Author Topic: SAAC 39 judging etiquette  (Read 4903 times)

Offline PerkinsRestoration

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SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« on: May 19, 2014, 11:02:37 PM »
I witness something I've not seen before at SAAC 39. The judges in the 67 Shelby class used fender covers on a Div. 1 car. Not a big deal maybe for most even though I would not allow them if it were my car. The judges were resting elbows and forearms on the fenders while poking flashlights in the engine bay. Probably would not irritate some as much as myself, however you  have to question the common sense of the judge who dropped the fender cover to the payment to look at something on the underside, gave it a shake and put it back on the fender to resume molesting the fender. Now if this was my car it would have gotten very ugly! I did not recognize any of the judges. They were not MCA judges thank goodness. Is it necessary to even touch the fenders during judging?

 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 11:06:48 PM by PerkinsRestoration »

Offline Richard P.

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 12:58:26 AM »
I witness something I've not seen before at SAAC 39. The judges in the 67 Shelby class used fender covers on a Div. 1 car. Not a big deal maybe for most even though I would not allow them if it were my car. The judges were resting elbows and forearms on the fenders while poking flashlights in the engine bay. Probably would not irritate some as much as myself, however you  have to question the common sense of the judge who dropped the fender cover to the payment to look at something on the underside, gave it a shake and put it back on the fender to resume molesting the fender. Now if this was my car it would have gotten very ugly! I did not recognize any of the judges. They were not MCA judges thank goodness. Is it necessary to even touch the fenders during judging?

 
This should never happen.....

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2014, 01:02:43 AM »
This should never happen.....
+1 . Not supposed to. I judged several different year classes at SAAC this year but not DIV 1 67.  I would have said something if I had seen that .
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 01:05:09 AM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2014, 01:14:00 AM »
I witness something I've not seen before at SAAC 39. The judges in the 67 Shelby class used fender covers on a Div. 1 car. Not a big deal maybe for most even though I would not allow them if it were my car. The judges were resting elbows and forearms on the fenders while poking flashlights in the engine bay. Probably would not irritate some as much as myself, however you  have to question the common sense of the judge who dropped the fender cover to the payment to look at something on the underside, gave it a shake and put it back on the fender to resume molesting the fender. Now if this was my car it would have gotten very ugly! I did not recognize any of the judges. They were not MCA judges thank goodness. Is it necessary to even touch the fenders during judging?
I and a few others are pushing for show etiquette classes for SAAC to adopt like we do occasionally at MCA . Common sense isn't always enough.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline ruppstang

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2014, 09:06:03 AM »
It is too bad when the actions of a very few cast a bad light on the entire organization. I remember when some MCA judges crawled in to the back seat of a convertible, it then was then assumed that this was the norm.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 01:26:54 PM »
Seen allot of "poor choices" through the years and hate to say that some are still around. No matter what venue IMHO its up to the others in the judging team (as well as instruction and reminders before they start judging) to police the actions of others in the group.  Sometimes the person/judge does not even realize the results of their actions and a quick quiet verbal "nudge" gets them back on course quickly. In other cases the judge may need to be removed from the team following the proper etiquette and quick action

IMHO Just one of many reasons that make a mandatory, on going education program for all judges essential in any judging organization


ANY mistakes or poor actions reflect on all of us. It takes only one incident to erase years of good will
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 01:31:37 PM »
... however you  have to question the common sense of the judge who dropped the fender cover to the payment to look at something on the underside, gave it a shake and put it back on the fender to resume molesting the fender. Now if this was my car it would have gotten very ugly!

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I think I may get a bit more than just "UGLY" ...
I could possibly get to the point that a pregnant women might get during labor! Might even need an exorcism afterwards :)
Richard Urch

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2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 06:07:37 PM »
I was at a shop today and coincidentally talking about this happening we are discussing to a small group because it bothered me that it happened . The actual car owner of the car being discussed was there and overheard and said "that was me!" The car owner who said HE was the one to put the fenders on the fenders before the judging even started . The owner who is a Corvette owner said they were Corvette marked fender covers that he turned up side down because he was embarrassed to have them show at a Ford marque event  ;D. When I asked his rational he explained that the fender covers are expected at the other venues he has shown his other cars at. His words. I am so glad that it was his choice instead of the judging staffs choice. If it were me I would still have discouraged them because of no reason since car would not be touched in that way but that is just me. I wasn't there so I don't know if they were used or not and if so to what extent. Giving the guys the benefit of the doubt given this additional information,  maybe they did not want to offend his accommodating gesture.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2014, 06:50:08 PM »
 Bob,
I doubt the owner wanted  the judge to throw the fender cover on the pavement then reuse it on the fender? I agree with you the judges should not allowed the fender covers because no need to touch the fenders. I've watched you judge many 67's and your elbows never touch the vehicle which was not the case here. No one will lay on the fenders in Springfield.

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2014, 07:19:32 PM »
Bob,
I doubt the owner wanted  the judge to throw the fender cover on the pavement then reuse it on the fender? I agree with you the judges should not allowed the fender covers because no need to touch the fenders. I've watched you judge many 67's and your elbows never touch the vehicle which was not the case here. No one will lay on the fenders in Springfield.
+1
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Laurie S.

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2014, 08:17:32 PM »
The judges should not be touching or leaning on the fenders and there is no need for fender covers.  I know what I would be doing, if I saw that happen with my cars.


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Offline carguy

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2014, 09:31:26 PM »
Please accept my apologies for inadvertently creating this controversy. I own the 67 saac division I car discussed. I had the pleasure of showing it at saac 39 along with my 68 in saac division II. I am new to Shelby's, but have earned over 90 gold level awards at regional and national events in other marquees over the past 12 years. At almost every other event they either ask for or welcome fender covers. This is done to protect the owner in case of an accident which I cannot imagine anyone objecting to. Based on my past experience i placed the fender covers on the fenders carefully hiding the corvette logos prior to judging.

Later one of the judges needed to look underneath. He was my age and I know how hard it is to get down there when you are older. I grabbed one of the fender covers and offered it to him to kneel and lay on.  He gladly accepted as any sane person would. I sure hope someone else would do the same for me. When finished I carefully went over the cover to remove any debris.  There was no damage and I came away from saac 39 with great respect for the saac judges professionalism.

I plan on bringing both cars to Springfield this weekend. While I would much prefer to have fender covers used I will be sure to leave the fender covers in the trailer.

Again please accept my apologies for inadvertently causing this controversy. No one can be blamed but me.

Dave Brewer

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 09:42:05 PM »
Please accept my apologies for inadvertently creating this controversy. I own the 67 saac division I car discussed. ...................

Thanks for adding it to the discussion . Good to hear that the event was somewhat a non event.

As for the fender covers I don't see any problem with the owner wanting to have a little added protection but at the same time would not want any judge to think they "protected" and drop their guard if they were there.

Seems that the fender covers were not the issue - just the choice to use them as a ground cover was.

Again thanks for helping clear the air and saving a judge or two from a spanking  :o
Jeff Speegle

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Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 10:05:09 PM »

Jeff, I guess the fender cover gave the judges the green light to lay on the fenders with elbows and forearms?

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: SAAC 39 judging etiquette
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 10:41:20 PM »
Jeff, I guess the fender cover gave the judges the green light to lay on the fenders with elbows and forearms?


Yes unfortunately that may be the unintended consequence of providing protection. Doesn't make it right. Could see where someone might think its then ok to rest a clip board (its NOT) on the fender if a cover was in place

No substitution for good habits though we are all human and sometimes need a reminder

Seems that no organization is immune to any of this but believe all are trying
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)