ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: ceggar on February 23, 2017, 08:30:59 PM
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On a 67 390 with A/C does the top A/C mount, alternator adjusting bracket, and bottom alternator bracket all mount to the same hole on the water pump?No smog. Also I have a 8620M belt that doesnt come close to fitting.thanks
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Don't have that copy of the assembly manual or AC installation instructions that shows the mounting diagram for the AC. The top mounting hole and the inner adjustment arm for the alternator share the same bolt hole but with everything installed real hard to see (on a ac car) where that passenger side arm of the top brace/idler mount attaches exactly
Appears that some had the alternator mounted in the lower position (those assembled at San Jose) even without thermactor but guessing that is not the route your following and that would mean different mounting points for those cars
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On a 67 390 with A/C does the top A/C mount, alternator adjusting bracket, and bottom alternator bracket all mount to the same hole on the water pump?No smog. Also I have a 8620M belt that doesnt come close to fitting.thanks
No not the same hole and slightly different shaped adjusting bracket compared to the non air version.
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I see where the adjusting bracket mounts along with the a/c bracket, its the lower triangle bracket that wont line up with any other hole than where the adjusting/ac bracket is mounted. Is it possible that triangle bracket was not used with a/c?I have a c6ae-a and c6ae-b adjusting bracket. Is there a different one?Also a lower mount would be fine if some came that way. It originally had smog just not putting it on.Thanks
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I see where the adjusting bracket mounts along with the a/c bracket, its the lower triangle bracket that wont line up with any other hole than where the adjusting/ac bracket is mounted. Is it possible that triangle bracket was not used with a/c?I have a c6ae-a and c6ae-b adjusting bracket. Is there a different one?Also a lower mount would be fine if some came that way. It originally had smog just not putting it on.Thanks
Yes the triangle bracket is used . It is different however then the standard non thermactor triangle non A/C bracket. The correct A/C triangle bracket has the same bolt pattern and mounting as the thermactor bracket uses. Also the upper adjusting bracket is different too. The correct upper bracket has a small bend /dogleg at the bottom to compensate for the A/C bracket it is bolted on top of. Without the correct non thermactor adjusting arm for a top mount alternator the arm will be in a bind /twisted and things will not line up.
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I see where the adjusting bracket mounts along with the a/c bracket, its the lower triangle bracket that wont line up with any other hole than where the adjusting/ac bracket is mounted. Is it possible that triangle bracket was not used with a/c?.......................
IMHO its possible for a San Jose non Thermactor 390 to have been equipped with the larger dual mount (alternator and thermactor) plate and using the lower alternator mounting location with the standard (for thermactor 390) adjusting arm. Seeing and have seen may too many of these brackets on unrestored San Jose non-thermactor 67's
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IMHO its possible for a San Jose non Thermactor 390 to have been equipped with the larger dual mount (alternator and thermactor) plate and using the lower alternator mounting location with the standard (for thermactor 390) adjusting arm. Seeing and have seen may too many of these brackets on unrestored San Jose non-thermactor 67's
I can only speak of my observations of the non thermactor ,A/C 67 GT500's . I have one in my shop at this moment. In those cases the thermactor bracket was not used on a non thermactor car. Since a different non thermactor A/C triangle bracket is available and used on the GT500 engine and most likely other applications I am surprised to read reports of the brackets thermactor bracket and lower mounting being used on non thermactor 390 Mustangs. I agree it is possible.
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Ok the triangle bracket I have is C5TE-10156-A which only lines up with the hole that the adjusting bracket and a/c mount is bolted to. It looks like the C6AE-B is the right adjusting bracket.Bob do you have the number for the correct triangle bracket and/or know where to find one? If not I will have to go with the low mount as I have all the smog stuff.
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Ok the triangle bracket I have is C5TE-10156-A which only lines up with the hole that the adjusting bracket and a/c mount is bolted to. It looks like the C6AE-B is the right adjusting bracket.Bob do you have the number for the correct triangle bracket and/or know where to find one? If not I will have to go with the low mount as I have all the smog stuff.
I am sorry but it is on the car and a engineering number is not visible in the paint.
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I believe those are the right brackets you have, C5TE-10156-A and C6AE-B. I can get pictures of mounting position Monday
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I believe those are the right brackets you have, C5TE-10156-A and C6AE-B. I can get pictures of mounting position Monday
I don't think so. As the picture shows only two items bolt to the upper bolt hole . That would be the alt adjusting bracket and the A/C compressor upper bracket. Notice the small bend in the adjusting arm at the attachment point to compensate for the A/C bracket. You can see that the A/C triangle bracket bolt pattern is different when compared to the more common non A/C bracket because of the mounting points. It is tight in there so the pictures are of the only vantage point i could get to easily .
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So it looks like i have the correct adjusting bracket according to the picture which would be a C6AE-B. The bottom triangle bracket has to have a wider bolt pattern and a deeper shape at the top then the C5TE-10156-A in able to bolt to one of the 2 remaining water pump holes because the upper hole is recessed in.
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I'm in the same position as Ceggar. Very interested in the outcome.
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So it looks like i have the correct adjusting bracket according to the picture which would be a C6AE-B. The bottom triangle bracket has to have a wider bolt pattern and a deeper shape at the top then the C5TE-10156-A in able to bolt to one of the 2 remaining water pump holes because the upper hole is recessed in.
I found a C6AE-B adjusting bracket and I can confirm it is the correct one . That leaves the triangle to complete the installation with A/C.
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it looks like it should be similar to a C8AE-10156-B
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IMHO its possible for a San Jose non Thermactor 390 to have been equipped with the larger dual mount (alternator and thermactor) plate and using the lower alternator mounting location with the standard (for thermactor 390) adjusting arm. Seeing and have seen may too many of these brackets on unrestored San Jose non-thermactor 67's
Jeff, is it possible that all those cars were air conditioned??
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Have found one possible answer about the mystery triangular mounting bracket hidden on Bob's GT500 pictures. there is a 63, 64 Tbird bracket, C3SE-10156-B, very similar to the C8AE-10156-B, but with no numbers stamped on it. Could be that one.
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Jeff, is it possible that all those cars were air conditioned??
no
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Please be easy on me, I hate even posing this question with my limited knowledge. How is the conclusion drawn that if it has AC and no smog, the alternator is typically mounted in the higher location? :-[ Based on page 77 and 85 of the Osborn engine manual, it looks to be in the lower position. I know the manuals aren't always accurate, but it just seems strange that no one can seem to locate the numbers and brackets for a non-smog AC car. They can't be that rare.
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Jeff, thanks for the definite answer, I'll rule out the A/C being a deciding factor.
67gt390fb, thanks for your effort researching this. It appears that the C3SE-10156-B can be used in either a high or low mount application with just a different adjusting arm.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/21142/message/1154357446/Master+Cylinder+And+ALT+Conversion
If Bob could confirm, at his leisure, that there is indeed no markings on the brackets he sees, it would go a long way towards solving this issue.
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Jeff, thanks for the definite answer, I'll rule out the A/C being a deciding factor.
67gt390fb, thanks for your effort researching this. It appears that the C3SE-10156-B can be used in either a high or low mount application with just a different adjusting arm.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/21142/message/1154357446/Master+Cylinder+And+ALT+Conversion
If Bob could confirm, at his leisure, that there is indeed no markings on the brackets he sees, it would go a long way towards solving this issue.
This is the most I can do for now. The car is sold and going to the UK in the next week or so with too many projects in front of this request to disassemble and reassemble before it leaves.If I come across another bracket I will be sure to share.
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Thanks Bob, I really didn't expect you to disassemble the alt to find out.
Any time you have one in your hands in the future is all I was hoping for.
Thanks again
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I located a T-Bird bracket which I guess is numbered C3SE-10156-B(the bracket is not stamped)and it worked. I have also seen on E-Bay a C8AE-10156-B that is the same bracket. Not sure if they used the T-Bird bracket all the way up to 68 or there is a part number in between. Thanks for everybody's help.
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Here are some pictures of a Dearborn S code with AC and with out thermactor built 2-15-67.
Marty
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I ended up sourcing the same bracket that Ceggar did.
Looks like the pics Marty posted.
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Marty-
I suspect the car is now long gone. I don’t suppose you were able to verify a stamped number on the lower bracket?
I did come across this car that was restored in 1979 and believed to be original and unmolested prior to that.
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I did come across this car that was restored in 1979 and believed to be original and unmolested prior to that.
Guess the pictures and comment beg for a follow up question. What makes you believe that the car was unmolested prior to 1979??
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That was the claim of the owner, who’s family owned it and did the “restoration” back in 1979.
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That was the claim of the owner, who’s family owned it and did the “restoration” back in 1979.
Well they didn't retain a lot of what they saw. Given the mistakes made on detailing the creditability of the statement is in question IMO.
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I didn’t ask if they were trying for a Concours restoration. I believe the term the owner used was “freshened it up”. I suspect the wealth of knowledge today is a bit more than it was 29 years ago, but I can see your point.
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Marty-
I suspect the car is now long gone. I don’t suppose you were able to verify a stamped number on the lower bracket?
I did come across this car that was restored in 1979 and believed to be original and unmolested prior to that.
I still work on the car from time to time. I will try to check next time I see it.
Marty