ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on May 22, 2017, 09:07:27 AM
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I recently purchased yet ANOTHER set of NOS 14" Trim Rings C7ZZ-1210-A and once again received the narrower, 66 version. At least these had the stickers & boxes wihout any scratches or scrapes. These are claimed by the seller to have been in their possession since new in 1997 and ONLY opened for pictures prior to listing ::) :-\ Since these even had the correct paper stickers on them and do look to be what came in the boxes I received, I am beginning to have questions about what Ford may have been selling in the later days of carrying them.
So, is this simply yet another issue of Ford consolidated the inventory to a single Service part number? I do not have enough MPC's to investigate this.
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You also might search out (hopefully someone has a few copies) of the O S & Y manuals. These list the substitutions, one part number for another, Ford did through the years.
Have one or two somewhere but at the moment have no idea where they are packed away :(
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Richard, I did some research posted here:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15428.msg96442#msg96442
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Richard, I did some research posted here:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15428.msg96442#msg96442
John, did you notice a height difference in the ink-stamped trim ring vs. the paper tag label ring? (Set them side-by-side on the table)
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Can do when I get the used ones back from the polisher. He claims to be able to do the brushed finish so I have him doing a 68 version also.
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Another set of the white label C7ZZ-1210-A version showed up for sale on the Bay yesterday and like other versions found in recent years, only stand 2-inches tall (same as the C6ZZ versions)...it looks as though the later Service Parts may indeed have been the same parts, packaged under BOTH service part numbers.
I'm still searching for more of the "ink stamped" versions that are 2-1/4" tall...
UPDATE: This set I saw on eBay is already gone now...
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I just installed a set of NOS rings on a 67 S code fastback last Saturday, They had the paper tags so I assume that they were the two inch. I'll check them next time I work on the car.
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I just installed a set of NOS rings on a 67 S code fastback last Saturday, They had the paper tags so I assume that they were the two inch. I'll check them next time I work on the car.
Fitment to the center, chrome spokes is your clue ;) A "snug" fitment is correct, a "gap" would be incorrect. (this you could do without pulling one off)
Measurements shown in images taken from the "Now Sold" eBay listing I mentioned yesterday:
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The paper label ones I installed are 2 inches as well. Possibly Ford changed suppliers.
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Would these rings be different from the rings used on a 67 Cougar with styled steel wheels ?
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Re-visiting the old thread...
Would these rings be different from the rings used on a 67 Cougar with styled steel wheels ?
I would think these rings would be the same as a 67 Cougar, though that is likely better researched before assuming to be true (which I did NOT do the research on this).
I do see that Scott Drake is selling a reproduction (example given in this current eBay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scott-Drake-Wheel-Trim-Ring-1967-Mustang-14-Styled-Steel-Wheels/362482737298?epid=656061241&hash=item5465a7a092:g:ozYAAOSwEf5b5ZHu )
that claims to measure 2-1/4", which is what my ink-stamped (assemblyline) version measure.
Perhaps this is an alternative to chasing down usable original ones. Has anyone purchased any or do I nice again go out on a limb and run the risk of disappointment (as seems always the case in the RePop market)?
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I have asked a vendor about the Scott Drake 'SETS of 4', and the vendor I contacted said they are 2-inch tall...not what I want.
I also just called Mustangs Unlimited...Swing & amiss there too so I am back to hunting originals..
I quit hunting NOS after I found out the Service NOS are not assemblyline correct...This, after returning two full sets of the C7ZZ paper-labled ones...still looking for enough C7OA-1210-A to complete my tires/wheels over this winter.
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I have several originals at the polisher, enough for 2-3 cars. I need to "bump" him to remind him to get them going. They have been on the backburner. I hope to have you covered.
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I have several originals at the polisher, enough for 2-3 cars. I need to "bump" him to remind him to get them going. They have been on the backburner. I hope to have you covered.
Thanks John, good to know. I'll re-count what I have too. I know some have damage, minor as it may be, but some damage under the inner ring where the chrome polisher cannot get into but I'll take these out and see how well he does with them too. I think I have 3 usable and 3 with some damage of sorts...I need 5 and want 6 of them.
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I recently traded a C7 set to a friend for a set of C6.
During the trade, we were analyzing each one and did notice a height thickness difference. Neither set was all the same heights. Are you saying 67 is 2.25" tall and 66 is 2" tall?
I need to dig out the C6 set I received and remeasure them to see what I have and ask my friend how thick his C7 set is. I know they were not all the same.
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I recently traded a C7 set to a friend for a set of C6.
During the trade, we were analyzing each one and did notice a height thickness difference. Neither set was all the same heights. Are you saying 67 is 2.25" tall and 66 is 2" tall?
I need to dig out the C6 set I received and remeasure them to see what I have and ask my friend how thick his C7 set is. I know they were not all the same.
67' are actually about 2 1/8th inch tall and 66's are something like 1 7/8th tall. pictures of how a 66 fits a 67 wheel, how an ink stamped C7OA-1210 fits a 67 wheel and a tape measure of the same ink stamped ring.
Key issue at hand is that the NOS C7ZZ rings fit the 67 wheel like the C6ZZ rings. I saw a "restored" 67 GTA at the Chicago event last weekend with ill-fitting trim rings. It really stands out once you know.
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Richard : Glad you decided to re-visit this. When you first brought this up, I was going to respond referencing my OSI's (Jeff's "Y" must have been a typo), but I apparently got side tracked.
Before addressing the OSI Catalogs, I have a few observations / comments. Four or five years ago, John (67gta289) contacted me about an NOS set of trim rings that he had picked up, that had a "Part Number" on them that he couldn't find in any of his literature.
The "Part Number" was printed on a paper sticker on each trim ring as C7OA-1210-A. It didn't take long (with the help of the 1960-68 MPC) to conclude that the numbers on the stickers were not Part Numbers, but Engineering Numbers. This conclusion was prompted by the listing for the 1968 Trim Ring (copy attached) which for the 1968 Trim Ring notes that the Part Number is C8ZZ-1210-B, and it is "marked" C8OV-1210-B. One could then accordingly apply this reasoning that the 1967 Trim Ring would be "marked" C7OA-1210-A, and the 1966 Trim Ring "marked" C6OA-1210-A.
Also note in this listing, that for the 1966 (C6ZZ-1210-A) and 1967 (C7ZZ-1210-A) Trim Rings, there is no listing as to their height/ width ; only their OD and ID. Possibly Ford felt that the OD and ID were the "important" dimensions, and the height/ width could "fall where it may", thus accounting for suppliers furnishing the Service Parts in a 2" instead of 2-1/4" height/ width ??
Of course this then also leads to the thought that the Assembly Line Trim Rings were all 2-1/4" and the Service Parts all 2". It would be interesting to compare known Factory Trim Rings with known Service Part Trim Rings to see if this might have been the case.
Now, on to the Ford OSI Catalogs (example pages attached). For those who are not familiar with the OSI Catalogs, these books were published by Ford at least once a year, and many times two or three times a year, to list parts that had been "Obsoleted", "Superceded" by another part, or could be "Interchanged" with another part. These were designated respectively in the book as "NR" (not replaced), "R/B" (replaced by"), and "MW" (mix with). Each catalog covered a range of years (for example, Volume 4 covers 1967-1980, Volume 3 covers 1960-1967, Volume 2 covers 1955-1960 and Volume 1 covers before 1955). Thus a "Volume" would encompass several individual years. I have individual years of these from 1955, 1957. 1961 through 1972, 1974, 1976, 1979, 1981, 1987, and 1990. From what I have observed, these were issued once a year until 1962 (although I have yet to come across a 1956, 1958, 1959 or 1960 one), when they began being issued at least twice a year, most frequently in July and January. Some years, I have found them also issued in November, apparently depending on how many changes were made during a time period. An interesting thing about these OSI's is that they were not "single-year wonders". In other words, if a part were deemed "NR" in 1973, it would still show as "NR" in the 1979 OSI. Likewise, if say a C7ZZ part was "R/B" a C9AZ part in 1970, it would continue to be shown as such until it was either "R/B another Part Number (in which case all would still be shown), or was designated as "NR". What makes this "tough", is to know when the change actually occurred. For example, in my case, where I don't have a 1973 OSI Catalog, if a Part Number were shown as being "NR" in my 1974 OSI, but nit shown as such in my 1972 OSI, the best I could say would be that "sometime" between 1972 and 1974 that part was deemed "Obsolete". To add to the confusion is the condition that appears to exist that parts designated as "NR" seem to be "purged" from the system when a new Volume is released. Thus, not finding a Part Number prior to January 1967 noted as "NR" in any of the Volume 4 OSI's does not indicate that it is still available as it could have been designated as "NR" in a Volume 3 OSI.
Now that all still reading this know all you ever wanted to know about OSI Catalogs (and probably more than you wanted to know), let's take a look at the "Topic Part" in question ; the C7ZZ-1210-A.
I have looked in all of my OSI catalogs from 1966 through 1990 ( a total of 14 catalogs), and not only does the C7ZZ-1210-A not show as having been "Replaced By" another part or even a different Part Number (such as a change in suffix), but it also never appears as "NR" (interestingly, the same can be said for the C6ZZ-12410-A Trim Ring). Unfortunately, I have seen this occur with other parts, so no help there. That only leaves the option of checking the yearly Ford Price Books, yet the latest one I have is dated November, 1966. So, once again, no help. Possibly someone has some later price books in which this could be checked.
Bob
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Richard, this is a Scott Drake trim ring on a reproduction wheel. Gap is too big. I have to use these until I can find the correct ones.
John
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Richard : Glad you decided to re-visit this. When you first brought this up, I was going to respond referencing my OSI's (Jeff's "Y" must have been a typo), but I apparently got side tracked...
...let's take a look at the "Topic Part" in question ; the C7ZZ-1210-A.
I have looked in all of my OSI catalogs from 1966 through 1990 ( a total of 14 catalogs), and not only does the C7ZZ-1210-A not show as having been "Replaced By" another part or even a different Part Number (such as a change in suffix), but it also never appears as "NR" (interestingly, the same can be said for the C6ZZ-12410-A Trim Ring). Unfortunately, I have seen this occur with other parts, so no help there. That only leaves the option of checking the yearly Ford Price Books, yet the latest one I have is dated November, 1966. So, once again, no help. Possibly someone has some later price books in which this could be checked.
Bob
TY Bob, I am sure you put a lot of time in on the research too.
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Richard, this is a Scott Drake trim ring on a reproduction wheel. Gap is too big. I have to use these until I can find the correct ones.
John
Yes, your picture is what I typically see on the show field these days and essentially falls short of what was typical on the Dealership parking lot back in the day.
The crying shame is that enough of the assemblyline trim rings were on "Daily Drivers" for years and years, therefore damage of varying amounts and that it looks as though whatever Ford sold over the years as replacements, were simply NOT MADE the same as the ones used on the assemblyline. Perhaps even dating back to the early years.
I wonder what has been noticed on the other years between 68 and 69, if there was a noticeable fitment issue on the Service Replacement Trim Rings.