Author Topic: 67-70 Manual Steering Idler Arm Mounting Arm -Re: Original Take Off Idler Arms  (Read 12507 times)

Offline Murf

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Yes, the core had only a "188" stamped on the arm.  When compared to the C7ZZ arm, the PS arm is a different length so the engineering number would not be on this PS arm.  I am sure it is an actual Ford arm due to the "squeezed" threads on the stationary end and the fact that replacement bushings fit perfectly. In addition after cleaning the arm it had been plainly marked at removal "67 P" in yellow Markal paint which I was sure signified 67 with power steering.  As far as I can tell the only parts in common between the PS arm and the manual arm are as follows:  The self locking nut on the stationary end, the washer and accompanies this nut, and the stationary end bushings are the same on both arms.  Of course the mounting hardware where the stationary arm bolt to the vehicle is also common to both types of idler arms.  The supply of the original arms, both the manual and PS type seems to be limited.  Seems most have been replaced by an aftermarket arm assembly, which certainly would have been far easier and more profitable for shops doing the repair
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline 67gta289

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The reason why I asked is that I have in my hands what is either a factory original or a Ford service part with the engineering part number.

Pulled from a junkyard from 7F02S209xxx, a power steering car, a couple years back.  The car looks like it was parked there between 1971 and 1975 if I put on my sherlock holmes hat.

Unfortunately the piece is rusted pretty darn badly, not a candidate for a rebuild.  Still looking for something equivalent.  As such the pictures are difficult to decipher.  Heck, the part in my hands is difficult. 

When mounted in a car, looking down from the top is the part number C7ZA-3355-B, followed by a quarter inch space, and a few more characters.  It is these supplimental characters that are the most difficult to read.  They could be a "3" and a "9".

On the same arm, opposite side facing the ground is a "FoMoCo" stamp with a box around it.

I've looked through lots of pictures and see the C7ZA-3355-A (manual) and -B (power steering) associated with the idler arm, but don't recall ever seeing the part number such as the ones posted.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 06:17:54 PM by 67gta289 »
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline Murf

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Checked the engineering number on the manual steering arm and it is in fact a  "-B".  The supplemental numbers you referenced are also unreadable on this arm but I can't imagine they are anything to do with the engineering number but probably something to identify the maker, time or date or some other numbers unrelated to the engineering number.  The "-B" arm looks exactly like the "188"  arm I have except that it appears to be a little longer between centers - 1/8 to 3/16 inch at most but difficult to tell exactly.  The "-B" arm has a hole in the center link end with an ID larger than the "188" arm but this is simply how they could have been machined.  The power steering specific center link end bushing will simply drop through the hole in the "-B" arm.  Given the inside diameter of this "-B" arm there is no way it was ever used with the power steering bushing, but again the same forging could have been used with simply a different bore on the center link end thus becoming a power steering part.  The support bracket on this "-B" arm had the slot, indicating manual steering, and it is different in many respects from the un-slotted power steering arm.  The length of the center link bushing in your image indicates that it was in fact used with a power steering car - that bushing is 2.13 inches tall while the manual steering bushing is only 1.75 inches.  There is an obvious difference in how much of the bushing sticks out of the forging between the manual and PS part.  The support end bushing is the same for either manual or PS.  So I just don't know what to say.  I wish the arm I have did in fact have the engineering number debossed on it but it does not.  Ed Meyer noted that some Ford replacements have no engineering number so maybe?.  One more mystery to contend with - perhaps others will check what they have on their car or have stashed and post here and we can get to the bottom.  I am too stupid to post images but will try to provide them to someone who is interested enough to post them.
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline 67gta289

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In regards to the "A" vs. "B" and manual vs. power steering, I very well could have been mistaken.  I did admittedly assume that the part in the previous picture, which has the "B" rev, was a power steering version.  There were two reasons for that: (1) I pulled the complete setup from the power steering optioned vehicle, and (2) the vertical arm does not have the center third hole, and all the posts (that I remember) and cars that I've seen have me thinking that the two hole variety was power and three hole variety was manual.  I suppose someone could have mated a power vertical arm to a manual horizontal arm. 

The primary purpose of my previous post was to show that the Ford part number was part of the casting on the horizontal arm.

I like the idea of putting some dimensions in place, especially since I looked at the Moog replacement from 1980 that I have.  There are some distinct differences.  I'll put a CAD drawing together and post it.

As far as being too stupid to post pictures, how about a tutorial to post pictures?  Naturally, the tutorial is in the pictures below.

One final note about attachments - I've noticed recently that if I create a brand new topic with pictures, it does not get created.  I've been posting without the pictures, and then modifying and adding pictures as a second step. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 09:38:44 PM by 67gta289 »
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline Murf

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John, the last in the series of images that you posted clearly shows the "squeezed" or terribly distorted end of the threaded stationary part of the idler arm.  I am sure that the assembly you picture has never had the arm changed because you cannot remove the nut to change the arm without making the threaded part round again.  All of the threads will peel out of the nut and the squeezed part will be virtually threadless by the time the nut is removed.  That is also the way the arm assembly I have was before I filed off the distorted portion and removed the nut.  I have always looked at those distorted threads on the end of the stationary mount as a sure sign of a virgin idler arm.  I hope that others chime in with some thoughts on this mystery.  Maybe someone has some NOS Ford stuff or pristine original parts for a "show and tell" post. 
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline Murf

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manual vs. power
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline Murf

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More - pink is manual, yellow is power steering
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline Murf

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more  pink = manual, yellow =power steering
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline specialed

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their is a late 1970 p/s version also says ford in circle replaced by square fomoco like many parts from that era.  by 71 fomoco markings are phased out to ford markings. also ihave some idlers with collar type nut at bottom of shaft unlike the domed nut but I think I got them from western trip so from SJ plant cars I think.

Offline chockostang

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John,

Are you saying that the core you found has "188" and not "C7Z..."?

All 67-70 Mustang Idlers will have a C7ZA 3355 Casting.

I have actually seen a A,  But most all are B castings.

Difference is the Manual steering idlers will have a Different mounting bracket with a oblonged hole, have a shorter stub.  Reason for the shorter stub,  the Bushing in idler is shorter for Manual STeering.

Now to account for--Why can a C7ZA 3355 B Idler be used in both applications--The Manual Steering Idlers were machined out to accept the larger Diameter (But Shorter) Manual steering Idler.

If a 188 casting,  it is  a OEM--Same company that was contracted to build the originals,  but not for the Production line.  LOOK EXACTLY the same.


Dan

Offline J_Speegle

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All 67-70 Mustang Idlers will have a C7ZA 3355 Casting.

Guess this gives us all something to look for and discuss more. There seems to be allot of examples out there without the Ford engineering numbers. IMHO just have to collect more info ;)
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 67gtasanjose

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I am working on what I believe to be an original Power Steering Idler arm that I just came across. Everything else from this parts donor vehicle are miraculously untouched so if it is not original it could only be an OE Ford service replacement. It does NOT have the Ford engineering number(s).
It does have 3 characters on it and the first one is definitely a "1" but the other two do not look to be "8's" (some minor pitting on it). If I am seeing it correctly, the other two characters look more like "zeros" I might post a picture or two after the evaporust process.

Since I DID NOT round up the "flattened" shaft enough before trying to separate the two halves (oops!), I could use another nut (if anyone has a spare PM me, this one is the kind with a thin-looking nut with a thin raised locking edge~Reply #21, image 1 has the type of nut I need, like the one on the MANUAL steering idler arm in the picture) UPDATED 1/20/2015 I found a nut source, see next post.

I have read that the bushings can still be bought at Napa, I see other vendors sell them too. Any recommendations? Are Ford NOS available?

Murph's (John's) observations and photographs seem to match closely what I have found out in my research.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:27:49 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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I located a source for the thin locking nut. 9/16-18" HUG-LOCK, also used on some very early Chrysler power steering pumps and other General Motors power steering pumps before about 1972. This helped me find one in the salvage yard, I hope it helps somebody else too.
Pictures below, Nut on LEFT (both images) is the original, one on the right is off a 72 Chrysler PS Pump pulley.

AMK sells them NEW:
9/16-18 GR-8 HUG-LOK NUT, PHOS
OE: (LWA) 6026656 (CHRY)

AMK# B-10537
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 05:27:06 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline J_Speegle

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I located a source for the thin locking nut. 9/16-18" HUG-LOCK, also used on some very early Chrysler power steering pumps and other General Motors power steering pumps before about 1972. ............

Thanks - would have never thought about looking on PS pumps for a nut for an idler arm.  Now just have to find a yard with those other types of cars  :o
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Murf

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The discussion of this nut brings up the question of it being dyed red to indicate a critical torque spec. or left alone.  Most if not all of the front suspension/steering fasteners are marked with red dye - should this one be included in the list of "critical torque" fasteners?
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior