Author Topic: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?  (Read 784 times)

Offline cmfuser01

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1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« on: April 02, 2017, 10:36:35 AM »
Though the title says GT 350 I believe this question is germane to other SJ built cars of the same period.

I need to understand, and hopefully photos can be provided, what the correct finish would be for the inside, back side or underside (however it's referred to) of the front fenders... and I mean just the fenders themselves. Some photos I've seen look like a combination of red oxide and bare steel and some folks talk about sound deadener.

Any and all guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2017, 11:04:05 AM »
My 11/2/66 built SJ example has a brownish-pink almost salmon colored primer on the undersides of the fenders (I have not stripped them yet) There is NO SIGN of any sound deadener on them at all nor any undercoating of any sort. I could look again around the headlight area to double check for any usage of any sealant, but I think this is fairly accurate. There was no sign of sealant on the rear fender splash shield as found on other examples from other plants and time periods. There is obvious body color over sprayed on top of this primer/sealer at insides of rear fender reinforcement and headlamp area as well as the wheel opening, with overspray lightly reaching the under side of the fender's top due to the wheel opening. I'd say about 60-80% of the under side of the fender you see the primer sealer and the remainder is body color overspray. Scarely any "bare metal" found but any noted would be what was missed by the primer coat and limited to areas like behind the rear welded in fender support since the primer was sprayed (not dipped).
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline cmfuser01

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2017, 01:57:39 PM »
My 11/2/66 built SJ example has a brownish-pink almost salmon colored primer on the undersides of the fenders (I have not stripped them yet) There is NO SIGN of any sound deadener on them at all nor any undercoating of any sort. I could look again around the headlight area to double check for any usage of any sealant, but I think this is fairly accurate. There was no sign of sealant on the rear fender splash shield as found on other examples from other plants and time periods. There is obvious body color over sprayed on top of this primer/sealer at insides of rear fender reinforcement and headlamp area as well as the wheel opening, with overspray lightly reaching the under side of the fender's top due to the wheel opening. I'd say about 60-80% of the under side of the fender you see the primer sealer and the remainder is body color overspray. Scarely any "bare metal" found but any noted would be what was missed by the primer coat and limited to areas like behind the rear welded in fender support since the primer was sprayed (not dipped).

Thanks Richard! This seems like an excellent description.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2017, 07:06:35 PM »
Would not expect to see any bare steel on the back side on an original. Rust may have developed over decades of poor storage and such.

Back sides of the fenders can be (looking at originals) heavy dusting/coat of paint just about everywhere (if the worker for some reason got carried away) or a red oxide with limited body color overspray  and areas of nice exterior color in the logical locations.  What I mean by that is there are exterior surfaces of the fender that were coated and when sprayed would produce direct application of body color on panels directly behind or next those panels. In addition there are areas, such as the back end of the fender that would be visible through the door opening when the door was fully opened, the headlight area, from painting the wheel lip section, area behind the surface where the front valance would be attached.  What you don't want is a spot where you have a nice shinny coat of body color and directly next to or behind, by a couple of inches no overspray. This suggests that your painted taped off the openings and tried to fake the overspray later.  Also the new guns (painters sometimes use small guns for the details) don't apply a nice fog of overspray like the original guns and you can often tell the difference

As for sound deadener I've found about 20-30% of the cars with sound deadener along the back side of the front fenders that was applied at the same time as the inner fender panels. From below in a pit so the under sides of the top of the fender was pretty easy to run the wand along. This pass would often include the inner fender panel lip.







Jeff Speegle

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Offline brennancarey

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2017, 01:51:31 AM »
Hi,

Interesting.... thks for the info.

Would the salmon red primer on inner front fenders be for all assembly plants ? Ie would Dearborn also have salmon red primer on front fenders or slop grey ?
67 GTA 390 Fastback
Dark Moss Green
Dearborn
Build Date 12/28/66

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2017, 01:55:43 AM »
Hi,

Interesting.... thks for the info.

Would the salmon red primer on inner front fenders be for all assembly plants ? Ie would Dearborn also have salmon red primer on front fenders or slop grey ?

The panels that arrived, like fenders and hoods, already were primered prior to their arrival at the plants so that finish (strong red oxide or a variation) would be dependent on when they were painted at the sheet metal plant and what plant they were made at.

Has nothing to do with the sealer/primer applied to the floor or unibody at each plant.

So an Oct 66 Dearborn front fender might have straight true red oxide, a lighter shade or a darker one. The pictures I posted are not something I would describe as "salmon" in person
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline brennancarey

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 09:05:19 AM »
The panels that arrived, like fenders and hoods, already were primered prior to their arrival at the plants so that finish (strong red oxide or a variation) would be dependent on when they were painted at the sheet metal plant and what plant they were made at.

Has nothing to do with the sealer/primer applied to the floor or unibody at each plant.

So an Oct 66 Dearborn front fender might have straight true red oxide, a lighter shade or a darker one. The pictures I posted are not something I would describe as "salmon" in person

oh.... ok.... never would have thought of that but makes prefect sense.. we keep on learning !
67 GTA 390 Fastback
Dark Moss Green
Dearborn
Build Date 12/28/66

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 09:12:52 PM »
The salmon color appears to be just a light red-oxide.
My early February 67 date stamped SJ Shelby has Dearborn fenders as indicated by the D stamp
on a lot of its individual date stamped fender pieces.
[on edit -- These are NOT Dearborn fenders -- see post below]

You can really make out the salmon color when you sand through the light misted color on the interior of the fender:

[click on this picture to be taken my Flickr site. Click on Flickr site picture to zoom]

More pics of this fender are available.

It appears I need new shoes too.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 10:46:15 PM by Bossbill »
Bill V.
3/2/1967 SJ GT350 and other fastbacks

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 09:48:05 PM »
My early February 67 date stamped SJ Shelby has Dearborn fenders as indicated by the D stamp
on a lot of its individual date stamped fender pieces.

More pics of this fender are available.

Did you find the date on the headlight section, rear support or on the fender lip?  The pattern you reported doesn't match with that was used on the fender lip during your cars build period from the pictures and cars I have records of.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 10:45:26 PM »
No, you are correct.
The fender was very dirty in the fender lip area and even cleaned up it was very hard to read.
I wrote D in my notes based on the other D parts.

Today I took both fenders out and applied a generous coat of paint stripper and removed the grunge.
The fenders do not designate "D", rather they just indicate a shift (3) with no plant designation at all on the right fender
while the left just has a date code with no shift or plant designation.

Sorry for the confusion.
[editted to clean up some verbiage]
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:14:12 AM by Bossbill »
Bill V.
3/2/1967 SJ GT350 and other fastbacks

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 01:58:06 AM »
I took both fenders out and applied a generous coat of paint stripper and removed the grunge.
The fenders are do not designate "D", rather they just indicate a shift (3) with no designation at all on the right fender
and the left just has a date code with no shift or plant designation.


Should (typical of that year and plant) have the month, day of month and shift as shown in the parts dating article posted in the Library Looks like you just mistakenly added shift to your last sentence but mentioned it had shift on the line above that one
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 11:38:09 AM »
I'm not sure if this board wants us to correct a previous post or clean up any confusion in a later post. I'll do the later.


I understand the sheet metal coding, but my sentence was rather awkward, wasn't it?
I was in a hurry to clear up the Dearborn post and used my phone . . .

Right fender has this format on the fender lip (I made up the day and month, but the shift info portion is as stamped):
1 20 3

Left fender has
2 3

The left fender is stamped/built the same day as the Ford actual build date as noted on my Marti report.
It does not have a shift stamp.

If you like I can PM the pics of the stamps (with the correct dates) to you personally.
Bill V.
3/2/1967 SJ GT350 and other fastbacks

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 05:15:25 PM »
Right fender has this format on the fender lip (I made up the day and month, but the shift info portion is as stamped):
1 20 3

Left fender has
2 3

The left fender is stamped/built the same day as the Ford actual build date as noted on my Marti report.
It does not have a shift stamp.

If you like I can PM the pics of the stamps (with the correct dates) to you personally.

Its likely better to go back and correct or strike through the incorrect information in our posts because some may read only that one post and not the correction posts that follow and in turn getting incorrect information

As for the one fender with only the two digits - I would believe that it was a poor stamping and its missing the month (in your case a 1) from the stamping.

In my thinking here are the reasons for that conclusion

- The fender could not be stamped the same day as the car was finished 

- Comparing your cars real build date to other cars finished the same day shows those examples with the same day of the month for the fender stamping (with shift identifier also) as yours suggesting that yours is missing the first digit

No need for pictures of the fender stampings - the information (dates) are what are important for the data collection but would be interested in what Shelby number the car is for filing of the info. Have a good idea of what the Ford VIN is within 100 or less I would guess  ;) There were at least two groups (orders) of 67 Shelbys being completed that day.

Thanks for sharing the dates
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 05:54:31 PM »
There should be a couple other date stamps on your fender. The housing spot-welded in around the headlight and the upright reinforcement back where the fender meets up to the door, to name a few
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Bossbill

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Re: 1967 GT 350 (Early 10/66) Inner Front Fender Finishing ?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »
I'm out of state right now getting these fenders dipped. Few places do this anymore. I want all traces of corrosion gone. Let's not sidetrack into that topic . . .

The stamp was very poor on the driver's side. Jeff's explanation makes sense. I don't have the headlight data with me, but will report back when I get the  fenders back next week.
Bill V.
3/2/1967 SJ GT350 and other fastbacks