Author Topic: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations  (Read 8856 times)

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2018, 06:36:02 PM »
On the subject of the stampings on the driver side of the main body of the master cylinders I have not idea of the purpose or pattern as of yet.
 
Do have examples of NOS with the stampings for 67-70 applications.  Not all are Mustang examples but they are examples of new Ford parts - not rebuilts. So these are not all 2227161 but they could be used as evidence of a practice from the same suppliers and workers during a time period. 

Even though we have this evidence we can't be certain of when they were produced and in turn put into the service replacement pool of parts. If we understood the stampings then we might be able to figure out a date and then when this practice was started.

Not sure if posting the stampings would help. If the consciences is that it would - I will  :)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 06:41:52 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Mike_B_SVT

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2018, 08:45:10 PM »
Not sure if posting the stampings would help. If the consciences is that it would - I will  :)

Couldn't hurt, right?

Thanks Bob, and everyone, I appreciate the info and input!
Mike B.

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1 of 354 in Sonic Blue

1970 Cougar Eliminator (Competition Gold / Black Decor Interior), 428SCJ, Ram-Air, 4-speed w/ Hurst shifter
Built: Dearborn, Oct 6th, 1969
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2018, 11:55:24 PM »
Couldn't hurt, right?

You never know    ::)

Here you go. Though they are not all very clear it appears there were single and two line versions

67  cast - 2227081




C8OZ-2140-A




C8OZ-2140-A




C9AZ-2140-D




C90Z-2140-B




D0AZ-2140-C




D0xxxxxx

Jeff Speegle

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Offline Anghelrestorations

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2018, 01:25:27 PM »
Bob Gaines....Im traveling now in CA but have some stuff at mt shop that I think decodes some of the stampings from Bendix. 
Marcus Anghel
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2018, 04:16:33 PM »
I'm in negotiation with this master for the Shelby.  Ok, it's in my hands with a TBD price.

The bottom and sides look right with the correct numbers. Still have to take it apart to check on rebuildability. And yes, it has the cast pimple over the front port.
Two things.

Is this amount of casting flash on the nose normal?

What is the wrench size of the 'small' hex bolt as I will make one on the lathe (any markings on head)?

Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2018, 05:02:37 PM »
I'm in negotiation with this master for the Shelby.  Ok, it's in my hands with a TBD price.

The bottom and sides look right with the correct numbers. Still have to take it apart to check on rebuildability. And yes, it has the cast pimple over the front port.
Two things.

Is this amount of casting flash on the nose normal?

What is the wrench size of the 'small' hex bolt as I will make one on the lathe (any markings on head)?
It doesn't appear to have a dimple over the front port .You should be able to see a defined dimple about 1/16 tall and there is none in the picture. From the angle of the picture you should be able to see it if it is there the way it needs to be.  Although the other characteristics are there the dimple is the most visible of them . Yes on some can have more casting flash then others. and Yes some are a easy rebuild (I haven't had that kind of luck) and others have to be sleeved. you can't tell until you open them up. Most need a lot of work just to open them up to see.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2018, 05:05:20 PM »
It doesn't appear to have a dimple over the front port .You should be able to see a defined dimple about 1/16 tall and there is none in the picture. From the angle of the picture you should be able to see it if it is there the way it needs to be.  Although the other characteristics are there the dimple is the most visible of them . Yes on some can have more casting flash then others. and Yes some are a easy rebuild (I haven't had that kind of luck) and others have to be sleeved. you can't tell until you open them up. Most need a lot of work just to open them up to see.
Also the most common hex head stop bolt seen on 67's is 3/8 wrench size. There is also a large version.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2018, 06:38:27 PM »
Thanks Bob.

It does have the dimple but the odd angle and flash obliterated it.
I've attached a pic of it so that others can see it too.

I did have to use some AeroKroil (super penetrant) to get the snap ring out. Also put a lot in all the holes. Let soak.

Punch in the aluminum front piston and turn with sharp edge snap ring pliers so the sharp edges dig into the aluminum internal hole. Popped right out.

The dome bolt required a fair amount of heat from a propane plumbing air torch around the raised edge of the casting. Then it came out.
Interesting nose on the dome screw.

The rear piston stayed in and I didn't want to damage the snap ring area by slamming it down that direction so I took a 1 foot long drill bit and drilled a hole in the aluminum piston. A 5" screw and a small slide hammer got that one out.

The lower portion of the bore is too pitted to use. A guy 20 mi from here does sleeving for $100, so off it goes!

[added]
Anyone have a closeup pic of the small bolt? Installed or not.

The bolt I pulled out of my master is a 5/16x18 dome head with a tip (to hold the secondary piston back).
I'm looking for a hex head bolt to whittle down in a lathe as a replacement.

The standard 5/16x18 bolt that Ford uses is the water pump bolt with washer-head.
The washer head would be required in the master cylinder application for the o-ring seal.
However, the water pump bolt has 1/2" flats, not 3/8".
Any standard bolt of 5/16x18 size would have 1/2" flats.

In order to have 3/8" flats, that would be one odd bolt.
Or the early master has a much smaller threaded opening in the master?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 07:45:18 PM by Bossbill »
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2018, 02:25:07 PM »
It appears there is more to the master situation than just 'small hex', 'domed allen' and 'large hex'.

If your master has the small 3/8" wrench flats 'small hex' it also sports a 1/4-28 threaded hole and stop bolt.
If your master has the 'domed allen' it has a 5/16-18 threaded hole and stop bolt.
I can't say for sure, but if it has a 'large hex' I assume it has 1/2" wrench flats as that is the standard head size for a 5/16-18 bolt.

Please note that I've had limited sampling so I suggest we get more information on the topic.

Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline krelboyne

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2018, 08:27:31 PM »
It appears there is more to the master situation than just 'small hex', 'domed allen' and 'large hex'.

If your master has the small 3/8" wrench flats 'small hex' it also sports a 1/4-28 threaded hole and stop bolt.
If your master has the 'domed allen' it has a 5/16-18 threaded hole and stop bolt.
I can't say for sure, but if it has a 'large hex' I assume it has 1/2" wrench flats as that is the standard head size for a 5/16-18 bolt.

Please note that I've had limited sampling so I suggest we get more information on the topic.

I can't say for sure, but if it has a 'large hex' I assume it has 1/2" wrench flats as that is the standard head size for a 5/16-18 bolt.

Confirmed! 1/2 inch hex head bolt has 5/16-18 or 5/16-NC threads. That is my only current example.
Scott Behncke - Carcheaologist
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Offline preaction

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2018, 12:42:27 AM »
The bolt in the bottom of the master cylinder is commonly known as a button head cap screw.
8F02R218047-  July 18 1968   Dearborn

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2018, 01:09:37 AM »
The bolt in the bottom of the master cylinder is commonly known as a button head cap screw.
What about the ones that have a hex head? Not to split hairs but button head cap screw is just one of the names it is known by .  I think that you will find that a more descriptive and just as common name it is known by is a "stop bolt" which is a description of it's purpose. The type of stop bolt ( button head, small hex ,large hex)is added to complete the description. For example 67 and some 68's are seen with the small hex head stop bolt master. Many later 68, 69 and 70 got the button head stop bolt master. I am not clear where the large hex head master fits in.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline preaction

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2018, 02:23:33 AM »
I agree Bob the socket head cap screw only refers to the shape of the top of the bolt. The details.
8F02R218047-  July 18 1968   Dearborn

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2018, 03:18:21 PM »
As another data point, after you pull the male flare out of the ports I'm seeing 3/8-24 and 1/2-20 threads.
These clean up with a standard tap.

Mine also have faint stampings on the port side that were only visible after some glass media blasting. A fresh coat of paint and these will probably disappear.
Bill
Concours  Actual Ford Build 3/2/67 GT350 01375
Driven      6/6/70 0T02G160xxx Boss 302
Modified   5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 347 Terminator-X 8-Stack
Race        65 2+2 Coupe conversion

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 2227161 Master Cylinder Variations
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2018, 06:09:21 PM »
Though not 100% like an original Bendix 2227161, reproductions are on the marketplace that are very accurate in a majority of the basic details. Great alternative, I suppose...while a person waits out an affordable original, which at this time, certain date-stamping codes are not even nailed down yet on. (Referring to the stampings on the sides of the reservoir, nobody seems clear on that just yet so even if you run down what LOOKS right by description: Buyer Beware! One day it might not be "correct" after all!)

NOS units are all but gone or fetch very high prices (as one currently for sale on eBay will likely sell over $350).
USED are also difficult to locate since so many were traded in over the years and most of the time need re-sleeved.

I have an original Used One, it was pitted inside the bore a bit too. I will find out if it needs sleeved after all when I go to bleed the brakes (pitting not where the seals ride on a "full pedal") so in the end, if my original used one "leaks" or "leaks-down", I will probably just replace it with one of these and shelf the other one. I know for sure, I will NOT be paying over $300 for one, not for a basic Coupe application, not considering the current understanding and my current understanding of MCA rules on this item.

PICS attached below
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments