Author Topic: Phosphating 101 -  (Read 9526 times)

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 02:15:16 PM »
On the Evaporust website, a customer showed how he used a spray bottle on the frame of a Plymouth Roadrunner to remove rust http://www.evaporust.com/chassis.html . It works and works well to remove rust, but you need paint or some other treatment to cover up bare metal. I've not tried phosphating or zinc plating on items treated with Evaporust so I can't comment on those next steps. I'll take Charles comments as fact. On the two major items I used Evaporust on (a door and a fender), I primed and painted after the stuff dried. The door and fender are back on the car which was sold.
Jim 
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Offline jwc66k

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 02:25:06 PM »
A couple of other pictures:
1 - Some items cleaned in a vibrator with TSP and water (except the long bolts) to be eventually clear zinc plated. I did these last November. Note, no major rust after five months.
2 - My cabinet area. Note the 8 inch rear axle on the right. If and when it's needed, I'll send it out to be powder coated.
3 - The vibrator with the two bowls, covers and colander containing the glass pyramids. Note the black rubber covered "nut" to keep the covers on. Don't lose it.
I use about 3 or 4 tablespoons of TSP with the pyramids and cover the batch with water. About four hours of viabrating, a rinse in cold water and air dry.
Jim
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2012, 07:20:00 PM »
A couple of other pictures:
1 - Some items cleaned in a vibrator with TSP and water (except the long bolts) to be eventually clear zinc plated. I did these last November. Note, no major rust after five months.....................


Careful Jim - you'll get the evil eye from our friends in the rustier parts of the country ;)
Jeff Speegle

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Offline jwc66k

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2012, 07:44:10 PM »

Careful Jim - you'll get the evil eye from our friends in the rustier parts of the country ;)
Yeah, it's rough living in a dry rust-free area. Yesterday's humidity was 16 percent. Today feels "muggy" at 24 percent (heh heh heh).
Jim
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Offline BKnapp

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2016, 02:20:24 PM »
Jim -

Thanks so much for the effort and detail you provide to the forum. As a "Newbie", it is invaluable to have stuff like this available. For the veterans, it probably gives them new ideas; but for the new hobbyist, it provides a general understanding of the procedures and gives (at least me) a sense that a lot can be done personally. However, it probably opens the door for a number of dumb questions from beginners, such as:

In the Hardware Prep - Preliminary

you reference using a Vibratory tumbler in Step 9. Is that in lieu of the Rock tumbler Step 5?

Could acetone be used as a cleaning/drying agent in Step 6? I am going to be doing very small batches initially and would likely move to the phosphate/plating step in short order after tumbling.

In the Hardware Prep - Final
You indicate bead blasting everything. I assume this is to remove the kerosene or other protective coating that was placed on the parts until ready for phosphate/plating. I garner it is also to prepare the parts to better accept whatever final coating is being applied. If this is the case than going straight from tumbler to phosphate wouldn't be an option.

Question, is there an etching solution or other option to blasting? I have not gotten a blasting cabinet yet...might need to just bite the bullet. I suspect using a vibratory tumbler with a course media wouldn't quite cut it.

I have gathered a variety of nuts and bolts from the recesses of the garage (hopefully haven't fallen off my car) and am going to give this all a trial run with a variety of the most common finishes. Again, I really think it is great that you volunteer your time and knowledge to those that may have neither(only speaking for myself).

Thanks
Bill
Bill

1967 390 Coupe A/T  P/S  P/B. (S.J. Built 1/4/1967)  7R01S145xxx
2007 Shelby GT500 40th Anniv.  Convert. #125

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2016, 02:33:00 PM »
Jim -

Thanks so much for the effort and detail you provide to the forum. As a "Newbie", it is invaluable to have stuff like this available. For the veterans, it probably gives them new ideas; but for the new hobbyist, it provides a general understanding of the procedures and gives (at least me) a sense that a lot can be done personally. However, it probably opens the door for a number of dumb questions from beginners, such as:

In the Hardware Prep - Preliminary

you reference using a Vibratory tumbler in Step 9. Is that in lieu of the Rock tumbler Step 5?

Could acetone be used as a cleaning/drying agent in Step 6? I am going to be doing very small batches initially and would likely move to the phosphate/plating step in short order after tumbling.

In the Hardware Prep - Final
You indicate bead blasting everything. I assume this is to remove the kerosene or other protective coating that was placed on the parts until ready for phosphate/plating. I garner it is also to prepare the parts to better accept whatever final coating is being applied. If this is the case than going straight from tumbler to phosphate wouldn't be an option.

Question, is there an etching solution or other option to blasting? I have not gotten a blasting cabinet yet...might need to just bite the bullet. I suspect using a vibratory tumbler with a course media wouldn't quite cut it.

I have gathered a variety of nuts and bolts from the recesses of the garage (hopefully haven't fallen off my car) and am going to give this all a trial run with a variety of the most common finishes. Again, I really think it is great that you volunteer your time and knowledge to those that may have neither(only speaking for myself).

Thanks
Bill
Check out "Vibratory tumbler " from harbor freight,eastwood, Cableas, Bass Pro shop ,National tool. etc. They all carry  Vibratory tumbler's and show pictures so you can compare the differance. A rock tumbler is not going to get the job done.  In asking the questions you are on the right path . :)
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2016, 05:21:55 PM »
you reference using a Vibratory tumbler in Step 9. Is that in lieu of the Rock tumbler Step 5?
It's in two different steps that I use the rock tumbler and the viabrator.
Could acetone be used as a cleaning/drying agent in Step 6? I am going to be doing very small batches initially and would likely move to the phosphate/plating step in short order after tumbling.
Acetone is flammable. I avoid things that burn and go boom in the night. Ask Jeff about fire related stuff. My fire fighting experience stems from being in a Damage Control Party on a US Navy Destroyer. However, my kerosene is kept and used outside. All containers are covered except when accessed.
You indicate bead blasting everything. I assume this is to remove the kerosene or other protective coating that was placed on the parts until ready for phosphate/plating. I garner it is also to prepare the parts to better accept whatever final coating is being applied. If this is the case than going straight from tumbler to phosphate wouldn't be an option.
The volatile part of the kerosene evaporates after awhile, leaving a light oil residue. That residue reduces the probability of rust, but it's still too "sticky" for the glass beads. I've got tumbled and kerosene dipped parts on the shelf for over 15 years (it's the low humidity and lack of rain in Northern California). The blasting gets into the threads and cleans them out. If you don't do this, your nuts and bolts will have a dark band in the thread and quite possibly will not thread and torque properly.
Question, is there an etching solution or other option to blasting? I have not gotten a blasting cabinet yet...might need to just bite the bullet. I suspect using a vibratory tumbler with a course media wouldn't quite cut it.
A vibrator tumbler uses 3/16 ceramic pyramids as a media, way too big to get in to clean the threads of nuts and bolts. I got in to doing a lot of parts so my procedure was as follows: soak in cold parts cleaner for a week; rinse in soapy clothes washer water; air dry for a week; tumble in metal filings for a week; dip in kerosene; air dry for at least two weeks; bead blast up to four days in advance of phosphating; phosphate; rinse immediately; air dry in air temperatures above 72F (Northern California does that) for an hour or two; spray with WD-40; sort (the batches are usually between 150 and 300 items). Beer drinking is encouraged.
Contact forum member preaction about phosphating materials.
A rock tumbler is not going to get the job done. 
After 20 some odd years of using a rock tumbler (I even used the tumbler for rocks one winter), I can safely say that is gets the job done very well.
I got a couple of customers "encouraging" me to phosphate some hardware right now. I prefer to do a quality job so I'll wait for some warmer weather.
Jim
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Offline 1967 eight barrel

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2016, 08:24:37 PM »
Great post, Jim. I have been doing Garands, M-14 and M1-A's for some time. Some finishes are almost green. So be careful if you're using what is made for firearms.
Now most of us know, but ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES and GLOVES during the process and when cleaning up.

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Offline BKnapp

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2016, 10:46:12 PM »
It's in two different steps that I use the rock tumbler and the vibrator.

So do you use the vibratory tumbler as stated in Step 9 of Hardware Prep, after the kerosene wash?

Sorry for being slow on the uptake.

Bill
Bill

1967 390 Coupe A/T  P/S  P/B. (S.J. Built 1/4/1967)  7R01S145xxx
2007 Shelby GT500 40th Anniv.  Convert. #125

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2016, 02:27:44 AM »
tumble in metal filings for a week; I can safely say that is gets the job done very well.

It is safe to say that I don't have your patience. A virtue you have that I am in short supply of. ;) ;D
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2016, 12:07:16 PM »
It is safe to say that I don't have your patience. A virtue you have that I am in short supply of. ;) ;D
Patience grasshopper, patience (kids  ??? ) -
Jim
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Online 67gtasanjose

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2016, 01:35:05 PM »
Patience grasshopper, patience (kids  ??? ) -
Jim

Being out of the "Rat Race" helps with such patience...not HAVING to chase after that next paycheck lends to a much more relaxed life(style)...

I'm WAY far away from being this kind of patient yet (aged 55 this year)...With no pension plan in the foreseeable future, even SSI benefits will not, in and by themselves, afford much of a relaxed "senior years" living for a good majority of future would-be retirees. Looks like I (as well as many others) need to stay plugging away at life, likely a worker-bee till I take my last breath (Upside though...many millions of Americans depend on work force people like me staying employed till their dying day too!)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 02:24:08 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2016, 02:19:24 PM »
Patience grasshopper, patience (kids  ??? ) -
Jim
OK email me some of yours. ;D
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline preaction

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2016, 04:43:33 PM »
Jim, is that a radio on top of your bead blast cabinet ?  Also I made a bulk purchase of E phos 630 which is manganese phosphate and is available if anyone needs some just send a PM.
8R02S125064- January 6 1968  SJ   7F93S591808 - April 28 1967  Dearborn   7F91S544039 - December 17 1966 Dearborn

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Phosphating 101 -
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2016, 07:45:28 PM »
Jim, is that a radio on top of your bead blast cabinet ?  Also I made a bulk purchase of E phos 630 which is manganese phosphate and is available if anyone needs some just send a PM.
Not a radio but a pair of RCA WSP150 wireless speakers, something to reduce the noise of the blast cabinet vacuum tank.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.