ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: mustang65ld on January 31, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
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Does anyone have a side-by-side photo of a 1965 Manual disc brake pedal compared to a 1965 Drum brake pedal?
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Does anyone have a side-by-side photo of a 1965 Manual disc brake pedal compared to a 1965 Drum brake pedal?
There's no difference in the pedal for 65-66.
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I am referring to a post that I saw the HIPO forum:
"Another consideration, which many people are unaware of, is that the brake pedal for a disc brake 65 and 66 Mustang is different than a drum brake version. These pedals sometimes get mixed and although the difference is slight, Ford must have made a different pedal for a reason. The difference is the pin location for the master cylinder push rod. The pin on the disc brake pedal is moved down about the same distance as the thickness of the pin. This give the rod a longer travel in the master cylinder. It would also increase pedal effort which is the down side. The pedals are identified by a "D" stamped into the right hand side of the pedal arm just below the master cylinder push rod pin.
-Fred"
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Seems like I keep getting bit lately on some of these details. Fred would know something like that and I verified in the MPC that there is a different part number.
Guess that's what keeps the hobby interesting. Of course, feel foolish that I never noticed that now. :(
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So now the question becomes has anyone documented the difference photographically? What is the different part number call-out in the MPC?
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So now the question becomes has anyone documented the difference photographically? What is the different part number call-out in the MPC?
Would have to look through some pedals I have to see if I can find one different and with the 'D' marking. In the '65 single year MPC, there is a separate part number for drum and disc pedals and then a before/after 8/17/64 date... which I'm guessing is just the change from the 64.5 to 65 style. Since 64.5 brake light switches were on the master cylinder, there must have been some type of change to the brake pedal to accommodate the new style switch on the pedal.
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I have a MT brake pedal from a 65 GT, will have
to check it for the "D" marking.
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Does anyone have a side-by-side photo of a 1965 Manual disc brake pedal compared to a 1965 Drum brake pedal?
Here you go, the pin on the disc brake pedal is a little lower.
Anyone know where the "D" is stamped? Didn't see it but it
is still in the support.
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Thanks for the photo. It is a bit difficult to discern the difference in pin position. Perhaps a measuring tape for reference would help. I am unsure where the D stamping would be. Maybe Fred from the HIPO forum would have a better idea.
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If the question is; Where is the 'D' stamped on a 65 manual disc brake pedal ? The answer is; On my 65 manual disc brake pedal: the 'D' stamping is 1" down from the post , slightly forward, on the gas pedal side. Brian
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Here's two shots of the "D" on the same pedal at the "4:30" position below the pin, gas pedal side. 4/65 Dearborn coupe with Automatic Transmission.
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How much lower is the factory disc brake pedal? what would happen if a DRUM pedal was used?
MY original pedals were rusted beyond saving and I know for a fact that a rebuilt pedal set was installed during the restoration-brakes seem fine......
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The pin the master cylinder rod is attached to is 1/4" lower on the DISC brake pedal assembly than it is on the DRUM brake pedal. Its a little hard to see in the attached photos but the difference is 1/4" as measured with a caliper. Otherwise the two pedal assemblies are identical.
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So maybe the bore of the disc master cylinder is orientated a little lower than the drum master cylinder. Would be interesting to take a measurement with one installed.
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The pin the master cylinder rod is attached to is 1/4" lower on the DISC brake pedal assembly than it is on the DRUM brake pedal. Its a little hard to see in the attached photos but the difference is 1/4" as measured with a caliper. Otherwise the two pedal assemblies are identical.
Thanks for the pictures! I have seen lots of rebuilt/restored pedal assemblies on the market over the years and never have seen any reference to Disc v/s Drum pedals in '65-'66s I don't know as much about '67'-'68s but I seem to remember a difference in them.....
Like I said earlier my pedals were swapped during the restoration, I know for a fact that the rebuilt pedal set interestingly came from a base 6 cylinder coupe that now reside in my '65 K GT Convertible....
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Like I said earlier my pedals were swapped during the restoration, I know for a fact that the rebuilt pedal set interestingly came from a base 6 cylinder coupe that now reside in my '65 K GT Convertible....
If that's the case, then you have the wrong brake pedal for your car.
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Thanks all for providing the photos. The reason I brought this to light here is because I am fanatical about getting every detail of my restoration as close as practical to how it would have rolled down the assembly line. These minute differences fascinate me as both an engineer and restoration enthusiast.
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Thanks all for providing the photos. The reason I brought this to light here is because I am fanatical about getting every detail of my restoration as close as practical to how it would have rolled down the assembly line. This minute differences fascinate me as both an engineer and restoration enthusiast.
Totally agree... and it just goes to show that none of us know everything! I've been restoring these cars for a long time now and this detail had eluded me. Ironically, I'm sure I have noticed brake pedals with the 'D', but never gave it a second thought.
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I am referring to a post that I saw the HIPO forum:
"Another consideration, which many people are unaware of, is that the brake pedal for a disc brake 65 and 66 Mustang is different than a drum brake version. These pedals sometimes get mixed and although the difference is slight, Ford must have made a different pedal for a reason. The difference is the pin location for the master cylinder push rod. The pin on the disc brake pedal is moved down about the same distance as the thickness of the pin. This give the rod a longer travel in the master cylinder. It would also increase pedal effort which is the down side. The pedals are identified by a "D" stamped into the right hand side of the pedal arm just below the master cylinder push rod pin.
-Fred"
So, If I am reading this right by using a DRUM pedal on a DISC setup I have less pedal effort than a DISC pedal would have?
-Sounds like a neat mod to me!
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Totally agree... and it just goes to show that none of us know everything! I've been restoring these cars for a long time now and this detail had eluded me. Ironically, I'm sure I have noticed brake pedals with the 'D', but never gave it a second thought.
So, Is it possible Charles that you put a drum pedal in a disc car and vise/versa during a restoration?
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So, Is it possible Charles that you put a drum pedal in a disc car and vise/versa during a restoration?
Possible? I suppose, but it wouldn't have been done intentionally.
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Sorry for churning up an old thread here but my search for a MT disc brake pedal is fruitless and I was wondering if this same difference, as discussed in this thread, applies to auto trans pedals, ie, is the pivot in a different position and is there a 'D' stamped in the arm?
I would think one could cut down an auto pedal from a disc brake car to get the same pedal as a manual trans car, if they're the same.
Thanks,
Greg Z
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Sorry for churning up an old thread here but my search for a MT disc brake pedal is fruitless and I was wondering if this same difference, as discussed in this thread, applies to auto trans pedals, ie, is the pivot in a different position and is there a 'D' stamped in the arm?
I would think one could cut down an auto pedal from a disc brake car to get the same pedal as a manual trans car, if they're the same.
Thanks,
Greg Z
I would say that both MT and AT cars with disc brakes would have the pin in
the special position, both have the same disc brake master cylinder.
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In honor of Metuchen qwalitee, I present to you a D stamping from my car :P
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In honor of Metuchen qwalitee, I present to you a D stamping from my car :P
Earthquakes in Jersey? Who knew - ;D
Jim
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Not sure how I got here many months later, but I'm doing a Hydroboost swap in my 65 modified car and this car came with factory disc brakes. As it turns out my brake pedal might have swapped as it has the drum brake pedal.
But really, his whole topic is about pedal ratio.
Take the center to center distance of the pivot to center of brake pad (in side view) and divide that by the distance from the center of the pivot to the center of the pin.
A non-power car (generally speaking) should have a pedal ratio in the 6:1 area. Power brakes are in the 4-4.5 area.
[Naturally there is a correlation to master cylinder diameter, not discussed here.]
Using the data from my drum brake pedal I get a ratio of approx 6.5:1. Very standard for a non-power car.
If I increase the distance by 0.25 the ratio is now 5.3:1, hence the pedal pressure is higher (if the same master diameter and calipers are used).
Interestingly the 65/6 power brake system uses the same drum brake pedal and the ratio is changed to 4.3 by a ratio changing bellcrank before the booster.
The 67/8 system changes the pedal ratio by mounting the pivot higher in the pedal box and moving the pin appropriately. So yes, the pedals are very different.
In the case of a Hydroboost system on a 65/6 you have to get down to the boosted pedal ratio in the 4.3 area, so you have to move the location of the pin on the pedal even further than either pedal since there is no bellcrank. Not that any concours person would do something like modifying a 65 ;).
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So you are saying hydro boost ratio is 4.3:1
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The pedal ratios are listed in the 66 shop manual under brakes.
there are 3 ratios listed
manual drum
manual disc
power drum