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1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Shelby => Topic started by: 1967 eight barrel on June 29, 2015, 03:55:49 AM

Title: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on June 29, 2015, 03:55:49 AM
What should the finish be on the 1967 disc brake hose brackets be? I have seen several in black, but these look to have been bare metal originally.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: ruppstang on June 29, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Like this.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 29, 2015, 06:33:01 PM
What should the finish be on the 1967 disc brake hose brackets be? I have seen several in black, but these look to have been bare metal originally.
They were bare metal - before they were dipped in black paint by the sub contractor ,shipped to SJ plant and then installed on your GT500 ;) .
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: ruppstang on June 30, 2015, 09:58:48 PM
They were bare metal - before they were dipped in black paint by the sub contractor ,shipped to SJ plant and then installed on your GT500 ;) .
Bob the ones in the photo are of our 11-04-66 San Jose 67 GTA they were bare when I got it. Were they different on the Shelby's? Or possibly a early late thing?
Marty
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 30, 2015, 10:07:44 PM
Bob the ones in the photo are of our 11-04-66 San Jose 67 GTA they were bare when I got it. Were they different on the Shelby's? Or possibly a early late thing?
Marty
Marty, not typically bare metal regardless of plant and no I haven't come across a Shelby yet  with bare metal brackets not to say it is impossible. The Shelby's were a regular Mustang to begin with . Most likely answer is that it was tampered with.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 01, 2015, 01:52:51 AM
Yes, Marty. That is what mine looked like.  Bob: When taken off the vehicle they were dirty, but showed no sign of paint, and one of the few things that rusted on the vehicle. The heavy pitting, considering it is a California vehicle and that it has sat since 1977 lended to the idea they were bare metal and had corrosion because of the leaking of DOT3 fluids.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 01, 2015, 04:18:08 AM
Yes, Marty. That is what mine looked like.  Bob: When taken off the vehicle they were dirty, but showed no sign of paint, and one of the few things that rusted on the vehicle. The heavy pitting, considering it is a California vehicle and that it has sat since 1977 lended to the idea they were bare metal and had corrosion because of the leaking of DOT3 fluids.
You asked the question and like I said it is not typical. It would be a source of a deduction in concours because of that if it matters. Just passing on information based on my past experience .What you do with the information is up to you.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 01, 2015, 07:46:13 AM
Bob:
I was trying to make sense as well. I am the second owner of the vehicle. It sat since 1977 in a garage. I did blast them clean, but because they were pitted, and nothing else on the vehicle is, I assumed they had been bare metal, and by all indicators based on the pitting they were.
I have seen them both ways, and I asked here instead of just going back to a painted metal looking finish. I guess dipped semi-gloss is what they will be.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: ruppstang on July 01, 2015, 09:11:24 AM
Bob:
I was trying to make sense as well. I am the second owner of the vehicle. It sat since 1977 in a garage. I did blast them clean, but because they were pitted, and nothing else on the vehicle is, I assumed they had been bare metal, and by all indicators based on the pitting they were.
I have seen them both ways, and I asked here instead of just going back to a painted metal looking finish. I guess dipped semi-gloss is what they will be.

Our GTA also sat for many years and was very original which makes me wonder why anyone would change this part. I am sure Bob is correct but at this point I am not sure if I will change our car. I will make it a point to look at more of these then decide.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 01, 2015, 10:15:35 AM
I am curious too, I actually went out to the garage this morning to check on my brackets (11/02/66 SJ actual build date)
for whatever reason, I did not locate them after searching all of my "baggies" and "boxes".  (I did locate something I couldn't find on Monday though, doing the same shake-down lol!) Once I do locate them, I have this thread flagged and will supply what I have found out. This area would be "unrestored" previous to my disassembly, worst case scenario would be I shot paint over outside surface during a 1997 refresh but the faces against the frame will be what I focus on mostly, those had never been taken loose before last year's disassemble. Memory tells me they were bare steel, memory also tells me I only previously repainted under the hood since this car was kept in California desert it's whole life, this area and underside of my car were untouched before this resoration.

I'll update when I find them.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: jwc66k on July 01, 2015, 02:33:09 PM
I think the disk brake brackets used on 67 Mustangs are the same as those used on all 64 thru 66 Mustangs.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 01, 2015, 06:54:38 PM
I think the disk brake brackets used on 67 Mustangs are the same as those used on all 64 thru 66 Mustangs.
Jim

No, actually the disc brake cars are different than the drum brake cars. The 67-8 vehicles are the same. I don't believe the 65-6 cars are.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 01, 2015, 07:08:58 PM
I am curious too, I actually went out to the garage this morning to check on my brackets (11/02/66 SJ actual build date)
for whatever reason, I did not locate them after searching all of my "baggies" and "boxes".  (I did locate something I couldn't find on Monday though, doing the same shake-down lol!) Once I do locate them, I have this thread flagged and will supply what I have found out. This area would be "unrestored" previous to my disassembly, worst case scenario would be I shot paint over outside surface during a 1997 refresh but the faces against the frame will be what I focus on mostly, those had never been taken loose before last year's disassemble. Memory tells me they were bare steel, memory also tells me I only previously repainted under the hood since this car was kept in California desert it's whole life, this area and underside of my car were untouched before this resoration.

I'll update when I find them.

I know Bob seems to take it personally when he is questioned, but when you're the one that took the vehicle apart and you know the original owner who lived three doors down from you and knew what service was performed on the vehicle and it had been off the road since 1977 it's not likely that they would have been changed. I know sometimes we see strange things, but I have cleaned parts and they were bare, why I don't know. I saw pictures and saw them painted semi-gloss black on several restored vehicles. I need to pull a Marti Report, but I believe my vehicle was a Nov -Dec 66 build, and being a Shelby we know it was San Jose/Milpitias. Perhaps I should just dip them to make everyone happy if that was the finish that is considered "factory".  This is what makes it confusing for the rest of us. 
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 01, 2015, 09:10:55 PM
DRUM ROLL! I found my original actual build date of 11/2/66 disc brake hose front brackets, cleaned off the caked grime from where it mounts and can CLEARLY see what the finish is. Bob is once again correct. They are CLEARLY dipped black. Now, the outer sides where there was no grime built up, the finish looked to be bare steel, with light surface rusting so I can see how that assumption would look to be correct too. I would need to do some more cleaning to get a good picture of these. One, still has the brake hose in it, the other was seperated from the hose. I have NO OTHER PARTS HERE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN MIXED UP BY MISTAKE. These are correct for my application and they WILL be dipped again at reassembly.

 
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: ruppstang on July 01, 2015, 10:45:04 PM
Thanks Richard I probably made that mistake on our car as it was my first concours car in the 90s. Your car was built two days before ours so it will be black dipped also.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: J_Speegle on July 01, 2015, 11:34:12 PM
Just thought I would add that I've seen and taken pictures of original cars with both finishes. Not sure if its a supplier or tied to when the car was built ( San Jose 67 Disc brake Mustangs) but right now it appears to be a supplier thing IMHO. Often its impossible to determine the finish without touching and cleaning on an otherwise original but dirty undercarriage though in some cases like below the amount of rust (when compared to know painted and unpainted surfaces right next to it) helps in the determination

Suggest its a supplier thing since the two unrestored examples below were built one day apart at San Jose.
Finishes did match side to side which is interesting but seen much odder things through the years. Drivers and passenger sides both shown - one per car/example


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-010715212824.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-010715213250.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: jwc66k on July 02, 2015, 12:26:48 AM
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-010715213250.jpeg)
That is the same bracket used on a 64-66 Mustang brake system for both drum and disc brakes. Drum brakes for 67, and on, used a different bracket. Disc brakes for 68 on were different than 67 as the 67 disc brakes were the 4 piston KH type (different dia hoses than 64-66), 68 were the floating type. All the 64-67 brackets I've removed, mostly San Jose, were painted.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 02, 2015, 01:16:54 AM
Well, black it is.....  It'll cover the pitting on the inner fender side better anyway.
Now that we know they are applicable for 65-6 I may try and find a better set for mine.  Interesting to know they'll interchange. I knew they were different for 67-on drum applications because I did the brakes on the neighbor's '68 drum vehicle.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 02, 2015, 01:23:53 AM
That is the same bracket used on a 64-66 Mustang brake system for both drum and disc brakes. Drum brakes for 67, and on, used a different bracket. Disc brakes for 68 on were different than 67 as the 67 disc brakes were the 4 piston KH type (different dia hoses than 64-66), 68 were the floating type. All the 64-67 brackets I've removed, mostly San Jose, were painted.
Jim

Jim, the '67 disc brake hose is different from 65-6 disc cars as well. The theaded portion that goes into the caliper for 1967 is 7/16. It also makes the copper washers more difficult to come by than the previous years.  I haven't tinkered too much with the 65-6 cars.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 02, 2015, 01:56:11 AM
Jim, the '67 disc brake hose is different from 65-6 disc cars as well. The theaded portion that goes into the caliper for 1967 is 7/16. It also makes the copper washers more difficult to come by than the previous years.  I haven't tinkered too much with the 65-6 cars.
It is a early late thing. The earliest 67's used the smaller typical 65/66 disc brake hose.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: J_Speegle on July 02, 2015, 01:58:14 AM
It is a early late thing. The earliest 67's used the smaller typical 65/66 disc brake hose.

+1 There is at least one thread with pictures showing some of the early details.

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5499.msg49179#msg49179 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5499.msg49179#msg49179)


Got to love the running changes of 67 production  ::)
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: jwc66k on July 02, 2015, 01:06:23 PM
It is a early late thing. The earliest 67's used the smaller typical 65/66 disc brake hose.
Apparently installed into May 67, for at least one San Jose "A" code Fastback. The car sat in a field in Hayward, CA for at least 10 years and was pulled out 12 years ago. No way to show continuity there. A Marti report confirmed factory disc.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: TLea on July 03, 2015, 07:57:48 AM
The 67-8 vehicles are the same.
68 very different from 67
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 03, 2015, 09:37:08 AM
It is a early late thing. The earliest 67's used the smaller typical 65/66 disc brake hose.

+1

Recently, there was a thread on identifying 67 Calipers, it discussed and provided images of some differences in those Early/Late 4 piston calipers for 67's. Not sure the hose mounting bracket was discussed, now I have to wonder if there were two, fortunately, I have the correct ones either way but others may not.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 03, 2015, 09:50:26 AM
Just thought I would add that I've seen and taken pictures of original cars with both finishes. Not sure if its a supplier or tied to when the car was built ( San Jose 67 Disc brake Mustangs) but right now it appears to be a supplier thing IMHO. Often its impossible to determine the finish without touching and cleaning on an otherwise original but dirty undercarriage though in some cases like below the amount of rust (when compared to know painted and unpainted surfaces right next to it) helps in the determination

Suggest its a supplier thing since the two unrestored examples below were built one day apart at San Jose.
Finishes did match side to side which is interesting but seen much odder things through the years. Drivers and passenger sides both shown - one per car/example


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-010715212824.jpeg)

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-010715213250.jpeg)

I really wonder about the "supplier" theory. Photos do seem to supply evidence that suggest otherwise but I still wonder because my example that has not been driven in anything except Southern California desert area rain throughout it's pre-restored life, the brackets looked virtually just like the "unpainted" ones pictured in Jeff's pictures on the outside surfaces, evidence of a little minimal rusting, yet on the backside and in areas where grime had built up above the brackets, they are CLEARLY painted (dipped) black. THEN, add the fact that my frame rails in the same area are near perfectly preserved engine compartment black, needing only a light solvent cleaning, with most of the original underbody (salmon) color very nice and unscaved (further note: transfered some of the salmon underbody color stuck onto the black brackets, further indicating my example as unmolested over the years)

Again, at a glance, I can certainly see how somebody would believe them to be bare steel, while (using my example) in reality they were originally dipped.

To me, at least on what I am looking at, it is more of an "exposure to the elements" sort of thing. An unrestored in a good climate controlled storage would show all black, IMHO while another example that was driven daily would look like bare steel...Well, that's my theory at this point in time.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 03, 2015, 10:13:14 AM
Going back to the O.P's initial question:

What should the finish be on the 1967 disc brake hose brackets be? I have seen several in black, but these look to have been bare metal originally.

ANSWER: Bare steel, then DIP them BLACK!  I've heard it said before~once you go black, you'll never go back!  :o ;D
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 03, 2015, 01:05:46 PM
SanJose.. Good reason to stay natural? LOL    I think the black is going to be the easiest to maintain, so I am going to black dipped. However, the Caliper theory is now in question knowing my vehicle was unmolested and it is definately 7/16 as an early Dec build. What gives?
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 03, 2015, 02:44:21 PM
SanJose.. Good reason to stay natural? LOL    I think the black is going to be the easiest to maintain, so I am going to black dipped. However, the Caliper theory is now in question knowing my vehicle was unmolested and it is definately 7/16 as an early Dec build. What gives?
There were Oct and Nov 67 Shelby's built too  ;) . I would be a little surprised to find a car built in the Dec time frame that had the the smaller brake hose feature. 
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: J_Speegle on July 03, 2015, 03:24:36 PM
Going back to the O.P's initial question:

ANSWER: Bare steel, then DIP them BLACK! ..........................

Going to disagree

ANSWER:  Either way. Now if your showing the car you may choose to go with the expected until something is adopted or modified

Of course we don't all have to agree all the time - that is how things progress
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 03, 2015, 04:24:27 PM
Going to disagree

ANSWER:  Either way. Now if your showing the car you may choose to go with the expected until something is adopted or modified

Of course we don't all have to agree all the time - that is how things progress
+1. That is why I said typical . Non typical has a different set of challanges.

Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 03, 2015, 04:30:25 PM
Going to disagree

ANSWER:  Either way. Now if your showing the car you may choose to go with the expected until something is adopted or modified

Of course we don't all have to agree all the time - that is how things progress

That is the good part...True, we can agree to disagree though I could EASILY be convinced otherwise as to whether or not these brackets were installed bare steel and/or painted. Personally, I do not care. I have proven to myself anyways what my example had on it from the factory. I will photograph & document what I found.
I was also trying to be careful in my wording that my opinion is based on my OWN example and suplemented with your (Jeff's) pictures. The FIRST picture you posted in what is taken as being "bare steel" is basically what my example looked like...till I looked behind them. My thoughts on ANY unrestored examples, assuming this is what Jeff pictured, that it COULD be difficult to see what is lurking on the backside of the bracket. It WOULD be nice to see what is on the backside of that first image showing surface rust.  Obviously, it is a picture but if somebody knows the car it was taken of, it would not be difficult to look behind it (though likely nobody ever would~I wouldn't touch my unrestored either)
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: J_Speegle on July 03, 2015, 05:31:50 PM
Agree 67gtasanjose. You've proven and documented what was on your car and hard to argue with that

My thoughts on ANY unrestored examples, assuming this is what Jeff pictured, that it COULD be difficult to see what is lurking on the backside of the bracket. It WOULD be nice to see what is on the backside of that first image showing surface rust.  Obviously, it is a picture but if somebody knows the car it was taken of, it would not be difficult to look behind it (though likely nobody ever would~I wouldn't touch my unrestored either)


As far as the pictures - just comparing how the painted and bare surfaces developed on all parts in the area - bringing me to my conclusion. Will continue to keep an eye open for additional examples in non- show settings so I can loosen a few and confirm that the protected surface matches the exposed surface

Will have to look around - think there might be two to four  67-8  Mustangs at one of the local shops. Parts taken off are likely labled and in boxes. Unless someone has blasted them :(
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 03, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Agree 67gtasanjose. You've proven and documented what was on your car and hard to argue with that


As far as the pictures - just comparing how the painted and bare surfaces developed on all parts in the area - bringing me to my conclusion. Will continue to keep an eye open for additional examples in non- show settings so I can loosen a few and confirm that the protected surface matches the exposed surface

Will have to look around - think there might be two to four  67-8  Mustangs at one of the local shops. Parts taken off are likely labled and in boxes. Unless someone has blasted them :(
Completely understandable, that is exactly how I had viewed MINE beore examining them closer. My control arms look like those ones do, my frame and inner fenders look like those in that first picture. My take on it is the paint that they are dipped into is a low-grade paint and differs from the quality that would be used elsewhere in the assembly, thus making my brackets LOOK like they were bare at first, only to find out otherwise. Notice my comment much earlier in the thread:

.... This area would be "unrestored" previous to my disassembly, worst case scenario would be I shot paint over outside surface during a 1997 refresh but the faces against the frame will be what I focus on mostly, those had never been taken loose before last year's disassemble. Memory tells me they were bare steel, memory also tells me I only previously repainted under the hood since this car was kept in California desert it's whole life, this area and underside of my car were untouched before this resoration.

I'll update when I find them.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: sgl66 on July 06, 2015, 12:22:48 AM
I removed brackets today from my 66 Metuchen car. I have no reason to believe the backs have seen the light of day in 50 years and surprised to see shiney bare metal but also lots of remnants of low quality black paint.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: J_Speegle on July 06, 2015, 12:31:20 AM
I removed brackets today from my 66 Metuchen car. I have no reason to believe the backs have seen the light of day in 50 years and surprised to see shiney bare metal but also lots of remnants of low quality black paint.


Unfortunately - different plant and year that being discussed
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: sgl66 on July 06, 2015, 12:47:44 AM

Unfortunately - different plant and year that being discussed
Yup...saw reference to 64-66 being the same bracket and it may be a supplier thing. Anyhow, figured while I had them off today I would grab a pic to support the low quality paint theory.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 10, 2015, 09:13:46 PM
I removed brackets today from my 66 Metuchen car. I have no reason to believe the backs have seen the light of day in 50 years and surprised to see shiney bare metal but also lots of remnants of low quality black paint.

That's not low quality paint, it looks more like it suffered a break fluid leak. That will peel paint quickly.
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: sgl66 on July 11, 2015, 04:25:33 PM
it looks more like it suffered a break fluid leak. That will peel paint quickly.
Correct, I was replacing brake hose. I use silicone fluid which doesn't remove paint  ;)
Title: Re: 1967 disc brake hose brackets.
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on October 04, 2015, 11:58:29 AM
Here's the issue at hand. Unlike many components made for/ by Ford, there is no zinc, cadmium or primer in use to protect the bare stamping, and quite possibly had some surface corrosion on them before being painted. This would also explain why vehicles, even in dry climates have pitting and heavy corrosion. Just a passing thought......

                                                                                -Keith