ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: markb0729 on March 09, 2017, 01:08:38 PM
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I was thumbing through on of the Osborn assembly manuals for my 65 Fastback and noticed that one of the diagrams shows grommets around the heater hoses where they enter the firewall. Would this be something you would see on a September 64, Dearborn built Fastback without A/C? I've never seen grommets on the heater hoses of any 64 1/2 through 66 Mustang. I figured the sealer sprayed on the firewall was in part used for sealing the heater hoses.
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I was thumbing through on of the Osborn assembly manuals for my 65 Fastback
Which book and page are you looking at? There should be no grommets used. Calking or sealant, yes.
Jim
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Which book and page are you looking at? There should be no grommets used. Calking or sealant, yes.
Jim
That's what I thought. I don't have the manual with me. I'll get back to you this evening.
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Believe the assembly line at Dearborn used dum-dum (sort of like the fender to inner fender panel sealant and gas tank to floor cord) but will double check and post a picture if I've got one. Not sure about specifically Sept but will see what I have. Good chance that this may be another difference between the plan and what was done
Seals as you describe were used on much later Mustangs
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Reporting back and first must report that rarely are original heater hoses still in place after all these years. Also few pictures, of the period were taken of this part of the car - at least ones I've found. With that said I did find a couple of early Dearborn (not real early ;) examples that appear to have something.
First example is much later - and real hard to tell what it is. Guessing may be just dumdum formed into a seal
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-100317004441-6821654.jpeg)
This example is from the prior month. Difficult to tell the dumdum from what appears to be a round grommet but maybe some of the early guys have their own observations
Thanks for the great pictures Mike :)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-100317004438-68191975.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-100317004440-68201183.jpeg)
Odd thing IMHO is that if the lower hose had a rubber formed seal installed how did the lumps of sound deadener get between it and the firewall. Unless it fell or slide out of the way? Or is the top just dumdum shaped into the seal and what we are seeing is an old delicate edge formed and exposed when the hose angled down once disattached from the sealant
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Thanks for the info and pictures Jeff. Very interesting. The 1965 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual (Jim Osborn manual #AM0008), page 23 corroborates the existence of your findings that some sort of grommet or sealing material was used where the heater hoses enter the firewall. I don't see a part number listed on the page for grommets or sealing material. The "2" call out in the diagram just refers you to another page to see the continuation of the heater hoses.
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Thanks for the info and pictures Jeff. Very interesting. The 1965 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual (Jim Osborn manual #AM0008), page 23 corroborates the existence of your findings that some sort of grommet or sealing material was used where the heater hoses enter the firewall. ................
Hopefully some other members that have spent more time with more original early Dearborn cars will offer up their observations. Have seen Dearborn cars with some form of sealer much smaller than the ones posted in the pictures so believe that the drawings are not what was done at all plants for all time periods. But the pictures may get the conversation going ;)
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I haven't ever found grommets used, only strip caulking wrapped around the hoses at the firewall and then spray sealant over the top. Varies from plant to plant, pretty consistent at Dearborn though.
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Charles and Jeff you hit the nail on the head. The Jim Osborn1965 Mustang body assembly manual AM0006, page 15 has the information. The heater hoses were wrapped with strip caulking at the firewall, part number ESB-M4G32-A then spray adhesive (sealant), part number ESB-M2G43-A. The strip caulking is available from NPD (AMK product), part number 904-4 or Summit (Scott Drake product), part number SDK-ESB-M4G32-A.
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You want black caulk. I believe the AMK stuff is gray.
Recent discussions were had around the quality of the current 3M strip caulk. Most I am seeing are a sticky butyl type material, not like original. If the AMK stuff came in black, it would be perfect.
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Good to know. Thanks.
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Recent discussions were had around the quality of the current 3M strip caulk. Most I am seeing are a sticky butyl type material, not like original. ......
Guess we need to rush out and buy what we can find of the older product possibly still on shelves.
Picture of the Scott Drake product above does appear to have much or of a shine to the surface than the 3M stuff we're use to using
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Charles and Jeff you hit the nail on the head. The Jim Osborn1965 Mustang body assembly manual AM0006, page 15 has the information. The heater hoses were wrapped with strip caulking at the firewall, part number ESB-M4G32-A then spray adhesive (sealant), part number ESB-M2G43-A. The strip caulking is available from NPD (AMK product), part number 904-1 or Summit (Scott Drake product), part number SDK-ESB-M4G32-A.
I think the NPD part number is 903-4 for the AMK grey type and 903-1 for the 3M black type;)
Eastwood also have some #13524
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I think the NPD part number is 903-4 for the AMK grey type and 903-1 for the 3M black type;)
You are correct. NPD part number 903-1 is for the 3M Black Strip Caulk. I fixed my post above and put in the correct part number, 903-4 for the AMK gray.
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The 3M strip caulk is so sticky it would make an Octopus jealous. It has been that way as long as I can remember. I have some at home that dates back to 2000 and it is just as tacky as the newest boxes on the shelves. The AMK gray caulk is not very tacky at all.
For reference: black 3M on top and gray AMK on the bottom.
Regards,
Scott
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I found some old-school 3M strip caulk years back. It's dried out a bit, but with a heat gun, it softens up and works well. About the closest I have seen to the calk used at the assembly plant.
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Let me give some clarity to this topic. I called 3M and talked to a rep. This is her reply:
From: xxx
To: xxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:05 PM
Subject: Strip Calk
Hi Jim,
I spoke to the lab, and the composition of the product has not been changed since 2004. It is part butyl, part synthetic rubber.
I have attached the technical data sheet in case you would like to see it.
Please let me know if you have any more questions.
Sincerely,
Ashley Product Application Support Representative
Business Services Operations
ISCA Customer Service Certified
3M Product Application Support Center
583-05-01 | Woodbury, MN 55125
| www.3m.com
Business Services Operations
The power of you.
go.3M.com/BSO
Simple put, 3M Strip Calk 051135-08578 (Black) is still available. No need to stock up. Its formula has not changed. If you want this particular calk, verify the manufactures identification number. Don't order any other product. It's also know as "rope calk" because of its form.
Jim
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Guess I need to give out my last box and stop by the paint shop tomorrow. Have been purchasing a non 3M version that I've been happy with. Once I find that product will post pictures and part numbers for those that want to order that product.
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Discussion about Strip Caulk here:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15605.0
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Just curious if the caulk has been found on San Jose cars in late 64? Jeff do you have any reference pics on that plant at that time? I know you saw some material in between the hood and hinges on that honey gold car you looked at a couple of years ago.
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Just curious if the caulk has been found on San Jose cars in late 64? Jeff do you have any reference pics on that plant at that time?
Yes have pictures and no don't believe any was applied or used by that point in the first year of production. A quick look suggests that the use stopped just prior to 5R19xxxxxx - first week of July or so of 64.
I know you saw some material in between the hood and hinges on that honey gold car you looked at a couple of years ago.
Yes but different material and different application. Depending on the period can be found between hood hinges and inner fender panels or hood hinges and hood.
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Here is one i found at an MCA event a few years ago a very early SJ car i have the VIN if you want it
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Here is one i found at an MCA event a few years ago a very early SJ car i have the VIN if you want it
Its a restored car so no telling what is original and what isn't at this point especially based on some detail that appear in the pictures. I would guess that it had been restored in the eastern US
And a very early car wouldn't be the same as an Oct 64 car
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Here is one i found at an MCA event a few years ago a very early SJ car i have the VIN if you want it
In the second picture, the upper "grommet" looks like it's a sealing ring made of caulk smoothed out. There are depressions that appear to have been fingertip related and the ring is recessed, not bulged out like a grommet would be. The smoothing can be done with a finger dabbed in water. The lower "grommet" also looks like caulk although not as smooth. With 400X magnification, you can see where the hose has pulled away from the material.
Jim