Author Topic: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose  (Read 318 times)

Offline J_Speegle

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Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« on: August 17, 2017, 08:31:08 PM »
This came up on another forum the other day so I figured I should share and post here for the benefit of members and others watching now and in the future

Question was - Was the glove box hinge attached to the glove box door or the main dash when painted interior color for a 67 San Jose built Mustang/Shelby?

What we have found is that the glove box was installed/attached to the main dash when it was painted so the glove box, hinge, mounting hardware all got painted with the main dash. There are some periods (don't know why or have found a pattern yet) where one of the hinge to main dash bolts were not painted. Doesn't make allot of sense but just reporting what I'm finding. From looking at a number of 68's the pattern/practice appears to be the same as far as the glove box doors being installed when painted

Just one of many pictures illustrating this finding. In this case the painter didn't put out much effort to reach under the dash and cover all the exposed surfaces. This produced shadows on the example and the expected bare sections of the piano hinge used to attach the glove box door.  And yes some prior owner rattle canned with black spray paint the front/visible section of the heater :(


« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 08:38:25 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline OldMustangGuy

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2017, 02:24:29 AM »
Jeff-woukd this be consistent with other factories or is this a San Jose only process?

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 05:18:42 AM »
Jeff-woukd this be consistent with other factories or is this a San Jose only process?

I believe its possible that it applies to the other plants  but we'll see  as I'm looking at other plants and expanding out to 68 also in my stuff. Going to be difficult as not allot of people take pictures of the bottom of their dashes in that area for any purposes so examples will be few I would expect. Its also likely other members may have unrestored cars they have access to that can offer data points also.  Might take a while but at least we got the facts and the idea started
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Fastback2013

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 03:08:47 PM »
my glove box...
Makes sense that there is bare metal where the fixation screws are?
Kind regards,
Jeroen
San Jose 7R02C1708xx
Fastback GTA
built on 01/12/1967

Offline Bossbill

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 11:23:26 PM »
Adding to the discussion as I just happened to get to this area of the car on disassembly.
Car is a 1967 SJ Fastback, with a Ford serial number in the 180Ks.
The interior is black, hence charcoal metallic paint on the dash. I've owned the car for many decades and I don't believe this area of the car has been molested.
Also note that the following comments are how the surfaces or assembly appears from paint evidence.

Select any pic to be sent to my Flickr site. Click on the picture there to zoom.

The glove box is the correct color and I would venture to say it has about an 80% gloss and certainly has orange peel. There are no indications of a respray on the glove box or any portion of the dash.
[see my later post -- this door was re-sprayed]

Glove box front:


I purposely included a standard double 8' fluorescent above the glove box door to indicate relative gloss. It does not appear this shiny within the dark recesses of the black interior, pointing at the floor.
The center hole has indications of it being the only fastener used to initially hang the door.
The lock and chrome bezel have been removed.

The back side of the door:


The hinge was mounted on the bare steel door. As Jeff noted earlier, the fasteners were painted along with the hinge.
Inspect the paint on the top part of the hinge because here is where things get interesting.

Under dash:


The hinge and door were mounted to the underside of the bare steel dash. Notice the lack of a straight paint line under the dash.

Temporarily mounted up:


Here is how I think it worked.
The door is mounted to the dash using one or more of the hinge bolts, but left loose.
For my car on the center bolt -- for others, perhaps two or three. The weight of the door opens up the gap in the front.
The back of the door is misted with the charcoal metallic paint and some black is allowed to be sprayed on the hinge facing the underside and the under dash area to which the hinge mounts. This allows a small amount of paint on the hinge that will clamped to the dash and the curved line on my car (due to the center bolt being the only one installed when the back is sprayed).

The dash area behind the door:


As you can see in this pic, the area directly behind the door lip on the dash is the same color and gloss as the back of the door.

My best guess is that the door is installed loosely with no paint on any parts.
The back of the door, hinge, area in the dash hidden by the closed door and the underside of the dash in the area of the hinge is misted over. 
This might be when the vertical portion of the upper dash is misted over.

The door is closed and held there by the friction of the new hinges and adjusted.  The lock is not installed yet. Then the color coat is shot on the visible parts of the dash.

Later the glove box lock, chrome surround, rubber bumpers and light are installed.

Your comments?

« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 10:00:39 PM by Bossbill »
Bill
3/2/67 GT350
6/6/70 0T02G160xxx B302
5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 2+2

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 04:54:02 PM »
Thanks for showing what you found on your car. Not sure if its the condition or your particular car but can't recall every finding dash paint that I would call close to yours in the ability to reflect the light unless it was rubbed or cleaned allot


As for your findings - (to be clear) you only found one lower hinge mounting bolt painted?   Since we have all or some there seems to be a difference in findings. Not sure if this is a difference between shift (guy assigned that task on each shift) or time period related. 

What I find that might be a problem with the loose hinge theory is that the glove box door had to be painted inside then closed and remain in an up right position while it was painted again. With a loose hinge at the dash one would expect to find scratches from movement or uncovered bare steel )at hinge to dash or around the mounting bolts) on original cars as the worker adjusted the glove box door in the opening after the paint dried
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 10:29:29 AM »
Grabbed this shot from 8F01C170xxx
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 12:49:18 PM »
FYI while on the subject of interiors , the Gulf hurricanes this year have effected the price of paint. Apparently because that is where much is manufactured and it is petroleum product. I bought a pint of Wimbledon White yesterday and it was 125.00 at the PPG distributor. A friend that I was complaining to has a Mustang restoration shop told me he got sticker shock when he recently bought a gallon of the interior dark charcoal metallic because he does so many 67 up cars and it was 800.00 for the gallon!!! I don't know if that will change anytime soon. He also said if I had bought a can of red instead of white it might have been twice as much because of the pigment.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bossbill

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Re: Dash/Glove Box Paint Process - 67 San Jose
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 09:59:25 PM »
I'll go back and edit my response to indicate that my glovebox door appears to have been repainted.
My ashtray may also have been repainted -- the interior of the ashtray was also resprayed with a silver paint.
We found out about the glovebox door when I took the door to my painter to come up with a color match. He sanded through and found more than one layer.

But I was having a problem with the ashtray in any dash paint scenario. The ash tray could not have been in place during dash paint. See the ash tray rivet thread it's evident the ashtray front was painted prior to the zinc butt holder portion being riveted on. And the zinc ashtray frame on the dash could not have been installed either.
That means the ashtray front was painted outside of the dash time frame. Ok, so the whole ashtray assembly was not in the car during dashboard paint. How was it color matched to the dash paint?
Did an outside vendor make these and paint them with "stock paints"? Or painted at the same time as the other interior panels?

But I digress. On with the possible dash paint sequence and we'll get to that . . .
Instead of thinking "how was the dash painted" from a restoration point of view I tried thinking like a production planner and how Ford might set up the line. Here are some thoughts. . .

All of the interior panels could have gone to a spray area and been hung on a cart(s), like the 65/6 picture of the fenders, hood, stone deflector and valance. For a 67 fastback, as it had the most items to paint, you would have all of the rear fiberglass trim, rear metal trim, dash metal trim, rear trap door as well as the ash tray front (if not done by a vendor).
I suppose it's possible these were all outsourced and came in painted. But that makes me wonder about paint match, number of units in stock, damage, etc. I tend toward painted on site.

The next part relies on painters being painters and non-skilled workers doing grunt jobs.  . . . they don't do each other's jobs. It's not efficient. The non-skilled worker sets up the paint mask for the doors. He also brings in a totally bare glovebox door with attached hinges and loosely puts one or many screws into it on the bottom of the dash. He is not skilled and will not align the door. He then inserts a temporary catch device into the empty glovebox lock hole that has a catch (an L) on the other end. It would be spring steel so it would hold itself in the hole and act like a spring to engage the dash on the other end.

The car then trolleys to a updraft/sidedraft booth and the interior painter(s) enters the interior. For efficiency there would be a painter on both sides as we only have seconds to paint the door interiors and their half of the dash.
The passenger side painter first lightly sprays the dash area that ends up behind the closed glovebox door. He then sprays the back side of the glovebox door. Then he pushes the door up so it is mostly closed as the spring tool engages the back side of the dash. A final spray of the glovebox door and lower dash nets us the unpainted areas on the dash bottom as well as a now completely painted front/rear of the glovebox door. The painter on the other side meets the passenger painter in the middle.

Considering how these cars are trimmed out it's probable there is a trim area that does subtasks like assembling the many parts of the trap door, pop riveting ashtrays, putting deluxe trim on seat bottoms (thinking breakage, so the seat assembly would not have these installed) -- just general work to create larger assemblies out of smaller ones for eventual use on the line. I don't reject that these parts are made offsite by vendors, but again paint match enters my mind. Maybe they didn't care that much about paint match or figured out a way to ensure a proper match. I don't know.

Later, after electrical (and other stuff like headliner, HVAC) the interior line crew hangs a trimmed out trap door, inserts the complete ashtray assembly, hangs the interior fiberglass, etc. Finally the tool is removed from the glovebox door  and the glovebox light, plastic insert, rubber bumpers, latch on dash, push button latch and chrome ring are installed. It's here the door is actually aligned and all screws are tightened or installed.
It's also possible that before any HVAC or electrical work was done that the glovebox door (which was loose, right?) was put in a bag and hung somewhere inside to prevent damage as others rummaged around the interior. I can't see installing A/C with the door in the way.

Stuff likes this keeps me up at night!
Bill
3/2/67 GT350
6/6/70 0T02G160xxx B302
5/18/65 5F09A728xxx 2+2