2/21/68     2/14/68


Only one car in this sampling sort of out of (Shelby) sequential order when compared to the Ford VIN. Maybe its where it was placing in the holding area when unloaded from Ford or for some other unknown reason
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 02:59:45 PM by J_Speegle »
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Online caspian65

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 07:55:51 PM »
I've run into this with '68 Shelby's also, where the Ford VIN and Shelby number are scattered.  Would be prudent to stick to a close Ford VIN to compare assembly plant details and then Shelby unit numbers to compare details from OA Smith... assuming that they were built consecutively by number.
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Offline ruppstang

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »

Jeff is the first column the actual completed date and the second the projected date?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:01:13 PM by J_Speegle »

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 03:00:46 PM »
Jeff is the first column the actual completed date and the second the projected date?

Fixed  ::) I think. Been a busy week
Jeff Speegle

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Offline ruppstang

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 12:27:34 AM »
I called another friend near me that has a 68 GT350 also and asked for his Marti report. Unbelievably it was built five days before our car and one day before the Shelby I posted about. His car's VIN is 8T02J11XXXX-00323 The projected build date is 12/08/67 the actual build date is 11-27-67.
All three of these cars are not 100 miles apart, cool.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 08:10:55 AM by ruppstang »

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 01:17:35 AM »
Let me try to help.....

Ford assigned VIN numbers are not sequential....on the first day of production Ford did not build car number 1 then car number 2.....etc

Ford VINs were assigned by the computer...so they may have built number 2, number 7 and number 10...just a hypothetical.

Then you need to consider only one of every of every 71 Mustangs built was sent to AOSmith for conversion to Shelby.

These cars were loaded on rail cars and sent to Michigan. They did not keep track of serial numbers and once cars were unloaded they could have sat outside for weeks. The first car loaded would be the last car off, the first car parked in the holding might be buried, until production caught up.

Shelby did not assign serial numbers in strict numerical order. The first five cars built were Shelby numbers 41, 339, 101, 301 and 56.

So, once you take all those items into account its entirely possible....

It is correct to say generally speaking, lower Ford serial numbers equate to lower Shelby numbers, but not always.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 01:25:12 AM by Coralsnake »

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 01:51:28 AM »
Let me try to help.....

Ford assigned VIN numbers are not sequential....on the first day of production Ford did not build car number 1 then car number 2.....etc

Ford VINs were assigned by the computer...so they may have built number 2, number 7 and number 10...just a hypothetical.

Then you need to consider only one of every of every 71 mustangs built was sent to AOSmith for conversion to Shelby.

These cars were loaded on rail cars and sent to Michigan. They did not keep track of serial and once cars were unloaded they could have sat outside for weeks. The first car loaded would be the last car off, the first car parked in the holding might be buried, until production caught up.

Shelby did not assign serial numbers in strict numerical order. The first five cars built were Shelby numbers 41, 339, 101, 301 and 56.

So, once youtake all those items into account its entirely possible....

It is correct to say generally speaking, lower Ford serial numbers equate to lower Shelby numbers, but not always.
Pete,my question is are the cars you mentioned the first five cars started on   or   the first five cars completed? The build date is the completed date not the started on date.  It is unreasonable to assume that both can be one and the same for all cars.  I am unaware of a recorded Ford started on date.      Also it has been my suspicion that Ford assigned a particular Ford VIN to a particular Shelby VIN rather then letting Shelby assign them . This suspected practice was not just 68 but going back to at least the the beginning of 67 production and maybe further back in 66 production yet still. With that said I understand that some Ford VIN's did not correspond sequentially with the associated Shelby number(Some Shelby VIN numbers that were low had a Ford VIN that was higher then another car with a higher Shelby VIN number. The buck tag in the case of the 68 seems to indicate Fords awareness of the Shelby unit so it would make sense that it was possible for Ford to assign the Shelby VIN too in order to keep track of things.  I know I am a heretic.   Just my point of view until solid evidence suggest otherwise.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline ruppstang

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 09:04:00 AM »
 

 
Ford assigned VIN numbers are not sequential....on the first day of production Ford did not build car number 1 then car number 2.....etc


I have known that VIN number were not sequential for some time. I was comparing the Ford completion date to the Shelby sequential number.

Pete do you know if production stopped at AO Smith during the UAW strike at Ford? 

Bob's theory of Ford assigning the Shelby production numbers is interesting and some thing I had not considered.
 

Online caspian65

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2017, 10:36:15 AM »
I don't have the 68-up SAAC registry, but thought I had remembered that '68 Mustangs, destined to be Shelby's, were built in batches.  At least similar equipped or by color.

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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2017, 03:09:51 PM »
I don't have the 68-up SAAC registry, but thought I had remembered that '68 Mustangs, destined to be Shelby's, were built in batches.  At least similar equipped or by color.

Mangers of plants as well as workers have offered a different opinion since the same type (heavy with options and big blocks) would slow down the line. They might have been started together since the bodies did not require additional special work/brackets/modifications but were worked into the general mix for the second half so to not slow down the line with all the other things.

They did (it appears) get entered into the system by their DSO.  As a side note same thing has been claimed for years about the San Jose built Shelby's "built in batches"  though have never found anything to support that though again they were typically all entered into the system (Ford VIN assigned) when the special DSO was received by the factory.  With the 67 dates all available its appears that those cars were not completed all in big batches.

Back to 68's alone
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