Author Topic: Monte Carlo bar?  (Read 2175 times)

Offline sed6

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Monte Carlo bar?
« on: August 20, 2017, 01:31:51 AM »
My 66 is relatively new to me. Showing it next week in KS. This just dawned on me, is my monte carlo bar a factory item? Maybe something the dealer would have installed? Am I going to lose points for it in the CD class? If so which is worse, the bar in place or the discolored/scratched paint underneath if I remove it (no time to touch it up)? Here's a pic. And while I'm at it what else do you see that I'm going to get points off for? Thanks!


Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 02:22:52 AM »
It wasn't a factory option.

Probably lose points for it in concours class.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 02:25:34 AM »
A quick look... all your fasteners are the wrong finish, most should be phosphate/oil in the engine bay.  Incorrect hoses/clamps.  Missing wiring strap on RH shock tower.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2017, 02:44:06 AM »
My 66 is relatively new to me. Showing it next week in KS. This just dawned on me, is my monte carlo bar a factory item? Maybe something the dealer would have installed? Am I going to lose points for it in the CD class? If so which is worse, the bar in place or the discolored/scratched paint underneath if I remove it (no time to touch it up)? Here's a pic. And while I'm at it what else do you see that I'm going to get points off for? Thanks!
The Monte Carlo bar is not assemblyline or factory unless your car is a GT350.  It is highly unlikely a dealer would have a genuine Monte Carlo bar handy to install when the car was new before being sold to the first owner. Shelby American was virtually the only one installing them on Mustangs at the time and stock would not typically be widely distributed. The " Dealer installed " justification is a over used and abused term to justify anything that is out of the ordinary. It is pretty meaningless without supporting factual evidence. More then likely it was previous owner added. Probably a wash if the deduction would be any more or less then the deduction for the chipped paint. Ether way it should only be minor. you  might be able to get someone to swallow the "Dealer installed" Monte Carlo bar but you will have a hard time selling the "dealer installed" justification on modified 67 and latter Master cylinder. I would paint your shocks black. FYI regardless of my critique I think your engine compartment looks very good.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 03:11:58 AM »
Bob... the dual reservoir master cylinders are allowed in concours driven class for 65-66 cars.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 03:35:23 AM »
Bob... the dual reservoir master cylinders are allowed in concours driven class for 65-66 cars.
Then one less thing to worry about. The coil wire is backwards. The straight boot goes to the coil and the right angle boot goes to the cap.You will have to re-position the coil sticker when you make the change.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 03:40:24 AM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline ChrisV289

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2017, 07:16:59 AM »
You have one 65 horn and one 66 horn. I know there was some discussion about there being a maybe a mismatch in early production but not sure.
Chris
1965 Honey Gold Fastback (SJ 10/29/64)
1965 Caspian Blue Fastback (SJ 06/03/65)
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Offline carlite65

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2017, 08:40:51 AM »
you asked.....the distributor advance appears incorrect. has a rubber line instead of metal. the + battery cable cover is an older reproduction. it is too red. battery is a die hard...........that's 6 points there. no sound deadner/sealer on firewall. alos don't believe the valve covers will cut it either. you asked........
5F09C331248

Offline sed6

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2017, 11:13:46 AM »
you asked........

Indeed I did! If I don't hear it today I'll hear about it next week :) Speaking of, when I write in for my score sheet, how much detail should I expect? You said one horns 65 and the other 66, should I expect that sort of detail on the judging sheet or will I read simply "incorrect horns" or maybe no comments at all and I'm just the  missing points?

Here to make it more fun... 6R09A107542.  63B V 64 14J 1 6
Factory GT with Air, PS, Rally Pac and a Cobra dress up kit.

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2017, 12:33:23 PM »
You have one 65 horn and one 66 horn. I know there was some discussion about there being a maybe a mismatch in early production but not sure.
San Jose was using up 65 inventory at least into October of 65 as my 66 GT Fastback has a 65 style horn.
You said one horns 65 and the other 66, should I expect that sort of detail on the judging sheet or will I read simply "incorrect horns" or maybe no comments at all and I'm just the  missing points?
There are two ways of looking at the horns for judging purposes. If they are different years from that factory, a judge that does not know about that "minor" detail will deduct points. If they are the same and a judge, knowing they should be different, will deduct points. It's sometimes a lose-lose situation. As a path to the lesser of two evils, I would make both horns the 66 style to avoid a loud discussion with the judges.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2017, 03:27:40 PM »
It's a Sept build '66 model year.  I absolutely would not change them if I knew they were original.  I'd take the point deduction and not worry about it.  Although, I would make efforts to educate the judges as they normally should ask before judging if there is anything unusual or not typical with the car.

Been going through a similar situation with the 64.5 pace car I restored.  There was no sign of a LH side shock tower specification decal.  When I started looking at other early production cars, I wasn't seeing any on original unrestored cars.  Usually the judges will accept this so long as it's explained and pictures to back it up.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2017, 08:50:29 PM »
It's a Sept build '66 model year.  I absolutely would not change them if I knew they were original.  I'd take the point deduction and not worry about it.  Although, I would make efforts to educate the judges as they normally should ask before judging if there is anything unusual or not typical with the car.

+1  If it helps I have a number of original examples around and before your car was assembled at San Jose with the early/65 horns.  Have your documentation in hand and organized and present the findings before the team starts.

...........And while I'm at it what else do you see that I'm going to get points off for? Thanks!

I take it that your car doesn't have a 71 or 72 DSO

You have another dozen or more things to try and correct prior to the show. Allot of easy things (some others have mentioned, missing wire retainers, dum dum on the washer nozzles, lack of sealer on firewall, where the black engine compartment paint transitions to body color at the top rear of the engine compartment, bolt finishes, incorrect bolts (like the ones for the horns & possibly the shock tower support ones), AC valve shut off caps missing, shock color, looks like breather also.


Your choice of dress up kit and what the judges might allow in that class might be interesting given the valve covers you have.   ::)

Not going to be easy to fix other things (the drivers fender) shown in the picture but you can greatly improve your score correcting the  "little" details
If you don't get them correct this time you'll have time before the next show.

That's enough to consider right now. This is not meant to be rough just responding to your request and you have allot of things that are right. :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 09:15:03 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline sed6

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 10:21:46 PM »
Thanks all! I found a single horn in the parts box that came with the car so I'm guessing it was inop and replaced with the wrong one. I can fix a couple of the small things before the show. I'm going to have the car a long time so I have plenty of time to get things right in the future. I am way too noob to argue anything with the judges at this stage in the game. Jeff, I am curious what you see wrong with the driver fender?

Offline rodster

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2017, 10:56:09 PM »
Thanks all! I found a single horn in the parts box that came with the car so I'm guessing it was inop and replaced with the wrong one. I can fix a couple of the small things before the show. I'm going to have the car a long time so I have plenty of time to get things right in the future. I am way too noob to argue anything with the judges at this stage in the game. Jeff, I am curious what you see wrong with the driver fender?

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=1399.msg7072#msg7072  ;)

NotJeff  ;D
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Monte Carlo bar?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2017, 11:05:55 PM »
...................Jeff, I am curious what you see wrong with the driver fender?



The raised triangle reliefs in the inner fender lip didn't go into use until after the start of 1966.  Earliest I've got them on are fenders stamped in mid Jan 1966 approx 5 months after your car was built.  Common mistake when replacing a fender that has been damaged.


Example of a late (for the earlier fender design) San Jose car with a projected build date of about  Jan 27th (6R07A159012)
One of the last cars I have pictures without them. Fender was dated Dec 23rd 1965




#6 on my "get to" list ::)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 11:09:46 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)