Author Topic: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.  (Read 20872 times)

Offline 67350#1242

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2021, 03:15:31 PM »
Quote
I have a 6A4  (4th wk Nov 66) on my 67
Quote
Thanks. Interesting. Is it a R-3259-1A or R-3259-1AAS revision level? The main body was a new heavy duty casting at the R-3259-1AAS level.

Believe it's the earlier without the extra bracing.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 03:18:04 PM by 67350#1242 »
67 Coupe SJ 11/16/66
67 GT350 SJ 2/01/67

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2021, 03:20:09 PM »
Thanks. Same question about revision levels for the 674 and 604 dates.   

Will have to see if I have pictures of these to go along with the data
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Dan Case

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2021, 05:53:37 PM »
Believe it's the earlier without the extra bracing.

I learned something new today. Apparently I have never seen a carburetor from that production run before because the details of the body casting are new to me. What is the casting number on the body? I knew about the common 1966 and 1967 versions of one casting number but not an in between.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 05:56:09 PM by Dan Case »
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Offline Texas Swede

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2021, 05:57:01 PM »
Dan,
721 equipped with a dashpot.
Texas Swede

Offline Dan Case

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2021, 06:37:35 PM »
Dan,
721 equipped with a dashpot.
Texas Swede

What did it come from?
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Offline Texas Swede

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2021, 01:31:38 PM »
Dan,
This was sold by a guy in Sweden many years ago. Probably an over the counter sold by Shelby in 1967 as Dave Mathews
says all 67's with an automatic came with the Autolite carbs.
Texas Swede

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2021, 02:00:18 PM »
Dan,
This was sold by a guy in Sweden many years ago. Probably an over the counter sold by Shelby in 1967 as Dave Mathews
says all 67's with an automatic came with the Autolite carbs.

Texas Swede
That was then but I think if you asked Dave the same question today that you will find that more information has evolved the perception of carb usage for 67 GT350. It is more a early later thing. Probably more like at least half of 67 GT350 automatic production got the Holley carbs (my guess). The later automatic equiped cars got the Holley but they all had the dashpot. The dashpot has only been found on those later automatic Holley equipped cars.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 67350#1242

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2021, 02:57:21 PM »
Quote
I learned something new today. Apparently I have never seen a carburetor from that production run before because the details of the body casting are new to me. What is the casting number on the body? I knew about the common 1966 and 1967 versions of one casting number but not an in between.


Dan,  the casting number is 6R 2795-B.   Looks like they were progressively strengthening the areas prone to warping.  This iteration seems to be short lived.  You would think the casting number would have changed.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 03:03:33 PM by 67350#1242 »
67 Coupe SJ 11/16/66
67 GT350 SJ 2/01/67

Offline Dan Case

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2021, 03:48:47 PM »
Dan,  the casting number is 6R 2795-B.   Looks like they were progressively strengthening the areas prone to warping.  This iteration seems to be short lived.  You would think the casting number would have changed.

Thanks. It is great to learn a new detail. I have been working on the various 3259 family carburetors since the late 1970s and never seen a main body like yours. (That is why I call all my studies works in progress.)

I would not have expected a number change unless an engineering "C Change" was made in the design. (Here C Change means a major design change creating a new engineering part. Small miscellaneous changes would be just revision levels of relatively minor changes.)


I don't know about metal injection all that much but in the industry I spent 37 years and 1 month in we had dozens of plastic injection molding machines and I cannot guess how many molds. It was very common to have a mold for a new version of a part and then spend the next weeks fixing the product design. Even when finite element analysis was done on the part design, the mold, and the molding process issues at the manufacturing level would often turn up. A very common one was breakage of parts as they were ejected from molds. The tool and die shop we had in house would make radii bigger and very often add stiffening ribs and or gussets not for product service life but to get freshly molded parts out of the molds without stress whitening, deformation, or fractures. Every damaged part was a productivity loss cost in time and money. Adding a tiny amount of material as bigger radii, new ribs, or gussets was cheap compared to lost productivity. Very rarely was it a finished part field failure but they did happen and molds got tweaked some more.   The result was a mold with a number and a part with a number molded into it and several drawing revisions. No matter what happened to the mold and part design the numbers stayed the same while drawings for parts and tools changed revision level.


One Cobra part example I illustrate often is the drive end alternator cases for Cobra assembly line alternators. The alternators a 1963 engineering file designation, were introduced in 1963 Galaxie 427 powered cars with transistor ignition, and used again in CSX2201 onward Cobras. The original drive end case design suffered field failures in the form of cracking at screw bosses in 1963. For 1964 model year cases the mold was modified to make the offending areas thicker metal and add two long gussets to each screw boss, the breakage apparently ended. The 1964 version of drive end case has the exact same engineering, sales, and quick reference numbers as the 1963 model year version. "Same" part, two revision levels. 


Another Cobra related part was the fuel bowls for E. Weber 48 IDA 2C family carburetors. The original drawings done in 1963 and the early carburetors made in 1964 (and maybe 1965) did not include a stiffening rib in the fuel bowl wall under the inlet. One day new bowls showed up with stiffening ribs and current models made today still have the rib. After studying bowls with and without ribs and marks left on bodies during manufacturing I believe Weber was probably losing some number of just cast bowls just getting the parts out of the die cast mold. I believe, I have no factory documentation, the rib was added to deal with such a manufacturing problem. The Weber part number did not change when the rib as added to the design.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 03:51:17 PM by Dan Case »
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Offline Bossbill

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2022, 01:51:27 PM »
Dan -- Is there a typical carb base plate (to intake) gasket used in the 66-67 time frame on Shelbys?
I'm really interested in the color.
The picture above shows a black base plate gasket.
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline Bossbill

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2022, 10:43:46 PM »
Was there some question about the 721? Was the question about the dash pot or the carb?

Is there a listing about which carbs got which metering plate? I started reading about the primary 3903 and found it on my car rather than the 4756.
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline Dan Case

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2022, 11:25:55 AM »
Dan -- Is there a typical carb base plate (to intake) gasket used in the 66-67 time frame on Shelbys?
I'm really interested in the color.
The picture above shows a black base plate gasket.

Good question. I have not seen a factory installed one since the 1970s and at the time such detail was not important.

Service parts wise:
The May 31, 1965 Shelby parts book lists two different gaskets mentioned as GT350 base gaskets:
"C5ZA-9447-A Gasket, Carb To Manifold 1M/S"

"S1MS-9447-A Gasket, Carb. To Manifold, Thick"

The December 23, 1966 Shelby parts book has two listings:
"64/65 ALL 289/ S1CS-9447-A GASKET-CARB TO MANIFOLD? Which might have new engine assembly gasket marked "ED ECZ-9447-B IDT" that Ford installed on the High Performance 260 engine family or its service replacement. The ECZ-9447-B part was replaced in service by the B7A-9447-B gasket. Or it could have been the C2AZ-9447-E listed by Ford (Bob Mannel?s book) for 4V Fairlanes (and Cobras of course) with HP289 engines.

"64/66 ALL 289/ S1MS-9447-A GASKET-CARB-HEAT RESISTANT"
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 03:01:57 PM by Dan Case »
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.

Offline Dan Case

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Re: The Holley Carburetor Company(R) "3259" Family of Carburetors.
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2022, 11:43:43 AM »
Was there some question about the 721? Was the question about the dash pot or the carb?

Is there a listing about which carbs got which metering plate? I started reading about the primary 3903 and found it on my car rather than the 4756.

I have a blank column in my details data base for the 721 run. I would like to study an unrestored unit from that run.

I have two runs I do not have data on. I do have:
- The 1964 prototypes and production runs 4B2, 4B5, and 513 used the 3903 marked assemblies.
- I have blank spaces in my database for metering block assemblies for production runs 552 and 571.
- The 503 and later runs in my file used the 4756 marked assemblies.

Does anybody have unrestored carburetors from the the 552 and 571 runs to inspect?
Dan
1964 Cobra owner since 1983, Cobra crazy since I saw my first one in the mid 1960s in Huntsville, AL.