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1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: wsu0702 on July 22, 2017, 08:53:08 PM

Title: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: wsu0702 on July 22, 2017, 08:53:08 PM
So I recently received my elite Marti Report for my 69 mustang and I surprised to see some extra info that was not in my previous deluxe report.  Under the "Your vehicle was equipped with..." section there is a line item that says "Trim Variation".  What does this mean.  Does it have something to do with the fact that my interior trim code is 3AA with the extra A denoting the change from teak to walnut woodgrain trim?  I asked on some of the Facebook groups that I belong to but no one seems to know for sure. 
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 23, 2017, 05:35:16 AM
Looking at other Marti reports for cars with the "3AA' interiors there is no mention of a "Trim Variation"

You didn't include when or where the car was built so its not easy to compare cars built around the same time and plant.

There are at least two prior discussions on the trim variation but guess you have already read them and the links provided
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: wsu0702 on July 23, 2017, 01:52:57 PM
San Jose end of April 1969.  Yes I did search this forum and saw some older posts discussing the Trim Variation on Marti reports but I did not see where it was positively identified (only guesses). I was just wondering if it had finally been figured out (hence my post).  I just emailed Kevin Marti hopefully he can provide the answer. 
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 23, 2017, 09:07:25 PM
..........I just emailed Kevin Marti hopefully he can provide the answer.

Think that is a great idea since its hos product and words. Might want to ask if the same term is used to describe different things (more generic) or just your specific application - to help others.

Looked through the couple of hundred 69 Marti reports I have copies of and could not find that note on any of the ones I have so don't have any to offer for comparison purposes.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 70b302cat on July 23, 2017, 10:45:31 PM
From the M-E-L mpc that I have under Soft Trim.

Parts for 3 digit trim codes ending with an alphabet (e. g. 1BA) are listed with parts cataloged by trim code.

Parts for 3 digit trim codes ending with a numeral (e. g. 1B1) normally are not cataloged.  Refer to the listing of Trim codes to determine which parts are available through service.  For parts which are not available for service contact your Service Representative who will process in accordance with General ICC Bulletin 7526.

From Kevin Marti's "The Mustang and Cougar Tagbook" footnote 1 on 3AA found on page 59

"Dark woodgrain pattern on door panel"
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2017, 12:51:30 AM
.............From Kevin Marti's "The Mustang and Cougar Tagbook" footnote 1 on 3AA found on page 59

"Dark woodgrain pattern on door panel"

Yes think the interior code doesn't provide or is related to the "trim variation" note on the Marti report. As mentioned have other examples with the same interior code and others with the two and three digit codes without the notation

Typically (the purpose of the MPC) soft trim was not serviced past two or three years it seems
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: Andrew@MagMustangs on July 24, 2017, 01:05:13 PM
I was looking at the Marti Report on a buddy's 69 Mach 1 428CJ car on Saturday and also noted that the first option line stated 'Trim Variation'. I'm interested to hear Marti's response.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2017, 02:48:45 PM
I was looking at the Marti Report on a buddy's 69 Mach 1 428CJ car on Saturday and also noted that the first option line stated 'Trim Variation'. I'm interested to hear Marti's response.

Anything unusual on that example that might provide a clue?
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: rockhouse66 on July 24, 2017, 06:21:50 PM
If we are taking a poll, I am going with the OP's original theory that it is the change from light to dark walnut.  I am sure I have read this somewhere before and I thought it was on the CJ Forum but I can only find reference to a '68.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2017, 07:22:43 PM
If we are taking a poll, I am going with the OP's original theory that it is the change from light to dark walnut.  I am sure I have read this somewhere before and I thought it was on the CJ Forum but I can only find reference to a '68.

Agree that connects nicely with the 3AA but the issue I have with that being the reason for the "trim variation"  doesn't seem to work with other Marti reports with that same code, later built cars and the 3AA (and other three digit examples)  but without that note.   Unless this is something new Kevin is adding now (or did at one point) and didn't on other cars/examples

Some examples. Notice no comment of "Trim Variation"   have plenty more ;)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-240717182127-7660735.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-240717182125-7658708.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-240717182129-76612468.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-240717182126-76592304.jpeg)
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 7Lscjracer on July 24, 2017, 09:23:41 PM
Given that his car is a Mach 1, is it something like different color seat stripe, or body stripes delete or body stripes color different from what's standard based on the exterior color?
Just my W.A.G.'s.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2017, 09:52:46 PM
Given that his car is a Mach 1, is it something like different color seat stripe, or body stripes delete or body stripes color different from what's standard based on the exterior color?
Just my W.A.G.'s.

Some possibilities - guess we'll wait for Kevin's response

The removal of hood black out or the stripe deletes were noted differently looking at other examples

The change from standard exterior stripe color I don't think was ever recorded in any of the years on the Ford tape.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: krelboyne on July 24, 2017, 10:12:02 PM
My WAG:
It could be as simple as: Kevin is including "Trim Variation" nomenclature, to more recently generated Marti Reports that show 3 digit interior trim codes. In the Mustang and Cougar tag book, there are footnotes next to most every 3 digit trim code. 1967-73, there are instances of suffix code 1, A, B, C, & E, all with footnotes. The footnotes have notes and the word "variation". Some variations are explained.

Only my guess, please don't shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on July 24, 2017, 11:36:29 PM
My WAG:
It could be as simple as: Kevin is including "Trim Variation" nomenclature, to more recently generated Marti Reports that show 3 digit interior trim codes. In the Mustang and Cougar tag book, there are footnotes next to most every 3 digit trim code. 1967-73, there are instances of suffix code 1, A, B, C, & E, all with footnotes. The footnotes have notes and the word "variation". Some variations are explained.

Only my guess, please don't shoot the messenger.

Yes same thought as I had from the beginning we see this in some other ways as you look at the reports over the years
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: Andrew@MagMustangs on July 25, 2017, 12:09:27 AM
Anything unusual on that example that might provide a clue?
Nothing blaringly obvious, but I have not really had a chance to spend serious time with that car yet.  ;) He had the Marti displayed on the core support at a show and I just happened to notice that term when I glanced at the report.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: Andrew@MagMustangs on July 25, 2017, 12:16:14 AM
It seems doubtful that Kevin would feel the need to call out a variation in the Options/Features section of the report when the 2 or 3 digit trim code already explains those particular variations, IMHO. For instance: Teak vs Walnut woodgrain was not an optional difference and the wood tone could not be specified by the 'orderer'. It was simply a running change by the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: jim69mach1 on August 02, 2017, 03:42:58 PM
Here is the Marti-report for my 69 Mach 1.

I looked through several marti reports that i have ordered over the years. I'm wondering if the word "Clarion" has anything to do with the extra letter in the code. I noticed all "clarion" bucket seats have the extra letter in the trim code where all "non-clarion" seats do not.


just something to chew on

jim
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on August 02, 2017, 05:00:36 PM
Here is the Marti-report for my 69 Mach 1.

I looked through several marti reports that i have ordered over the years. I'm wondering if the word "Clarion" has anything to do with the extra letter in the code. I noticed all "clarion" bucket seats have the extra letter in the trim code where all "non-clarion" seats do not.

Think you might be mixing Mach I and other interiors when you look at the reports Have a few hundred from 69 and here is what I found

Both dual and triple coding was used with seats labeled in the Marti reports as "Clarion"

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-020817155923-7833230.jpeg)
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: Frostbiten on June 29, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
I know this thread is old but I thought I would add my recently received Deluxe Marti Report which again references "Trim Variations"

Hoping Andrew may respond with any communication he may have had with Kevin Marti.

Just received the car yesterday and haven't started the antique archaeology yet.... its my winter project.
Title: Trim Variation Final Answer?
Post by: STAUBY38 on October 29, 2020, 10:13:40 PM
I have searched long and hard for a solid answer on what the "Trim Variation" is on my Marti report.  I have seen many posts but no solid proven answers.  One post said they were waiting to hear from Kevin Marti but I never saw an answer.   So my question is,  Does anyone actually know what that is without guessing??   Thanks


69 Mach 1 390 4spd San Jose 3-28-69
Title: Re: Trim Variation Final Answer?
Post by: J_Speegle on October 30, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
Merging this with the earlier main thread

In a quick look  (complete look will take hours) they are falling like a running change along production dates
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: STAUBY38 on November 01, 2020, 01:23:15 PM
I am wondering if it had something to do with a change of order in mid production?   My car according to the Marti did not come with a Tac  However it has one and all the correct components that came with it including correct wiring and behind dash components etc.   Second owner advised original owner told him it was factory and not added.  Ever heard of anything like that with added options?


69 Mach 1 390 4spd San Jose 3-28-69
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 67gta289 on November 01, 2020, 02:08:37 PM
Sometimes a tachometer was included (bundled) with a manual transmission and therefore would not show up on the Marti report like it would if ordered on an automatic equipped vehicle
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: STAUBY38 on November 02, 2020, 09:16:27 AM
Interesting.  I was unaware of that.  Would that be the case with any other options also?       Seems hard to figure out this "Trim Variation" question.  Cant seem to get a solid answer anywhere.  I don't know here to try next.  Anyone have any thoughts on how to solve the mystery?

Thanks

69 Mach 1 390 4spd San Jose 3-28-69
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 67gta289 on November 02, 2020, 10:54:49 AM
It's tricky.  If you automatically get a tachometer when you order a manual transmission, the manual transmission is the "option", whereas the tachometer is bundled.  In that case, whoever ordered the car did not check the tachometer box.

There are other cases like in 1967, power disc brakes were part of the GT equipment group option, but was also a stand-alone option.  The disc brakes will not show up on the Marti in this case (at least it doesn't on mine).

As far as the trim variation mystery, you can see the number of people that have read the thread, and it would be hard to find a more inquisitive and passionate group on something like this, so to me it appears that we have reached a dead end...for now.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: J_Speegle on November 02, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
............................Anyone have any thoughts on how to solve the mystery?

You need to either find a document or publication from Ford from that production year that explains the variation and related codes or someone that does.

Since we don't know what to look or focus on we are left with collection of data and comparing unrestored cars to at least narrow down the possibilities. Fully understand that with the internet few are willing to wait months or years to figure things out like we had to do before the internet. And even now with the internet there are not that many people willing to put in the time, find the resources or spend the dollars if needed so it's the long route for most things. We hope that sites like this help to bring together like minded people so that each can put in the work for the good of all.

Lacking the magic bullet (a document) we're left with guesses or a lucky moment
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 67gtasanjose on November 02, 2020, 06:19:22 PM
Interesting.  I was unaware of that.  Would that be the case with any other options also?       Seems hard to figure out this "Trim Variation" question.  Cant seem to get a solid answer anywhere.  I don't know here to try next.  Anyone have any thoughts on how to solve the mystery?

Thanks

69 Mach 1 390 4spd San Jose 3-28-69
Email Marti Auto Works with a copy of your report.
It should take a few short days, perhaps a week but if anyone has the answer, as it has been stated the last go round in this thread, Marti is your best chance.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: STAUBY38 on November 02, 2020, 07:51:26 PM
I will give it a try on my end  :)
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 70cj428 on November 06, 2020, 02:46:13 PM
Quote
Sometimes a tachometer was included (bundled) with a manual transmission and therefore would not show up on the Marti report like it would if ordered on an automatic equipped vehicle

At least on 68-70 big block cars (I don't do much with small blocks or 67's ) a Tach was standard with 4 speed cars in 68 and 69 so it won't show up on the Marti. In 70 the Tach became an option with 4 speed cars so anything with a factory tach in 70 will have it shown on the Marti report.

Just FYI, John
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: STAUBY38 on November 07, 2020, 12:29:29 AM
That's great info  Thank you    Ever heard of power steering being from factory in a big block 4 spd car but not on the MARTI?   I am wondering if that could be a "trim variation"?
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: Mike_B_SVT on November 07, 2020, 02:25:06 AM
That's great info  Thank you    Ever heard of power steering being from factory in a big block 4 spd car but not on the MARTI?   I am wondering if that could be a "trim variation"?

No, TRIM is by definition the interior "trim" of the car.  Tach and power steering are not "Trim" items.

I spoke with Kevin Marti about Trim Variation a few years ago now, but he said that it was basically a "minor" item in the interior that was different from the norm ~ like the walnut grain panel mentioned earlier in this thread.  The Trim Variation code was noted on the door tags so that dealers would know there was a difference and could address that properly from a warranty standpoint.  He said that it would be something simple, such as the thickness of the seam welts used on the seats, or the windlace used.  Basically, something small that you would not really notice it - unless you happened to replace that trim item with a standard trim piece, in which case it might stand out as being different when seen right next to the "variant" pieces.  I asked him if it might be the grain or texture of the vinyl / materials on the seats or door panels and he said no, that grain / texture would not be something that would be different.

Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: Coralsnake on November 07, 2020, 09:23:19 AM
+1

Absolutely not

“Trim” relates to interior

I believe there was a kit for dealerships to add power steering.
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: STAUBY38 on November 07, 2020, 10:22:16 PM
Great information!!  Thank you both !!
Title: Re: Elite Marti report question - "Trim Variation" in 69
Post by: 69gtconv on February 14, 2021, 12:20:31 PM
At least on 68-70 big block cars (I don't do much with small blocks or 67's ) a Tach was standard with 4 speed cars in 68 and 69 so it won't show up on the Marti. In 70 the Tach became an option with 4 speed cars so anything with a factory tach in 70 will have it shown on the Marti report.

Just FYI, John

Good to hear ... may explain my date code correct tach dash in my March 4 Metuchen built '69 R-Code Mach 1
(https://photos.imageevent.com/sibayak/billjansas69rcodemach1/websize/gauges%20circuit%20board%20date%20-%20Copy32.JPG)

I'm wondering about my non-Mach 1 front seats (no red stripe) ...  seat frames are date code correct to the car (may have been reupholstered at some point)
(https://photos.imageevent.com/sibayak/billjansas69rcodemach1/websize/IMG-32421.jpg)
(https://photos.imageevent.com/sibayak/billjansas69rcodemach1/websize/IMG_9223.JPG)