ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Mustang => Topic started by: imnutz66 on February 09, 2010, 10:39:52 AM
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I was reading the previous post about paint line on doors and I was wondering about the black-out area on Mach 1 doors and rockers - my car was re-painted before I got it, and nothing was done to the finish before the rocker mouldings were re-installed, and I have read that the areas between and below the mouldings need to be black and not body color. How was this done at the factory and what if any is the proper overspray? ???
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I was reading the previous post about paint line on doors and I was wondering about the blackout area on Mach 1 doors and rockers - my car was repainted before I got it, and nothing was done to the finish before the rocker mouldings were reinstalled, and I have read that the areas between and below the mouldings need to be black and not body color. How was this done at the factory and what if any is the proper overspray? ???
Noticed this is your first post - Welcome
As you will notice, most of the time we will need to know when and where your car was built so we can provide the best possible answer to your question. You can either just put it permanently at the bottom each post by putting it in your signature or simply include it each time. Often your VIN and the the real completion date (from your Marti report if you have one) works the quickest and easiest.
So with that said - When and where was the car built? ;)
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Jeff,
did body color also play a part?
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Thanks for the welcome, great to find the site and be here. My car is a October 69 build in Dearborn, body is calypso coral, I will edit my signature when I get five minutes.
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...........My car is a October 69 build in Dearborn, body is calypso coral,....................
OK we can work with that information
There are what appears to be three areas of the body that were handled differently on 70 Dearborn Mach I's
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One was the taillight panel where the paint received a coat of black paint between the taillight openings. The effect blacked out the gap between the taillight housing and the applique panel as well as the gap between that panel and the trunk lock bezel or trim surround
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162026-8116894.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162025-81151463.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162023-81141454.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162022-811396.jpeg)
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Second black out detail appears to be a difference in the height of the normal pinch weld black out. Instead of stopping on the bottom horizontal surface of the rocker they applied it much high to about where the side cladding would be attached.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162020-8111476.jpeg)
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Thirdly appears to be an effort to black out the gaps between the various cladding pieces attached to the front fender, door, rocker panel and the rear quarter panel. This appears to all have been applied with a brush as shown in the pictures.
So you have
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1- Front fenders appear to have been blacked out allot. Looks like a brush and possibly spray to apply and since they were painted (with exterior color) IMHO they were likely blacked out on the other paint line (where all the individual parts were painted) rather than once they were installed on the car
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162014-81061466.jpeg)
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2- Rocker panel (in addition to the pinch weld blackout)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162028-81181189.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162017-81091977.jpeg)
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3- Door edges (sorry no real good clear picture of the forward or rear edges painted on a Dearborn car IMHO they were done as they were at other plants) See blue arrow in the fender picture below for a glimpse of the black out. Like the (top of the L on the quarter panel black out) the black appears to stop at or about where the bottom edge of the chrome strip along the top of the cladding would be.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817163335.jpeg)
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4- Rear quarter panel - basically a big "L" shape on both sides
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162027-81171591.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162015-81071886.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162016-81082337.jpeg)
The only conflict I found was the handling of the black out on the rocker panel as it curves into the door opening - towards the sill plate. On three cars I have pictures of the black stops at or near the edge where the panel curves into the door opening and one car it appears that it was blacked out all the way to the sill plate. Since this is a single finding IMHO it was likely a mistake made by a fill in person or , since this car was an earlier car (117xxx verses 167xxx or 176xxx) it may be something that was changed between the time the examples were built.
Example of the paint break at the edge of the rocker/sill on the "later" cars (Approx Oct - on)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817162021-81121687.jpeg)
In this one (green arrow ) you can see part of the front edge of the rocker panel black out shown in the other picture
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-210817163509-8125405.jpeg)
As always - this is based on what I currently have available and my current understanding based on this data. Hope this helps
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Thanks for the great info Jeff, exactly what I was looking for. Even though I have an early # before 117, I think the line looks better at the top of the rocker curve than all the way to the sill plate, I think that will be my course of action, thanks again
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Thanks for the great info Jeff, exactly what I was looking for. Even though I have an early # before 117, I think the line looks better at the top of the rocker curve than all the way to the sill plate, I think that will be my course of action, thanks again
Your welcome.
One of the problems is figuring out where any car is in the "pattern or change" unless we have Marti reports on all the cars. You car may have been built after 117xxx for all we know
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Just one more quick one, the black used appears to be the same as used on the hood center stripe, would that be correct?
Joe
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Just one more quick one, the black used appears to be the same as used on the hood center stripe, would that be correct?
Joe
Do not believe so- it appears to be a smooth semi gloss like what was used for the pinch welds IMHO there appears to have been IMHO a can with a brush and black part at one or more locations along the line IMHO. Have seen it used when workers missed the head light black outs, pinch weld black out in a section or area, at the engine compartment to body color on top of the engine compartment walls and other locations
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Hi Jeff, I am in the process of doing a rotisserie resto om my 1970 Dearborn Mach 1 R-code, calypso coral with white interior and would like any info and pics you are willing to share regarding black out on the pinch weld area and other. I see this post has a number of pictures but I can not access them, would it be possible to get these pictures. Thanks
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Took the opportunity to add some pictures, make them more uniform and freshen a few things up
Hope this helps
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Jeff, thanks so much for the pictures, they are awesome details and really helps me better understand the different concepts used to blackout the rocker molding area on the bottom of the 1970 Mach 1.
My Mach1 was built on Sept 04, 1969, I have the Marti Report and a letter from Ford verifying all the options and build details.
I also have some pictures for tail panel blackout, which show three separate area blackouts as compared to these with have it all black out from light bezel to light bezel, which method is 1970 Dearborn method?
Regarding the blackout of the door sill area, I have noticed in various posts that a vinyl/plastic angle strip was also used on some cars to black out the 1/2" wide area next to the rocker molding.
Not sure how that would have been attached and is it correct for the Dearborn cars?
Can you elaborate on this and do you have any pics, I understand NPD now sells this vinyl/plastic strip exclusively.
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Jeff, thanks so much for the pictures, they are awesome details and really helps me better understand the different concepts used to blackout the rocker molding area on the bottom of the 1970 Mach 1.
My Mach1 was built on Sept 04, 1969, I have the Marti Report and a letter from Ford verifying all the options and build details.
I also have some pictures for tail panel blackout, which show three separate area blackouts as compared to these with have it all black out from light bezel to light bezel, which method is 1970 Dearborn method?
If this is from your early car and the paint was all original copy what you found and make sure you keep the documentation. What you found may be something they tried at first them discovered it was easier/quicker/cheaper just to paint the larger one area
Regarding the blackout of the door sill area, I have noticed in various posts that a vinyl/plastic angle strip was also used on some cars to black out the 1/2" wide area next to the rocker molding.
Not sure how that would have been attached and is it correct for the Dearborn cars?
Can you elaborate on this and do you have any pics, I understand NPD now sells this vinyl/plastic strip exclusively.
Guess you tried the search feature since this was discussed a while back - Found the thread from 2012 using "plastic 70 Mach rocker " Few things have changed since that thread like the productions being available
I think the question of when the plants started using the strip may still be in question. I do have one or two unrestored Oct 69 built Dearborn Mach I's without the strip
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So would a black car have the same process? Maybe its a stupid question I have a all black car it has been repainted red apparently involved in a fender bender at one time. Dearborn car too I might ad. Mark
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So would a black car have the same process? Maybe its a stupid question I have a all black car it has been repainted red apparently involved in a fender bender at one time. Dearborn car too I might ad. Mark
Mark have no examples so I have no idea or documentation to base an idea on. I can't recall seeing any but its not often you see a stripped down (wide side cladding off) black 70 Dearborn Mach I
Would guess that it would be treated like the pinch weld black out and would be something workers would be instructed to skip but if one got the detail that would not surprise me
Good question
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Unfortunately my car was repainted in the late 70's and the owner changed the original color from Calypso Coral to a custom mural green, it was a bad repaint and they black out a lot of areas including inside the trunk, but mostly just masked off the body and when I stripped the car down it had coral and green all over the place. I have attached a pre-disassembly photo and two tail panel blackouts. I disassembled the car 10 years ago and did not take detailed photos of the blackouts and other as I was not paying attention at that time and also did not know about the black out areas. I also have two pics that barely show the rocker and front of door areas, fenders removed. At the time was not thinking of a concours type restoration.
Regarding the honeycomb tail panel color and head light bezel inserts, what color should those be, I have seen much discussion but NO definitive answer.
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Odd that some of these look brushed on, some look sprayed and some have crisp lines that look like a stencil/tape of some sort was used. And I mean all of the pictures as a whole.
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From what I can tell, the tail panel either had a really good fitting stencil or was taped off.
I looks like my pinch welds where blacked out with the mach1 rocker molding mounting strip on the car and where paint all the way up and including the small 1/2" strip on the door sill.
The areas under the mach1 moldings on the doors where bushed and so where the areas in front of them going down to the pinch weld
You need look close at the pictures to see this, wish I had been more knowledgeable at the time I took these pics, would have had much better detail.
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From what I can tell, the tail panel either had a really good fitting stencil or was taped off.
I looks like my pinch welds where blacked out with the mach1 rocker molding mounting strip on the car and where paint all the way up and including the small 1/2" strip on the door sill.
The areas under the mach1 moldings on the doors where bushed and so where the areas in front of them going down to the pinch weld
You need look close at the pictures to see this, wish I had been more knowledgeable at the time I took these pics, would have had much better detail.
Just to clarify for readers. Yours is a 70 Dearborn Mach I- correct? What exterior color?
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That is correct Jeff, built Sept 04, 1969, 428CJ R-code, C6, Calypso Coral c/w white interior.
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I have several pictures of my Mach 1 rocker area, not good ones, but they show the blackout on the entire rocker panel up from the pinch weld to the door sill. They also show that the Mach1 rocker molding retaining strips where installed after the car was painted the Calypso Coral body color but before the blackout paint. Have you seen where the blackout was sprayed over the rocker molding retaining strips on any other early built 1970 Mach 1 mustangs?
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I have several pictures of my Mach 1 rocker area, not good ones, but they show the blackout on the entire rocker panel up from the pinch weld to the door sill. They also show that the Mach1 rocker molding retaining strips where installed after the car was painted the Calypso Coral body color but before the blackout paint. Have you seen where the blackout was sprayed over the rocker molding retaining strips on any other early built 1970 Mach 1 mustangs?
No
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Thanks Jeff,
I am going to mount the retainer strip and blackout over it like my original.
Do you have any data/pics on the blackout in the rear wheel tubs?
I understand that in some cases as the car was going down the line and the guy in the pit was spraying the pinch weld blackout they would also spray over the body color in the tub.
I would guess this blackout in the tub would not be a complete blackout especially on the closest inner face to the outside of the car.
Any thoughts on this??
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Thanks Jeff,
I am going to mount the retainer strip and blackout over it like my original.
Do you have any data/pics on the blackout in the rear wheel tubs?
I understand that in some cases as the car was going down the line and the guy in the pit was spraying the pinch weld blackout they would also spray over the body color in the tub.
I would guess this blackout in the tub would not be a complete blackout especially on the closest inner face to the outside of the car.
Any thoughts on this??
The jet or worker were not in a pit spraying this details from what I understand and it may (depending on year and plant) may have not been applied by a worker but by a premounted jet that was triggered by the moving body
Normally a spot or area at the front of the rear wheel well and at the start of the rear edge inward and backwards (often ending up on the frame rail) is often found about the size of a fist to out streached hand at both lower areas
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Thanks Jeff, I may be mistaking the blackout to undercoating, I am fussing with should I black out my wheel tubs or leave them body color, my gut tells me undercoat and/or blackout so as the body color is not seen behind the wheels just as the blackout work is done on the Mach 1 to not reveal body color between the rocker moldings and on the pinch weld areas. What would be the correct look for the wheel tubs??
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...........What would be the correct look for the wheel tubs??
Sine the factory sound deadener was pliable the body color sprayed over it didn't hold up well over time and often most of the color is gone or many of us simply rattle caned over it (or recoated it with undercoating) to improve the looks. Originally the painter applying the exterior color would have applied a nice coat of paint to the fender lip of the rear quarter panel. At least 50% of the spray gun pattern would have typically been sprayed directly over the sound deadener above and next to the fender lip leaving a shadow directly behind the lip.
When the painter next painted the exterior surface of the quarter panel the painter would pass the gun (open and flowing) over the wheel well opening so 100% of all that color would have slowed into and on to most of the sound deadener behind, above, in front of and behind where the wheel would be mounted and onto the exposed frame rail visible in the wheel well. Additionally the overspray would have traveled further inward on to the floors, brackets and other items attached below as it did on the floors and frame rails under the car
IF you check out the article on restoring the undercarriage of a 70 Dearborn Mustang in the 70 Library section this subject is covered in that article
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Jeff thanks for the detailed replay, will also look at the library, am new member so not quite familiar with the site.
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Jeff thanks for the detailed replay, will also look at the library, am new member so not quite familiar with the site.
Understand even in the relatively short time the site has been up there has been at posted here. Sometimes you have to search it out - glad to help