ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on April 27, 2016, 07:40:50 AM
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Looking to identify and source better Concours quality STRIPED vacuum hoses along with color coded markings on the vacuum rotary switches (at heater control panel) & color coded markings on the diapham pods (actuators).
Many vendors are selling cheap "Get-er-dunn" hose sets for under the dash but they are nothing like what I removed from my example. (originals were striped ~Reproductions look to be tagged, see picture)
My originals are too old to use again, I had trimmed & cut the ends already several times so now too short.
I'll post some pictures & I will get some pages from vacuum charts (service manuals) to help others.
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Some pictures of the hoses & vacuum switch from my 11/2/66 actual build date, San Jose coupe, Marti Report confirmed factory Select-Aire car.
I want to say (from memory) I recall there used to be color dots on the various vacuum pods or actuators too, though I see no sign of those colored markings today. Maybe others can look to see if this could be verified, one way or another, on other original examples?
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I do not recall ever seeing the color dots on the actuators, just on the control panel as you have shown. I have been able to find useable original hose sets that were fully striped.
Marty
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I do not recall ever seeing the color dots on the actuators, just on the control panel as you have shown. I have been able to find useable original hose sets that were fully striped.
Marty
Thanks on the actuator dots. Something else I do not need to duplicate ;)
Yes, it would be nice to locate an original set of usable hoses...I wonder if WCCC might have a set...I didn't see any original or reproduction versions available at their site.
Re: Actuators...I have found them to be date coded...A few of mine seem to have been changed. (incorrect dates ~ I remember now having changed out 1 of them)
I HAD 3 spares and two tested bad, now down to ONE spare.
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A few more pictures. I'll upload a few more as everything comes together but here are a couple of BEFORE/AFTER pics. I needed parts from a donor (evaporator core in particular)
Mice can be SO destructive...sure am glad I kept the car stored in a garage since it arrived from So.California...it USED to be rust-free and rodent free...this is what 15 years unattended can do to a car. :'(
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I used a mityvac to test the actuators to verify they worked before installation to save me from going in there after all is installed. :) Also Im just about to refill with R-12 for the first time and see if it runs cold.
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I used a mityvac to test the actuators to verify they worked before installation to save me from going in there after all is installed. :)
Good point. This is how I tested all of mine. Motorcraft replacement actuators that are "similar" are available. Search "Motorcraft YH-61" to locate them. Current pricing begins in the lower to mid $40 range each. A little work may be required to make them look anything like original though.
The two actuators mounted to the AC/Defroster Diffuser and the Heater/AC selection modes are burried pretty deeply into the car. (you cannot even see them from under the dash looking for them). The other two are easily accessed if ever needed to replace. (total of 4 actuators used plus the heater shut-off valve & shut off valve switch) I might be adapting a couple of the NEW actuators into my final assembly. I think I would rather have a few "new" ones hidden up there than having either of those hard to reach ones "fail" shortly afterwards. I suppose if I was building a Thoroghbred example instead of an Occasional Driver, the better choice would be using the "tested good", date correct originals anyways. For me, I think "peace of mind" is worth the compromise.
I also vacuum tested my original hoses & heater valve cut-off switch. My heater cut-off switch, C6OZ-18C311-A, checked bad. NOS ones are occasionally available and reproductions are out there too. Most, if not all of the reproductions do not include the mounting bracket. I ordered a NOS one up (with bracket) and am awaiting it's arival for testing all components plugged together, re-using as much of my original "striped" hoses as possible. Both of my original hoses that went through the firewall (purple stripe & no stripe) to underhood connections "failed" the vacuum test. I cannot SEE the holes but they do not hold vacuum.
I have a NOS Motorcraft Heater control valve I bought several years ago that I was planning on using. My original is long-gone. Maybe if somebody could post a picture or two of an original assembly line valve & bracket here, it might help me or others with choosing a good replacement part.
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I test the actuators by manually depressing the diaphragm then pressing my finger over the nipple, if the diaphragm expands there is a leak. Low tech but it works.
Here is a picture of a unrestored early 67 heater control valve.
Marty
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I test the actuators by manually depressing the diaphragm then pressing my finger over the nipple, if the diaphragm expands there is a leak. Low tech but it works.
Here is a picture of a unrestored early 67 heater control valve.
Marty
Thanks Marty for the picture of the Assemblyline valve. I know it has been pictured in other threads too but nice to have it tied in directly here.
As far as "testing" actuators, I agree with the manual way of testing them as a good way of finding "already defective" ones. This is a fairly good basic practice (I did this too initially) One principle comes to mind though...These actuators can be 50 years old. A "Mighty-Vac" test pushes them beyond the limits of an engines manifold vacuum (usually under 20 inches Hg.), potentially taking an "at risk", maybe dry & brittle actuator diaphragm and possibly helping it along into a failure. A "NEW" or extremely well preserved original will easily take the over 20 inches Hg. the pump can produce. To me, this is kind of like the Radiator Testing I used to do back in the day...If a radiator held 20-lbs. air pressure during a shop leak test (submerged under water tank), that radiator was much less likely to fail within a year than one tested at radiator cap pressure. (say a 15 lbs. test)
Without trying to sound like a know-it-all...A basic test is always a good start but a fully functioning test with all hoses in place, all switches connected...basically EVERYTHING connected, performing a "gauged" bench test could save a lot of frustration later (say once everything is installed in the car). For example, I did a basic test my vacuum switch for the heater control valve. It passed. When I bolted it to the case and began testing things with hoses connected to the main selector switch & all actuators, that is when it all seemed to go to crap. (failure after failure) Still, the actuators are all good, none have failed yet, even with a "fully pumped" Mighty-Vac...but several other items are testing bad. It's probably worth a little extra time IMHO. It sure was for me.
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Information FORD supplied in their "Service Training" vacuum diagram book. It shows the early style reservoir like what is found on my 11/2/66 built San Jose example. 4th image is of the "later" version where the hoses are up higher. Colored makes it easier to see, connection points are the same.
NOTE: Tilt steering column connection on SOME examples with Select-Aire have been found "T"d into the "black" hose a few inches inside of the cowl under dash (or the "no stripe hose"). OTHER examples, or later '67 examples more often times have a 2nd canister mounted under the battery tray. (the updated version supplied a larger, more reliable 1/4" supply to the tilt wheel system that was much better vacuum supply than the earlier 1/8" version with the underdash connection)
Please also understand, this note about a Tilt-away connection under dash is based upon extensive research of original examples and Ford documentation done to date and discussed within other threads at this site. Try the search feature for any further updates or details within the (those) other thread(s).
I'll try and supply a better image of my original hoses after I get them cleaned up. MAYBE somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who makes up such hoses so that MAYBE we can get somebody to make us up some good quality reproductions (to obsolete those crappy-looking ones they are selling now :( >:(
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Inline Tube sells 5/32" striped vacuum line by the foot. Several colors and looks to be good quality. They advertise as being for GM application.
I'm not sure of the size used on the Mustangs but this looks close. You can buy it on EBay. Search striped vacuum hose.
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Inline Tube sells 5/32" striped vacuum line by the foot. Several colors and looks to be good quality. They advertise as being for GM application.
I'm not sure of the size used on the Mustangs but this looks close. You can buy it on EBay. Search striped vacuum hose.
Thanks, those look very similar at least. 67 Mustangs use 6 different colors of striped hoses in the Select-Aire air conditioning systems. Below are the lengths and color codes (where available) measured from the original hoses removed from my 11/2/66 built San Jose example
White striped 60 inches
Red 24 inches plus 12 inches* (*this 2nd original red hose was replaced, NOT available to measure)
Light Blue 30 inches
Black 46 inches plus 36 inches* (*estimated length of hose going through cowl, snipped a few times)
Purple 40 inches plus 12 inches* (*this 2nd original purple hose was replaced, NOT available to measure)
Green 36 inches
Notice in the diagrams previously shared, there may be two versions (early/late?) using obviously different lengths of hoses. If anyone can help clarify if/when this early/late situation ever even occurred, maybe post build information from other examples here.
It looks as though my early Nov. built SJ example was the "longer version as seen in image #3 of that previous post with Ford drawings. This is the type where the green & white hoses run along the channel, first below the glove box, then switch back to above the glove box, running along with the right side AC register duct. The later (shorter) version looks to run along the seam of the heater case (as seen in image #4 of previous post)
I'll eventually fill I've now filled in the blanks above with what lengths I end up using. found on my system. (basing those lengths off of my original, somewhat shortened hoses for minor "snippet" repairs over the years.)
You know...it's not funny that the G.M. guys seem to get more of these odd items going first...Once again, they pull through first with a better line of reproduction parts.
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I've updated my previous comment with the lengths I have found on my original hoses.
I'm hoping to find some way to replace at least the hoses that come through the cowl, one with black (or no) stripe and one with a purple stripe since these are the most visable hoses of the system.
As mentioned earlier, it is a shame that such "striped" hoses are not reproduced. I imagine every Ford product with factory air conditioning in the 60's would benefit from these hoses being reproduced in a more authentic version than what is presently available.
The hoses Inline Tube is selling have "Ribs" (for G.M. applications) while the ones I have found on my '67 do not. They also do not sell "Purple" ones that I can find online.
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If the purple hose is still in reasonably good condition I would just switch ends so the purple stripe shows.
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If the purple hose is still in reasonably good condition I would just switch ends so the purple stripe shows.
Not enough evidence of "purple" left to consider this. Maybe for the underdash "T" to the vacuum switch for the heater valve but not nice enough for under hood location. (good idea though ;) )
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Here is a picture of a unrestored early 67 heater control valve.
Marty
I have found a few NOS Fairlane Heater Valves, slightly different impressions on the diaphragms. Obvious bracket difference that can be switched.
Have these been any sort of "accepted" replacement for majority of classes except Thoroughbred?
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I have found a few NOS Fairlane Heater Valves, slightly different impressions on the diaphragms. Obvious bracket difference that can be switched.
Have these been any sort of "accepted" replacement for majority of classes except Thoroughbred?
Depends on the judge and if they notice the differences. If they do, an owner or builder should expect some deduction so that you (the judge) can reward another owner that was able to find/or has a visually correct valve. But it looks like it is a much better choice than other choices and you should not receive a large deduction - one appropriate in a weighted deduction judging system
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This is the best I could come up with in the end,,,
I might keep my eyes peeled for an original but seriously what's the odds of one of those being any good.
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Inline Tube sells 5/32" striped vacuum line by the foot. Several colors and looks to be good quality. They advertise as being for GM application.
I'm not sure of the size used on the Mustangs but this looks close. You can buy it on EBay. Search striped vacuum hose.
As mentioned earlier, it is a shame that such "striped" hoses are not reproduced. I imagine every Ford product with factory air conditioning in the 60's would benefit from these hoses being reproduced in a more authentic version than what is presently available.
The hoses Inline Tube is selling have "Ribs" (for G.M. applications) while the ones I have found on my '67 do not. They also do not sell "Purple" ones that I can find online.
Save your money on any attempt at using the GM style hoses with stripes. These are not only a "Swing & a miss", but actually more along the lines of a "Shut-out"! WAY to thick of rubber and as mentioned earlier, original colored striping not all available.
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This is the best I could come up with in the end,,,
I might keep my eyes peeled for an original but seriously what's the odds of one of those being any good.
Pretty good odds IMO. I see them all of the time. Many originals are still usable you have to first test to see if it holds vacuum (suck on nipple ) and then see if the valve inside is movable when vacuum is applied. You typically have to restore the appearance for show. To replate it takes a little thinking outside the box. The brass base has to be protected so it doesn't take the zinc dichromate plating of the diaphragm . Of course you unscrew the firewall bracket from the brass base and replate the bracket separate . Replace a new O ring between the base and the bracket when it comes time to assemble it. You need to neutralize any remaining plating solution that may have found it's way on ether side of the internal diaphragm and then it wouldn't hurt to lubricate . I put a cap on the diaphragm nipple and you could rig up a temporary plastic cover for the bottom of the base in place of the metal bracket .
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Can anyone identify what color vacuum hoses were used with this option, the hoses in the engine compartment. One manual I have seen calls out one green and white stripe and one black. I have never seen them on a car.
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There has been other discussion about these hoses in other threads. To my knowledge, nobody at this time reroduces similar hoses.
You might give WCCC a call since Cougars also use this option. I believe they have somebody who was making headlight vacuum hoses with correct markings and was considering making hoses for the Tilt Wheel cars too. One of the problems it seems is that there were early and late versions and to my understanding, since the hoses are basically cut to fit to help keep costs down, nobody has a sort of chart with what length of what color for what month of production. Also, a VERY limited target audience for such a huge investment of inventory.
There, that should be as accurate of my current understanding
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There is a guy in Canada with a shop called Critter Creek cougar restorations and he has a kit for sale with both hoses having a green and a white stripe on both hoses, I have not ever seen a hose for this application but both hoses having the same color marking doesn't seem right. WCCC considers these not in their inventory and rarely found. Its shocking at first when you see the price which is in Canadian dollars. :o
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The original hoses had a green and white stripe. As I remember the assembly manual call for 71 inches and 58 inches for 68. Jack Brooks of Dead Nuts On has reproduced them and has them in stock for around $45.00. His kit give you about 8 inches extra. Both hoses are striped the same. I'll attach a picture of a section of original hose and a picture of the reproduction on our 68 High Country Special.
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NPD seems to sell a pretty good reproduction tilt hose ("exact repro concours correct" they say)
https://www.npdlink.com/store/products/hose_vacuum_tilt_away_steering_column-199391-1.html
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Something to point out or remember from the other thread, varying locations of the vacuum canister or canisters can affect what is correct for different 1967 Applications. Probably at least 3 running changes seem to have occurred in 67, then add varying options like Select-Aire (or without), Cruise (or without) and you might see that there is no "One hose kit fits all" out there but knowing now oe of the hoses (green and white stripe) is available is great. If you have the canister under the battery, that takes two hoses going to it (as I recall) yet some very early versions may still have only a single canister and check valve by the hood hinge.
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Richard, where do you have the check valve for you car ? Also your car looks like the grand canyon compared to a car with a 390, thermactor, and a/c wow. :o
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Richard, where do you have the check valve for you car ? Also your car looks like the grand canyon compared to a car with a 390, thermactor, and a/c wow. :o
I have the oblong canister under the passenger hood hinge. The check valve was inline, near the heater control valve at the cowl. When I got my 67 in 1978, this was all disconnected and only the AC system was connected. Back then, I repaired the problems with the Tilt system but had no books on what was correct. That being said to qualify that my example may not be 100% accurate to use as an example to copy. One thing for sure though, it NEVER had a reservoir under the battery, ONLY the one back near the hinge. (battery tray has no holes and date code confirms the battery tray as original.)
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Thanks for the heads up, Im working with a battery tray vacuum canister which does not have a check built in. Mabye I will be putting it under the dash that would give it a very little bit more vacuum volume-until I learn otherwise thanks.
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Thanks for the heads up, Im working with a battery tray vacuum canister which does not have a check built in. Mabye I will be putting it under the dash that would give it a very little bit more vacuum volume-until I learn otherwise thanks.
What are you putting under the dash? The check valve? It should go where Richard said near the heater control valve. I believe if you have the under the battery tray set up you should have the built in check valve in the can. Here is a picture of a car built near the time that your was. The last picture is for Richard.
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Here is a diagram of what your car should have with the check valve in the can.
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Last time I needed one of these hoses I ended up finding a double white striped hose of equal length or greater and recolored (with a Sharpie) one of the stripes to green. Realize that this might not be an option for some of you but sharing the possibility
Here is a diagram of what your car should have with the check valve in the can.
Just as a reminder and for newer members that diagram can be found in the Library in the 67 section labeled
- 67 Tilt-Away Steering Column Vacuum and Electrical Components
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Jeff, I do see that as an acceptable way to go about it my concern was more about the correctness of the colors-white and green on both hoses- as being what to shoot for. ;D
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Just to add a little "twist" in regard to the hoses, I have attached a picture of the hoses that were on the setup that I purchased back in the mid-eighties. unfortunately, I wasn't wise enough back then to get all of the details concerning the car it came from - just that it was on a '67 Mustang. I personally have not seen any other hoses quite like these.
Bob
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Ignore the creative build your own heater hose atttempt but here is a fairly early 67 San Jose shot to add to the collection
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-280516142744.jpeg)
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If the purple hose is still in reasonably good condition I would just switch ends so the purple stripe shows.
Purple is hardest as like Marty pointed out the end that is in engine bay takes a beating
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This is the best I could come up with in the end,,,
I might keep my eyes peeled for an original but seriously what's the odds of one of those being any good.
Resurrecting this thread from last year, since part of it focuses on the topic of the '67 heater water control valve. My AC coupe's original piece (C7ZA-18C310-A) still holds vacuum and the valve functions OK, opening and closing hot water flow to the heater core. But... the valve now leaks a steady drip of coolant from the weep hole on the bottom of the diaphragm chamber. This may have come up before but haven't located if it's here somewhere: is there a service shop that offers a rebuild of this valve?
I'm also posting a WTB in the wanted ads, for anyone who wants to sell an original 67 water control valve.
Thanks,
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Resurrecting this thread from last year, since part of it focuses on the topic of the '67 heater water control valve. My AC coupe's original piece (C7ZA-18C310-A) still holds vacuum and the valve functions OK, opening and closing hot water flow to the heater core. But... the valve now leaks a steady drip of coolant from the weep hole on the bottom of the diaphragm chamber. This may have come up before but haven't located if it's here somewhere: is there a service shop that offers a rebuild of this valve?
Don't know anyone that professionally rebuilds these units. The uncrippling and recripping of the vacuum pod would likely not look acceptable when done
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Marty (or anyone else), do you know of a source for this clip/retainer? I've checked AMK and other soureces and can't seem to find it.
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Marty (or anyone else), do you know of a source for this clip/retainer? I've checked AMK and other soureces and can't seem to find it.
Many Ford products uses this item & can be found in Salvage yards or donor cars. A person could make one too out of tin and the plastic-coat products out there but you would need original specs to do that. Mine is not handy enough to measure but there are some guys who may have one handy. Hopefully, somebody else can chime in on it.
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I found a similar clip in my junk box. I believe the part number is 358362-S, as shown in the 67 Electrical Assembly Manual, AM0018 pg 76, and is used on A/C equipped Mustangs (all engines) from 67 thru 70, but I have found no supporting documentation, drawings or specs. If someone can measure the "grip" and overall length that would make identification easier. Pictures later. I have some appointments this morning first.
Jim
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Many Ford products uses this item & can be found in Salvage yards or donor cars. A person could make one too out of tin and the plastic-coat products out there but you would need original specs to do that. ...................
+1 In many cases the metal strap will need to be restored and recoated if you find one. For Dearborn applications in the 69+ years it can often ben caught up in some of the firewall coating /sealing pattern
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I believe the part number is 358362-S, as shown in the 67 Electrical Assembly Manual, AM0018 pg 76, and is used on A/C equipped Mustangs (all engines) from 67 thru 70, but I have found no supporting documentation, drawings or specs. If someone can measure the "grip" and overall length that would make identification easier. Pictures later.
Two pictures of what I have. The area where the hole is has been twisted, probably in removal. There is a small step as shown in the above installed drawing. The mounting hole diameter is 5/16 inch dia, the steel is 0.050 inch thick. Other measurements are as shown in the pictures. The installation in the referenced manual shows a screw, 42067-S8 (10-12X1/2hex) and washer, 44711-S8 (9flw, 0.198-0.208 in dia) are used. That combination indicates a compensation for the 5/16 inch dia mounting hole.
Jim
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In order to help direct this thread back to more of its original Topic (67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections), I offer the following attachments for your information. Unfortunately, it doesn't offer sources for the striped hoses.
Bob