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1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Cool Times on August 25, 2017, 10:47:06 PM

Title: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on August 25, 2017, 10:47:06 PM
Good evening

Most of you guys are tired of answering date code questions, but I'm documenting all my part dates and sheet metal dates.  I have a 1967 A code fastback built in San Jose with a thermactor emission system.  My build date was May 8, 1967 and my 279 was cast on April 25 and assembled on April 27.  So, I always felt comfortable that the engine was original.  However, the other day, I pulled the valve covers to document the casting numbers on the heads. They both had 289 casts along with WF which I believe means Windsor Foundry.  However, to my disappointment, the heads were dated Jan 31 and Feb 2, 1967 which I believe suggests a matching set being only two days a part.  But, the heads and block casting dates are 80 plus days apart.  I'm concluding that they were swapped at some point - even though the engine was severely caked in grease before getting rebuilt.  Is my swapped conclusion correct?

Thank you
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on August 25, 2017, 11:54:11 PM
289 not 279
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: J_Speegle on August 26, 2017, 06:16:45 PM
..................... But, the heads and block casting dates are 80 plus days apart.  I'm concluding that they were swapped at some point - even though the engine was severely caked in grease before getting rebuilt.  Is my swapped conclusion correct?

So just to confirm the heads you currently have are Thermactor heads?   It was common to swap these out for non-Thermactor for some since the addition "bump" int he port was seen as a restriction by many for increased performance usage

Looking at the limited number of dates I have comparing head and engine block casting dates I would suggest that yes 80 days between the two is unusual and I don't have another example that is similar during 67  production

I can offer that I do have examples (other years) that are greater than the 80 days 9E15 compared to 9B21 and 9B28 which could just be another example of head swapping but we can't be sure. It is one heck of a coincidence that it they were swapped the owner/shop found out of all the tens (or more) thousands of heads they could have picked they choose another set of 69 heads and ones cast before the block. Especially since (if this were done) they were likely not even thinking about casting dates just finding usable heads.

In the vast majority of the examples I have records of the casting dates are most often the same month or two neighboring months
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on August 26, 2017, 09:58:56 PM
Thank you Jeff.  That is what I feared.  The heads are thermactor heads with one port for the smog valve.
Mike

Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on September 09, 2017, 08:53:27 PM
Jeff,
Another question on date difference from build date.  My 1967 289 San Jose built A code was built on May 8 and I've found the casting part number on the third member of 6C0W-4025-A.  0n the pinion casting there's a few letters that basically illegible.  However has cast date of 6M9.  The 9 is hard to read, but it's clear to have been cast during Dec '66.  Is 4-5 months too far of a spread for a differential?
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on September 09, 2017, 09:20:05 PM
Forgot to say "Thank You"
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: J_Speegle on September 09, 2017, 10:04:27 PM
Jeff,
Another question on date difference from build date.  My 1967 289 San Jose built A code was built on May 8 and I've found the casting part number on the third member of 6C0W-4025-A.  0n the pinion casting there's a few letters that basically illegible.  However has cast date of 6M9.  The 9 is hard to read, but it's clear to have been cast during Dec '66.  Is 4-5 months too far of a spread for a differential?

Well the pinion retainer is only about a month which is fairly typical (one to two months is often found)  But have a few examples from 67 where 4 month spread was found between the rearend 3rd member casting date and the real completion date of the car

You didn't mention what you found on the third member
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on September 09, 2017, 10:13:06 PM
Jeff.  Not sure where to look.  Attaching two photos one of the third member and poorer image of the retainer.
Thank you for responding.
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on September 09, 2017, 10:14:15 PM
Second photo of retainer

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: J_Speegle on September 09, 2017, 10:27:39 PM
Jeff.  Not sure where to look.  Attaching two photos one of the third member and poorer image of the retainer.
Thank you for responding.
Mike

Unfortunately (if the car is together) the date is on the inside surface (in the rearend housing) of the 3rd member by the passenger side bearing retainer
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on September 09, 2017, 10:31:30 PM
Thanks Jeff.  When I rebuild the third member, I'll find it and photo document.
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on October 17, 2017, 02:21:38 PM
Jeff

I was talking to a person who's business revolves around rebuilding certain classic mustang drivetrain components and he advised that my 289 with a cast dat of 4/25 and assembly date of 4/27 was too close to my build date of 5/8/67 build date on my 1967 mustang.  Thought it would be too short of period based on ship times to the San Jose plant.

Your thoughts?
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: midlife on October 17, 2017, 04:17:33 PM
Is your build date from the door VIN tag or from a Marti Report?  The VIN only shows the scheduled build date, not the actual date, which could be days to weeks later. 
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: J_Speegle on October 17, 2017, 04:18:54 PM
Is your build date from the door VIN tag or from a Marti Report?  The VIN only shows the scheduled build date, not the actual date, which could be days to weeks later.

+1  Great question to confirm the facts and the basis to work from
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on October 17, 2017, 04:23:49 PM
Hello

Scheduled date was May 5 and per the Marti report, the actual date was May 8.

Thank you
Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: J_Speegle on October 17, 2017, 04:41:06 PM
Jeff

I was talking to a person who's business revolves around rebuilding certain classic mustang drivetrain components and he advised that my 289 with a cast dat of 4/25 and assembly date of 4/27 was too close to my build date of 5/8/67 build date on my 1967 mustang.  Thought it would be too short of period based on ship times to the San Jose plant.

Your thoughts?
Mike

Yes that is pretty tight and would be the tightest (days between assembly of the engine and its installation in a 67 San Jose but have to report that I do have at least one other example where that spread was one more day than yours so I would think that it was possible.

In the cited examples the assembly date for that 289 was 7E26 with an real build date of 08F. Given that both of these examples were built late in the production year and during months where the weather, that might affect sipping in other months of the year, should not be a factor I think it leads credence to the possibility or facts in this matter

Was lucky enough to have an example of a car completed exactly one month later at San Jose

Would be interested in your VIN so I can add your car to the spread sheet - you can use a PM to do so if you would rather not post it
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: Cool Times on October 17, 2017, 05:56:17 PM
Jeff

I PM'd the VIN to you.

As well, here are the images of the thermactor head casting dates:

I really appreciate everyone on this board.

Mike
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: midlife on October 17, 2017, 06:26:10 PM

In the cited examples the assembly date for that 289 was 7E26 with an real build date of 08F. Given that both of these examples were built late in the production year and during months where the weather, that might affect sipping in other months of the year, should not be a factor I think it leads credence to the possibility or facts in this matter

Was lucky enough to have an example of a car completed the same day as yours - not sure how that happened    8)
Isn't the Build date of 08F be June 8, not May 8?  I don't quite understand the statement of a car completed the same day as yours....
Title: Re: Casting dates on 289 heads
Post by: J_Speegle on October 18, 2017, 01:00:15 AM
Isn't the Build date of 08F be June 8, not May 8?  I don't quite understand the statement of a car completed the same day as yours....

Sorry should have written one month apart exactly. Still the weather and time of year comments would apply

Changed my post to reflect this - thanks for the catch