ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: brennancarey on July 11, 2017, 12:12:34 PM
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Hi
I am planning to do my interior seam sealing and Sound Deadener this weekend. ;D ;D
I am needing some help pls and reference pics to follow for my 67 Dearborn Fastback.
Areas that I understand need sound deadener / Seam sealing are the :
1. A Pillar
2. Cowl
3. Front floor panel where it meets the bottom of firewall
3. Floor where it meet the rocker panel
4. Rear of floor panel by the 3rd member tunnel
5. Rear Seat tabs
6. Wheel house where it meets the floor
7. Truck Wheelhouse
8. Gas tank drop down area
9. Trunk Quarter panels
10 Rear tail light panel
Any other areas I am forgetting ?
I know a long list but I cant seem to find any reference for the above.
Thks!
Brennan
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One good place to start might be the weld and sealant manual.
:-)
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That is a list.
You have at least 4-6 different products and a ton of locations. But we'll focus just on your list ;) Don't have as many pictures for 67 for Dearborn but there are some. Just not something that can be put together in an organized fashion in a couple of hours
Good thing is that the interior sound deadener and sealants will not be seen so many don't pay as much attention to those unfortunately because of that I've not taken as many pictures of those areas since I've rarely gotten requests for them
Unfortunately the Assembly manuals will show you where Ford wanted the sealants to go not where workers placed them And if you follow the manuals there are a number of areas that will not look like any original car you will ever find. They can help with the sealant products as to type and characteristics which can be studied and compared to what your planning on using. In some areas your going to want to use a self leveling paintable sealer while in others an elastomertic product will be a better choice
I'll see what I can find and post this disconnect of PhotoBucket, trying to save those pictures and replace them here has taken some of my time since it happened. Haven't even got them posted up to the the gallery here in an organized fashion yet :(
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Hi Jeff
thank you for your feedback and input, I do realise its a long list.. Maybe we can break down in sections starting from back to front ?
Also does not help as I am in South Africa so I dont have much to reference as there are no originals here for me to eyeball.. :-[
Ntd on the assembly manuals and that was my thoughts and concerns as well....
I am planning to start with the trunk so that would be a good place to start for me if you can help, ntd on the photo bucket issue must be giving you plenty grey hairs !
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Hi Jeff
thank you for your feedback and input, I do realise its a long list.. Maybe we can break down in sections starting from back to front ? .............I am planning to start with the trunk so that would be a good place to start for me if you can help, ntd on the photo bucket issue must be giving you plenty grey hairs !
Sounds like a plan. Little bits of the larger list
Trunk seams and sealant
Sure you will notice the area where contact and wear has altered the condition of the sealants over time. Some area have been highlighted to help visualize edges and coverage. Labeled for follow up questions or discussions if needed.
Hope this helps
T1 Smooth not brushed or sprayed
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181336-72701672.jpeg)
T2 Smooth not brushed or sprayed
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181321-72631807.jpeg)
T3
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181315-72611981.jpeg)
T4 Smooth not brushed or sprayed
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181328-7266707.jpeg)
T5
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181326-726581.jpeg)
T6 Sound deadener Upper edge. Edges fairly sharp for a spray
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181341-72731332.jpeg)
T7 No noticable spray pattern inside the application. Pretty consistent across the spray surface
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181334-72691791.jpeg)
T8
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181324-72645.jpeg)
T9 Wheel well to trunk floor Trap door surround to trunk floor sealant - Sprayed fairly heavy
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181332-7268647.jpeg)
T10 Trap door surround to trunk floor sealant - Sprayed fairly heavy
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181330-7267853.jpeg)
T11 Trunk floor seams. Wide spray sealants
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181338-72712493.jpeg)
T12
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-130717181339-72721833.jpeg)
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Thks Jeff.. Your help is very valuable... !
I did the trunk sealer and sound deadener this weekend, used Spectrum for all.
I think I am on the right track (i hope 8))
I also started with doing the rear wheel house, I had some references as the old sealer was still good on the one wheel house.
Any suggestions, critique most welcome, I would rather know now and fix before I get any further down the road. I do know I still need to feather in to get the overspray effect.
Thks!
Brennan
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Any suggestions, critique most welcome, I would rather know now and fix before I get any further down the road. I do know I still need to feather in to get the overspray effect.
Yes in the the areas that were sprayed your going to need to go over the Sludge with a paintable spray rattle can sealer to give it the final sprayed look with all the spits and splatters
Need rear wheel well pictures?
Remember to apply it in patterns (using a large wide bush). Apply the material to the thickness you want. then dip and lift the brush while holding the brush as the worker would the application wand moving the brush in the direction of travel then dipping, lifting and moving it again and again across the panel then starting on the next pass one side to the other. Also remember to get some of the start or end of each pass on the frame rail so you don't get the magical (only on the wheel well) ok :(
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Yes in the the areas that were sprayed your going to need to go over the Sludge with a paintable spray rattle can sealer to give it the final sprayed look with all the spits and splatters
Need rear wheel well pictures?
Remember to apply it in patterns (using a large wide bush). Apply the material to the thickness you want. then dip and lift the brush while holding the brush as the worker would the application wand moving the brush in the direction of travel then dipping, lifting and moving it again and again across the panel then starting on the next pass one side to the other. Also remember to get some of the start or end of each pass on the frame rail so you don't get the magical (only on the wheel well) ok :(
Hi , Luckly my rear wheel wells are still quite original together with the rear frame rails.
I took some detailed pics of the back section of the floor pan however I dont know how the seatbelt attachment points need to be sealed as well as if their is any sealing done where the floor pan meets the rockers as well as I have no clue on how the floor pan meets the firewall seam should look.
These areas are a bit of a mystery to me :
1. A Pillar
2. Cowl
3. Front floor panel where it meets the bottom of firewall
4. Floor pan where it meets the rocker panel
5. Rear Seat tabs
Any help in that regard will be helpful.. Thks!
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1. A Pillar
2. Cowl
Black light spray was added after paint (all other done before) to seal wiring clips
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190808-7521429.jpeg)
Cowl outer edge - smooth flowing possibly sort of self leveling
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190810-7522643.jpeg)
Cowl side to A pillar/door jamb sealant. Similar product as used on the seams and trunk seams
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190812-75231916.jpeg)
Door hinge to a pillar. Smooth chalk spread again Looks similar to the taillight panel to trunk floor and rear bumper support product
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190814-7524742.jpeg)
3. Front floor panel where it meets the bottom of firewall [/quote]
Guess your referring to the interior as the undercarriage side typically didn't get any
Don't have a picture but typical would be a 4-5" wide sprayed pattern over the seam. Same along the front top and rear edge of the seat riser to driveline tunnel
4. Floor pan where it meets the rocker panel [/quote] Not sealed in the interior but instead on the undercarriage side. Arrows show the best section that shows width and thickness. Ignore the dealer applied undercoating
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190817-7526949.jpeg)
5. Rear Seat tabs [/quote]
Not sealed in the interior but instead on the undercarriage side on the inner points only
Spray product applied to the general area - sloppy
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190806-7520897.jpeg)
Extra. Trunk drop to quarter panel seam. Not found on all examples but appears it was suppose to be this year and plant during this time period
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-180717190818-75271229.jpeg)
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Thks Jeff... as usual your help is appreciated and invaluable. Will tackle on the weekend and report back with my progress !
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Remember that the the undercarriage (this year and plant) were applied after the floor paint/primer was applied not before like in the trunk, interior and many other locations.
Don't want you to get ahead of yourself ;)
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Weekends work..
Finished up the floor did the blending of the sludge with overspray. I hope I am on the right track.. ?
Then I started on the A Pillars and cowl.
Comments as always are welcome and appreciated !
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Looking good. Haven't normally seen sealer around the rear seat upper bracket on top of the wheel housing.
And you left a few J clips in place when you painted ;) but no one will see these once the car is wrapped up. The top sealer at the pillar top of cowl is allot prettier than the in worker would have done. But its typical that we would be this way after all the time and effort spent on our cars Just something to watch for elsewhere where its seen
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Looking good. Haven't normally seen sealer around the rear seat upper bracket on top of the wheel housing.
And you left a few J clips in place when you painted ;) but no one will see these once the car is wrapped up. The top sealer at the pillar top of cowl is allot prettier than the in worker would have done. But its typical that we would be this way after all the time and effort spent on our cars Just something to watch for elsewhere where its seen
A wise man on these forums once told me that I need to look at what my car had and take photos, and that if the sealer does not need to be removed dont remove it. 8) 8) See attached images I took of the original sealer around the rear upper seat bracket. Thats why I left it and just feathered in the overspray. Interested to hear your comments ?
J clips- ok I will remove and fix sharp edges, thanks for spotting..
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A wise man on these forums once told me that I need to look at what my car had and take photos, and that if the sealer does not need to be removed dont remove it. 8) 8) See attached images I took of the original sealer around the rear upper seat bracket. Thats why I left it and just feathered in the overspray. Interested to hear your comments ?
Great idea 8) Understand and of course we will likely have plenty of people that will read your thread here and simply copy what you did. Only wanted to mentioned what IMHO is "normal" or typical so that they don't automatically just copy. The fact that your car was built that way is great and shows the variations that we often uncover it we pay attention and document things as we go
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Thks Jeff.... !
If I may ask next for some reference of the firewall sealer and sound deadener pls ? On the fender aprons as I understand I just need sealer before paint and sound deadener comes after paint and assembly, so if you can hep me with the seam sealer req that would be great !
Thks
Brennan
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If I may ask next for some reference of the firewall sealer and sound deadener pls ? On the fender aprons as I understand I just need sealer before paint and sound deadener comes after paint and assembly, so if you can hep me with the seam sealer req that would be great !
As far as the firewall sealant - does your car have AC. Might be able to focus a little better if I can find some examples
For the wheel wells, borrowing from what we see in other adjoining years at that plant and 67 we can get a basic idea of where seam sealer was placed before the body color was applied
Basically seams got sealed along the firewall (in wheel well) to inner fender panel and across the top of the torque box. These seams are marked in purple in the pictures below.
Along with those but after painting the seams along the frame to floor (passenger side) as well as the torque box to frame on drivers side and along the inner fender panel to frame seam on both sides. These seams are marked in green below. Originally it was difficult to determine (with all the dirt and crud these examples are covered with) if this additional seams were covered before body paint was applied or if afterwards - with the front wheel well sound deadener was applied. For others reading this thread It appears that during the time where you car was built there was a couple of other seams that got sealed that were "skipped" later in production at Dearborn so if you have a latter built car one would not expect to find this detail
For this plant and time period I believe these last seams were applied after body color and likely when the front wheel wells were sound deadened. Reason is that the one pattern on the drivers side goes over the brake line directly in front of the rear pattern. we also see where the product's down ward flow was stopped by the one upper steering box bolt and some suggestion at the forward inner picture where the bumper bracket was in place Would be nice if I had an example with body color showing over all of these surfaces, would make this stand out more, but they are just too dirty to see that detail.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-270717175042-7673140.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-270717175039-7672802.jpeg)
Same with this forward section of the inner fender panels - applied with the front wheel well sound deadener
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-270717175036-76712215.jpeg)
Passenger side - Used a later example but will add in the horizontal seam sealer to illustrate
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-270717175033-76692234.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-270717175044-76741936.jpeg)
Hope this helps
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Thanks....
No there is no AC on this car.
Ok ntd the before and after paint requirements for sealer and sound deadener, that is interesting to know.
It looks like the shock tower seams have no seam sealer is that correct ?
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Thanks....
No there is no AC on this car.
Ok ntd the before and after paint requirements for sealer and sound deadener, that is interesting to know.
It looks like the shock tower seams have no seam sealer is that correct ?
Correct no seam sealer on the shock tower to inner fender panels seam on either side front or rear seams. That is an earlier detail for other years and plants
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Ok great news.. If I can just get the reference pls for the firewall sealer and deadener for my non AC car I should have all the details I need to get this done. thks.. 8)
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Ok great news.. If I can just get the reference pls for the firewall sealer and deadener for my non AC car I should have all the details I need to get this done. thks.. 8)
The firewall sealant was applied after all the painting had taken place (so over the engine compartment black) and was meant to seal all the openings, attachment points and pass throughs on the firewall. So things like the firewall pad, heater, heater hoses, master cylinder, hard brake lines, steering column, engine compartment wire loom and smaller looms, windshield washer parts, emergency brake cable, speedometer cable, throttle (and if equipped) & clutch linkage, vacuum hoses and the like were installed before this application. Because some of these things got in the way and sometimes the workers skipped on tight or hard to get to corners a few areas were not always sealed fully.
Also one at least the lower screw cover was in place when the sealer (what Ford referred to as a adhesive) was applied. A second one was used for cars without power brakes which would be behind the booster once installed. I can't be certain that these were not used there on PB cars I've just not found one there yet on cars equipped that way. So we would expect that these covers would get sealant applied over them also if in the path, which normally they were. Because these are made of a hard grey plastic the sealer did not stick well and hold up over time like other surrounding surfaces
The product sprayed to seal was a very thick sealant which does not appear very different than a slightly thinner sound deadener. This differs (the product) than other assembly plants that year.
Hope this helps
Passenger side firewall
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164205-76841669.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164203-76832353.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164210-76862492.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717170720-76871440.jpeg)
Drivers side firewall
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164201-7682894.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164159-7681104.jpeg)
Screw cover location
Lower just above throttle linkage
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164156-76791091.jpeg)
Upper to the inside of the master cylinder
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-290717164157-76802257.jpeg)
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Wow.. thats great, I realize now I cant do the firewall yet until I have installed all the required parts and I am a LONG way from that so I will have to park the firewall for now..
With regards to seam sealing on the cowl to firewall seam, how is this done, is it a messy brushable seam sealer ?
Also what about the door jams and trunk gutters and seams under the the quarter panel extensions, how messy does the sealer need to be on these areas?
Thks
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With regards to seam sealing on the cowl to firewall seam, how is this done, is it a messy brushable seam sealer ?
Reminder for others - these details are for 67 Dearborn only. If you have a different year or built at a different plant it will likely differ
If we're looking at the visible (once the car is assembled) area of the seam then its appears to be neater than the unexposed area but still a pit sloppy when compared (for example) what was done at San Jose. It was a black product that doesn't seem to hole up as well as other sealers. The focus was to seal the leading edge where the three panels overlap one another. During the process of wiping or brushing extra product was pushed or wiped above/behind that seam and allowed to drip down onto the face ion the firewall in some examples. Appears that the face (over the three seams) was smoothed or or at least they attempted to at the end of the application
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-310717161515-76971233.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-310717161516-7698960.jpeg)
Also what about the door jams and trunk gutters and seams under the the quarter panel extensions, how messy does the sealer need to be on these areas?
Those areas also appear to be a self leveling or smooth, almost not visible after exterior paint added, product. It was often applied thinly and or wiped off leaving the panels very visible in many cases. Amount of sealer varied as evident by the examples posted. Often see more sealer applied to the quarter panel to under rear window panel than at the lower/rear trunk corner filler panel seams. May be due to the sealer if they used a self leveling one since that seam could hold it where if the rear seams were left they would produce runs and interfere with the trunk gasket sealing
A pillar - With a little (IMHO more common) Almost not visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-310717161326-76951456.jpeg)
Or allot of sealer
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-310717161327-76961381.jpeg)
The black is just dirt and grim build up in the seam
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-310717161212-7694501.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-310717155805-76931247.jpeg)
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Some of my sealer pics after paint
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Guess your going to add the pinch weld black out?
For other viewers now and in the future I wanted to take note that the rear upper front fender bracket (last picture in your reply #23 and third picture in my reply #22) were painted body color/ installed when the body was painted. This was a 67-68 Dearborn practice and not shared at the other two plants during 67 production.
Just another example of why its important to use cars from the same plant and production period as examples for your restorations ;)
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Hi Jeff,
Yes not got around to the pinch weld blackout yet, but. its on the to do list. ;)
Thanks as always for your input and advise. It means so much to me !