Author Topic: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #  (Read 8851 times)

Offline soccer1061287

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1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« on: December 18, 2009, 11:58:23 AM »
I have a few questions.  I have a Metuchen buid car with a scheduled build date of 25JN65.  It has what I believe to be the original 200 c.i. engine in it. 

The first question is what color the engine should be painted.  When I disassembled the engine, I found it to be the black block/cylinder head with red air cleaner/rocker cover.  My impression was that with build date, tha the engine should be all blue.  If all blue is the answer, what parts are that color (oil pan, block, cylinder head, rocker cover and air cleaner)?
What is the correct color of blue?

My block is a C6 casting with an engine tag that is consistent with the buiild date.  Does anyone know for sure if the 66 casting was pulled ahead into some of the 65 cars?  Other possibility is that it simply not the original engeine from the car.

Offline caspian65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 12:48:45 PM »
A car scheduled to be built in Jan '65 would be right in the middle of the 1965 production year.  All Mustang engines were supposed to be black, I6 and V8.  The long block assembly should be black on an I6 with a red/orange rocker cover and air cleaner assy.

The C6 castings do not sound correct for a car built around then.  I would expect a C5, but the casting dates should explain what you have.  It's possible you have a replacement block or a whole engine replacement.
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Offline soccer1061287

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 01:39:54 PM »
I am sorry for the confusion, but my car was scheduled to build on June 26, not January 26.  Engine tag reads as follows:  200   65   3  next line  5  E    42 J.   Any help you can be to identify and validate/invalidate this engine as the likely original for the car would be appreciated.  I know that Ford had a habit of pulling parts ahead and with this car being built so late in the MY, I thought that this engine could correct.  Still a C6 casting.

Also, When freshening up the transmission, the tag gave me bad news that it was a 1981 C4.  Other than the NSBU switch, what was different from an appearance point of view?

Offline caspian65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 02:10:19 PM »
That makes more sense.  5E on your engine tag is May '65.  The C6 casting is ok for this time period as we have seen other parts with C6 castings on late '65 cars (4V intake manifolds.)  The casting date will confirm that it is period correct for your car.
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Offline soccer1061287

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 05:42:26 PM »
There is a cast in number on the side of the block opposite of where the casting part number is.  That number is 5G15, which as far as I can tell would be July 15.  Not consistent with the rest of the information.  If however the G is a C (which it may be), then the casting date would be March 15.   Am I correct???

Offline caspian65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 05:51:39 PM »
Yes, you are right about the casting dates.  Check the cylinder head date.
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Offline soccer1061287

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 07:41:20 PM »
Ok,  The block casting date is definitely 5G15 and not 5C15.  Cylinder head build date is 5D21 which is consistent with the engine build tag and the vehicle scheduled build date.  I am almost sure that the block casting number has a single letter suffix which as I recall would indicate a service block.  If it is a service block, will that count against me?  I would likely get judged in the "street driven occasionally" class.

Offline caspian65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 07:45:02 PM »
If you show in the MCA Occasional Driven class, there are no points taken or awarded for authenticity.  That class is judged strictly on workmanship, condition and cleanliness.  Now, if you are referring to MCA Driven Concours, then authenticity is judged, but casting numbers/date codes are not deducted for. 

One other thing you can look for is an assembly date of the block.  It will stamped on a smooth machined section of the block.  I don't recall off-hand where it is on a 6 cyl. though.  Maybe someone else reading will know.  The assembly date would help to determine if the casting date of the block is a C or G.

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Offline soccer1061287

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 11:07:40 PM »
Am I correct in recalling that a single letter suffix in the part number is a service part where a double letter suffix is an engineering number which is what you would find on the block out of the factory?

I have taken measurements on the front end and find that there is something going on that is throwing the diamond off.  Before dis-assembly of the car, the passenger door did hit the fender and had curled the fender around in the area of contact.

Offline caspian65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 11:41:13 PM »
Am I correct in recalling that a single letter suffix in the part number is a service part where a double letter suffix is an engineering number which is what you would find on the block out of the factory?

I haven't heard of that one.  Based on the casting numbers you have provided so far, it appears to be a period-correct engine.  Just possibly not the original for the car.  Still need to do some more detective work to ascertain that though.
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Offline soccer1061287

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 01:53:04 PM »
Regarding the part number suffix thing, Here is how it breaks down.  A single letter suffix is a service part.  A two or three digit suffix represents an engineering release part number.  The two or three digit suffix breaks down like this  The first digit represents (A is initial release, B is first major change).  The second digit in a three digit suffix will always be a number and it would be present to indicate that there are different suppliers for that part.  The third digit in a 3 digit part number suffix represents a minor change to the part, but not major enough to increment the first digit.   

Offline caspian65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 03:12:32 PM »
Yes, I am aware of how the part numbers/engineering numbers break-down.  I had not heard of service/replacement parts having a different suffix just because they were service parts.  If there was an engineering change, no matter if it was a replacement part or not, the suffix would be modified or the whole number changed/superseded.

Try to find that assembly date on your block.  Check near the front on the top driver side of the block.  I believe there is a machined area where you will find a code like 5E20 C
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Offline soccer1061287

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 07:54:59 PM »
I went out to my shop and checked for that assembly date.  Could not find it on either side, top or bottom or any point in between.  IMHO, The evidence is pointing toward this engine having had infant mortality and the block was replaced. 

BTW - The full casting number on the block is C6DE-6015-B.  And if memory serves me right (I sent 19 years as an engineer at Ford) This is a service block.  IF that proves to be true, what affect would this have on judging (I guess from our earlier discussion, Concourse driven). 

My fenders currently are primered in gray inside and out.  Is it ok for me to recoat the inside with red oxide primer.  I know tha tlast question belongs in another category, but please do not yell at me.

Offline Twilight65

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Re: 1965 Mustang Engine Color and block casting #
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2009, 06:19:49 PM »
Here is where the engine assembly date is stamped on my May 1966 200 CI. 6E13V ("E" is stamped backwards). My casting number is also C6DE-6015-B. Dated 6E1
Dave
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 06:22:54 PM by Twilight65 »
65 Coupe Dearborn Scheduled Build July 9,1965 289/C4
66 Sprint Conv. Dearborn Scheduled Build May 13, 1966 200/C4