ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: ChrisV289 on June 01, 2017, 10:55:40 PM
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So I got my judging sheets back and I sent a question to the judge who judged my car and waiting to hear back but thought I would throw it out here. I didn't get dinged but they commented my strut rod washers were wrong. So here are pictures. The first two are the ones that were on the car that I took off in 2016 and put back on after soaking in evaporust. The bushings were original as they had the C4DA part number and the word FRONT debossed. The second picture is the Scott Drake reproduction that I gave to a friend since I didn't like the bushings with his name on it and were missing the FRONT detail. The next three pics are a NOS set I bought. As you can see all three washers are different. Will the real strut washers please stand up? Thoughts?
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1st pic is my June 65 convertible. 2ed is my Aug 64 coupe.
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1079 from Mike's Aug 64 coupe matches the Ford blueprint I have for the C2OA-3A142-D washer used on 62-65 Fairlane.
0632 from Mike's June 65 convt matches the Ford blueprint I have for the C5DA-3A141/2-A washer used on 64-65 Falcon and 65-66 Mustang.
Applications listed according to the June 68 MPC.
I have seen the C2OA on other early 64 Mustang's.
The 3rd image is from the NPD 65 Mustang with 1700 miles. 5T07T147XXX, scheduled build April 65.
Close examination appears to show very slight contour similar to the C5DZ washer but doesn't match it exactly.
Regards,
Scott
Edited for car info.
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Believe that there were two version for the early cars but at the moment don't know when the change (and where) the change took place
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So question on this; The ones on my car and even the NOS ones are different than what the blueprints state they should be and the low mileage one that NPD has are even different as well from the blueprint. So if someone was restoring a thoroughbred Mustang, where reproduction parts are not to be used and used the NOS bushing set washers (lets say the car was missing them), would they still get marked down for incorrect washers even though they are NOS but not like the Ford blueprint?
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So question on this; The ones on my car and even the NOS ones are different than what the blueprints state they should be and the low mileage one that NPD has are even different as well from the blueprint. So if someone was restoring a thoroughbred Mustang, where reproduction parts are not to be used and used the NOS bushing set washers (lets say the car was missing them), would they still get marked down for incorrect washers even though they are NOS but not like the Ford blueprint?
I think you answered your own question. If they are incorrect then they should be deducted for. NOS is not a guarantee of full credit if your showing a car in any Concours related class. Neither is following the assembly manual.
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Chris,
The ones from your "NOS" sets appear to be the Fairlane C2OA washers.
Regards,
Scott
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Chris,
Just thought that I would throw this out there...could they have been talking about the strut rod nuts? The ones in your pictures are incorrect. Lots of NOS sets that I have seen do not have the correct nuts.
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Chris,
Just thought that I would throw this out there...could they have been talking about the strut rod nuts? The ones in your pictures are incorrect. Lots of NOS sets that I have seen do not have the correct nuts.
+1, I have honestly never paid attention to differences in the washer design. The only thing I normally check for is if they are phosphate finish with the correct looking shape (not smooth like a repro) and have the correct nut as Brant mentioned.
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I took a look at the subject by going through my pictures and can only offer the following after going through cars built at San Jose in the 170000-182000 or so range.
5R17090x
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-120717160211-7250911.jpeg)
5R17621x
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-120717160214-72521784.jpeg)
5R18005x
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-120717160217-7253358.jpeg)
5R18178x
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-120717160219-7254656.jpeg)
And one from a VIN unknown example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-120717160220-7255553.jpeg)
Sorry for the low resolution and dirty parts
Did find what appears to be a similar washer on a 65 NJ built car 5T15463x
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-120717160221-72561746.jpeg)
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Just thought I'd add what i found while going through inventory:
I found 4 versions of 65-66 strut rod washers. Since I unfortunately don't have the data on the cars that these were taken off of, I can only make educated assumptions. Attached are pictures.
Type 1 I believe to be the '65 strut rod washers. They have an O.D. of 2.39" and are smooth to the edge. The edges are not parallel. These I think are C4DA-3A141-A and C4DA-3A142-A (as found in the January '65 parts catalog)
Type 2 I think are the first iteration used on the Mustangs, which jives with Mike's 64 coupe. They measure slightly larger with an O.D. of 2.41". They have a small ridge around the edge, which are not parallel.
Type 3 and 4 I believe to be the 1966 version and subsequent service replacement washers, although i'm not sure if they are different due to manufacturer or date. They are very similar with an O.D. of 2.25", and the only difference i can see is the diameter of where it steps down; the diameter of the raised center part on Type 3 being approx. 1.95" and Type 4 being approx. 1.85". These I believe would both fall under the engineering numbers C5DA-3A141-A and C5DA-3A142-A.
Hope this helps someone.
Garrett
Mustangs, Etc.
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While I'm at it, and slightly off topic: Am I correct that the strut rods on the left with the bolts are 64 1/2 (C5ZZ-3468-A/C4ZA-3468-A)? I think i remember seeing somewhere that Ford added the orientation mark to the underside during production but i can't recall for sure. Also the bolts are the early grade-5 style (3 lines) instead of the later 4 line or 5 line style (i'm guessing grade-6 and grade-8?)
thanks,
garrett
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Since I unfortunately don't have the data on the cars that these were taken off of, I can only make educated assumptions.
Just for reference, where were the majority of 64-66 Mustangs you encounter built? Most of the Mustangs I see are from the San Jose plant in (of all places) the San Jose area.
Jim
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- the bolts are the early grade-5 style (3 lines) instead of the later 4 line or 5 line style (i'm guessing grade-6 and grade-8?)
Garrett,
The specified bolt is 379779-S8, 7/16-20X1 3/8L Grade 6 (4 lines). Reference "AMK Products Guide to Ford Fasteners, 1955-73". What "early" 64 used may have been a grade 5 with engineering approval. An acceptable substitute would have been a Grade 7 (5 lines) if the standards drawing stated "Grade 6 or better".
Check out the Mustang Hardware Spreadsheets in the Library.
Jim
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I'd say they're from mostly San Jose cars since we're in Los Angeles, but a lot of Dearborn cars as well (especially on the 64.5 stuff ;)). Rarely Metuchen.
I've got way too many Grade 7 strut rod bolts for them just to be a substitute. I've got the AMK book, he also shows a second number for the 7/16-20x1 3/8 but no grade (350811-S) so who knows. There's also several other numbers referenced in Ford books for the same applications (373862-S, 352621-S, 354498-S, etc.)
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The strut rod nuts are incorrect (they look like the nuts that come in the Drake strut rod bushing kit) as others have said above. I have a July 64 SJ car with the 34426 nut (top pic), and a June 64 Dearborn with the 9/16"-18 locknut shown in the bottom pic, and most of the pics that Jeff posted above. BTW, I am looking for another nut that matches the one in the bottom pic, somehow got lost in a batch of parts I sent out to a vendor. :-\
-Scott
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I have a July 64 SJ car with the 34426 nut (top pic), and a June 64 Dearborn with the 9/16"-18 locknut shown in the bottom pic,
Do you have the top and bottom pictures confused here?
Jim
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Do you have the top and bottom pictures confused here?
Jim
No. The bottom pic shows the nut from the June 64 Dearborn car. That's the one that I am missing as well.
Also, at last check with AMK they don't make the one in the bottom pic anymore - but it's been a few months since i last checked in with them.
-Scott
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No. The bottom pic shows the nut from the June 64 Dearborn car. That's the one that I am missing as well.
Also, at last check with AMK they don't make the one in the bottom pic anymore - but it's been a few months since i last checked in with them.
-Scott
That's the only style locking nut I have seen on 65-66 and in all the old FoMoCo boxed strut rod service kits. Some of the later Ford kits had the incorrect style nut, which I believe is the same one that AMK sells.
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I have a July 64 SJ car with the 34426 nut (top pic), and a June 64 Dearborn with the 9/16"-18 locknut shown in the bottom pic, -Scott
The top picture is a replacement nut, part number unknown. The bottom picture is 34426-S8, called out on the 64-65 Mustang Chassis Assembly Manual and 75 MPC.
Jim
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Do you have the top and bottom pictures confused here?
Jim
I see what your saying now, Jim. Both are 9/16"-18, but the bottom one is the 34426, though the picture in the the period parts and assembly manual and the 65 chassis assembly manual shows multiple illustrations of the 34426 looking more like the top nut.
-Scott
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The top picture is a replacement nut, part number unknown. The bottom picture is 34426-S8, called out on the 64-65 Mustang Chassis Assembly Manual and 75 MPC.
Jim
Looks like our last two messages crossed, but yes I agree. I just got off the phone with AMK and the nut is still out of stock.
Thank you,
-Scott
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Been following along and I have a set that I took off my SJ car back in 2002. Thanks to one of the pictures posted I discovered the word front on two of the bushings. Also on the flat surface of each bushing the word ' HARRIS ' and assorted number ID's. Sort of validates this set ? My intention is to clean up the nuts and metal washers. Phosphate and oil finish ? Then re-use them with a new set of Drakes C4DZ-3A182-A bushings. C9 posted some measurements above and my washers are sort of irregular and measure 2.225 in diameter and about .200 thick, varies, dealing with the passenger side only. Opinions ? Thanks Brian
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Been following along and I have a set that I took off my SJ car back in 2002. Thanks to one of the pictures posted I discovered the word front on two of the bushings. Also on the flat surface of each bushing the word ' HARRIS ' and assorted number ID's. Sort of validates this set ? My intention is to clean up the nuts and metal washers. Phosphate and oil finish ? Then re-use them with a new set of Drakes C4DZ-3A182-A bushings. C9 posted some measurements above and my washers are sort of irregular and measure 2.225 in diameter and about .200 thick, varies, dealing with the passenger side only. Opinions ? Thanks Brian
P/O on washers only . Nut is zinc silver or equivalent.