Author Topic: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections  (Read 3087 times)

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Looking to identify and source better Concours quality STRIPED vacuum hoses along with color coded markings on the vacuum rotary switches (at heater control panel) & color coded markings on the diapham pods (actuators).

Many vendors are selling cheap "Get-er-dunn" hose sets for under the dash but they are nothing like what I removed from my example. (originals were striped ~Reproductions look to be tagged, see picture)

My originals are too old to use again, I had trimmed & cut the ends already several times so now too short.

I'll post some pictures & I will get some pages from vacuum charts (service manuals) to help others.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 08:37:57 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 08:17:38 AM »
Some pictures of the hoses & vacuum switch from my 11/2/66 actual build date, San Jose coupe, Marti Report confirmed factory Select-Aire car.

I want to say (from memory) I recall there used to be color dots on the various vacuum pods or actuators too, though I see no sign of those colored markings today. Maybe others can look to see if this could be verified, one way or another, on other original examples?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 08:25:15 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline ruppstang

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 09:36:07 AM »
I do not recall ever seeing the color dots on the actuators, just on the control panel as you have shown. I have been able to find useable original hose sets that were fully striped.
Marty

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 12:16:06 PM »
I do not recall ever seeing the color dots on the actuators, just on the control panel as you have shown. I have been able to find useable original hose sets that were fully striped.
Marty

Thanks on the actuator dots. Something else I do not need to duplicate ;)

Yes, it would be nice to locate an original set of usable hoses...I wonder if WCCC might have a set...I didn't see any original or reproduction versions available at their site.

Re: Actuators...I have found them to be date coded...A few of mine seem to have been changed. (incorrect dates ~ I remember now having changed out 1 of them)
 I HAD 3 spares and two tested bad, now down to ONE spare.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016, 12:58:12 PM »
A few more pictures. I'll upload a few more as everything comes together but here are a couple of BEFORE/AFTER pics. I needed parts from a donor (evaporator core in particular)

Mice can be SO destructive...sure am glad I kept the car stored in a garage since it arrived from So.California...it USED to be rust-free and rodent free...this is what 15 years unattended can do to a car. :'(
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 01:01:40 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline preaction

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 11:17:24 PM »
I used a mityvac to test the actuators to verify they worked before installation to save me from going in there after all is installed.  :)  Also Im just about to refill with R-12 for the first time and see if it runs cold.
8R02S125064- January 6 1968  SJ   7F93S591808 - April 28 1967  Dearborn   7F91S544039 - December 17 1966 Dearborn

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2016, 07:06:05 AM »
I used a mityvac to test the actuators to verify they worked before installation to save me from going in there after all is installed.  :) 

Good point. This is how I tested all of mine. Motorcraft replacement actuators that are "similar" are available. Search "Motorcraft YH-61" to locate them. Current pricing begins in the lower to mid $40 range each. A little work may be required to make them look anything like original though.

The two actuators mounted to the AC/Defroster Diffuser and the Heater/AC selection modes are burried pretty deeply into the car. (you cannot even see them from under the dash looking for them). The other two are easily accessed if ever needed to replace. (total of 4 actuators used plus the heater shut-off valve & shut off valve switch)  I might be adapting a couple of the NEW actuators into my final assembly. I think I would rather have a few "new" ones hidden up there than having either of those hard to reach ones "fail" shortly afterwards. I suppose if I was building a Thoroghbred example instead of an Occasional Driver, the better choice would be using the "tested good", date correct originals anyways. For me, I think "peace of mind" is worth the compromise.

I also vacuum tested my original hoses & heater valve cut-off switch. My heater cut-off switch, C6OZ-18C311-A, checked bad. NOS ones are occasionally available and reproductions are out there too. Most, if not all of the reproductions do not include the mounting bracket. I ordered a NOS one up (with bracket) and am awaiting it's arival for testing all components plugged together, re-using as much of my original "striped" hoses as possible. Both of my original hoses that went through the firewall (purple stripe & no stripe) to underhood connections "failed" the vacuum test. I cannot SEE the holes but they do not hold vacuum.

I have a NOS Motorcraft Heater control valve I bought several years ago that I was planning on using. My original is long-gone. Maybe if somebody could post a picture or two of an original assembly line valve & bracket here, it might help me or others with choosing a good replacement part.

 
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline ruppstang

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2016, 09:24:06 AM »
I test the actuators by manually depressing the diaphragm then pressing my finger over the nipple, if the diaphragm expands there is a leak. Low tech but it works.
Here is a picture of a unrestored early 67 heater control valve.
Marty   

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 11:11:27 AM »
I test the actuators by manually depressing the diaphragm then pressing my finger over the nipple, if the diaphragm expands there is a leak. Low tech but it works.
Here is a picture of a unrestored early 67 heater control valve.
Marty   

Thanks Marty for the picture of the Assemblyline valve. I know it has been pictured in other threads too but nice to have it tied in directly here.

As far as "testing" actuators, I agree with the manual way of testing them as a good way of finding "already defective" ones. This is a fairly good basic practice (I did this too initially) One principle comes to mind though...These actuators can be 50 years old. A "Mighty-Vac" test pushes them beyond the limits of an engines manifold vacuum (usually under 20 inches Hg.), potentially taking an "at risk", maybe dry & brittle actuator diaphragm and possibly helping it along into a failure. A "NEW" or extremely well preserved original will easily take the over 20 inches Hg. the pump can produce. To me, this is kind of like the Radiator Testing I used to do back in the day...If a radiator held 20-lbs. air pressure during a shop leak test (submerged under water tank), that radiator was much less likely to fail within a year than one tested at radiator cap pressure. (say a 15 lbs. test)

Without trying to sound like a know-it-all...A basic test is always a good start but a fully functioning test with all hoses in place, all switches connected...basically EVERYTHING connected, performing a "gauged" bench test could save a lot of frustration later (say once everything is installed in the car). For example, I did a basic test my vacuum switch for the heater control valve. It passed. When I bolted it to the case and began testing things with hoses connected to the main selector switch & all actuators, that is when it all seemed to go to crap. (failure after failure) Still, the actuators are all good, none have failed yet, even with a "fully pumped" Mighty-Vac...but several other items are testing bad. It's probably worth a little extra time IMHO. It sure was for me.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 11:17:41 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 10:55:49 AM »
Information FORD supplied in their "Service Training" vacuum diagram book. It shows the early style reservoir like what is found on my 11/2/66 built San Jose example. 4th image is of the "later" version where the hoses are up higher. Colored makes it easier to see, connection points are the same.

NOTE: Tilt steering column connection on SOME examples with Select-Aire have been found "T"d into the "black" hose a few inches inside of the cowl under dash (or the "no stripe hose"). OTHER examples, or later '67 examples more often times have a 2nd canister mounted under the battery tray. (the updated version supplied a larger, more reliable 1/4" supply to the tilt wheel system that was much better vacuum supply than the earlier 1/8" version with the underdash connection)
Please also understand, this note about a Tilt-away connection under dash is based upon extensive research of original examples and Ford documentation done to date and discussed within other threads at this site. Try the search feature for any further updates or details within the (those) other thread(s).

I'll try and supply a better image of my original hoses after I get them cleaned up. MAYBE somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who makes up such hoses so that MAYBE we can get somebody to make us up some good quality reproductions (to obsolete those crappy-looking ones they are selling now  :( >:(
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 11:15:19 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67350#1242

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 01:01:31 PM »
Inline Tube sells 5/32" striped vacuum line by the foot.  Several colors and looks to be good quality.  They advertise as being for GM application.
I'm not sure of the size used on the Mustangs but this looks close.   You can buy it on EBay.  Search striped vacuum hose.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 02:56:06 PM »
Inline Tube sells 5/32" striped vacuum line by the foot.  Several colors and looks to be good quality.  They advertise as being for GM application.
I'm not sure of the size used on the Mustangs but this looks close.   You can buy it on EBay.  Search striped vacuum hose.

Thanks, those look very similar at least. 67 Mustangs use 6 different colors of striped hoses in the Select-Aire air conditioning systems. Below are the lengths and color codes (where available) measured from the original hoses removed from my 11/2/66 built San Jose example

White striped 60 inches
Red               24 inches plus 12 inches* (*this 2nd original red hose was replaced, NOT available to measure)
Light Blue      30 inches
Black             46 inches plus 36 inches* (*estimated length of hose going through cowl, snipped a few times)
Purple            40 inches plus 12 inches* (*this 2nd original purple hose was replaced, NOT available to measure)
Green            36 inches

Notice in the diagrams previously shared, there may be two versions (early/late?) using obviously different lengths of hoses. If anyone can help clarify if/when this early/late situation ever even occurred, maybe post build information from other examples here.

It looks as though my early Nov. built SJ example was the "longer version as seen in image #3 of that previous post with Ford drawings. This is the type where the green & white hoses run along the channel, first below the glove box, then switch back to above the glove box, running along with the right side AC register duct. The later (shorter) version looks to run along the seam of the heater case (as seen in image #4 of previous post)

I'll eventually fill I've now filled in the blanks above with what lengths I end up using. found on my system. (basing those lengths off of my original, somewhat shortened hoses for minor "snippet" repairs over the years.)

You know...it's not funny that the G.M. guys seem to get more of these odd items going first...Once again, they pull through first with a better line of reproduction parts.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 08:01:11 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2016, 07:50:35 AM »
I've updated my previous comment with the lengths I have found on my original hoses.

I'm hoping to find some way to replace at least the hoses that come through the cowl, one with black (or no) stripe and one with a purple stripe since these are the most visable hoses of the system.

As mentioned earlier, it is a shame that such "striped" hoses are not reproduced. I imagine every Ford product with factory air conditioning in the 60's would benefit from these hoses being reproduced in a more authentic version than what is presently available.

The hoses Inline Tube is selling have "Ribs" (for G.M. applications) while the ones I have found on my '67 do not. They also do not sell "Purple" ones that I can find online.
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline ruppstang

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2016, 09:20:09 AM »
If the purple hose is still in reasonably good condition I would just switch ends so the purple stripe shows.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 67-68 Select-Aire Vacuum Hoses, Routing, Markings & Connections
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2016, 11:36:06 AM »
If the purple hose is still in reasonably good condition I would just switch ends so the purple stripe shows.

Not enough evidence of "purple" left to consider this. Maybe for the underdash "T" to the vacuum switch for the heater valve but not nice enough for under hood location. (good idea though  ;) )
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments