Author Topic: Which black ?  (Read 1436 times)

Offline stangnet33

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Which black ?
« on: October 13, 2016, 02:13:07 PM »
While researching for what would be the correct black for my '69 Mach engine bay and under carriage I have come across couple of threads that discuss different blacks from PPG - DDL 9423 and DAR 9000. A little confused on which is which. I'd like to get a couple of quarts as it seems that both are discontinued - ?

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 11:46:02 PM »
While researching for what would be the correct black for my '69 Mach engine bay and under carriage

There isn't a "correct" black but instead products owners and shops have successfully found reproduces a finish in the range of acceptably  I think that is what you will find in the post - sort of "here is what worked for me" sort of sharing. As mentioned over and over again. Allot depends on what you can purchase in your region and what your painter is willing to use (read illegal or legal products)



I have come across couple of threads that discuss different blacks from PPG - DDL 9423 and DAR 9000. A little confused on which is which. I'd like to get a couple of quarts as it seems that both are discontinued - ?


May depend on the dealer and how much they want to work. Haven't tried recently to order any - not currently legal in my area anyway.

Products were available as recently as May of this year - guess you saw and read this related thread - appears to be the most recent

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13601.msg83972#msg83972
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Raven R Code

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2016, 09:03:37 PM »
Yeah.....not sure why we seem to still have confusion. At this stage of the game shouldn't there be a part number for "concourse correct" engine compartment paint......and while on the subject, black out hood paint for '69 Mach 1's.

My car is ready for both of these questions to be cleared up. I know there have been great points made by Jeff and Bob (and a few others) but can we agree on what's right with current available products? I just need a part number to go on. But I know there may also be a few good options too.  So...hopefully my final questions on the subject.....

1. I understand lacquer paint never really dries and may be hard to keep clean.

2. Sheen: I know Krylon 1613 is the most correct but is lacquer and a rattlecan (it can still be had under a new number).

3. I have a new can of Ditzler DDL 9423. Haven't sprayed it yet so I don't know about the sheen. I'm pretty sure it is single stage though. Any feedback on durability?

4. On a Raven black car, flatness of hood paint is very important to me. I've heard the following being used: KBS coatings flat black, SEMS hot rod black (not sure if it is satin or flat) and DDL 9423.not sure if I'm missing any others for comparison purposes.

Maybe we can have a discussion on pros and cons of each. Durability and correct color/sheen are very important to me.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

~ Do it concours or don't do it.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2016, 12:10:33 AM »
3. I have a new can of Ditzler DDL 9423. Haven't sprayed it yet so I don't know about the sheen. I'm pretty sure it is single stage though. Any feedback on durability?

Held up well on original paint cars for many many years. Never had a complaint about my car and durability. Did better than the rest of the paint



4. On a Raven black car, flatness of hood paint is very important to me. I've heard the following being used: KBS coatings flat black, SEMS hot rod black (not sure if it is satin or flat) and DDL 9423.not sure if I'm missing any others for comparison purposes.


Only can compare Hot Rod Black and DDL #9423 since those are the only two I've current have on a car.  Of course a good part of the outcome comes from how its sprayed, the conditions as well as the product. The Hot rod black has no texture and is slightly less (in comparison) IMHO black black - if that makes any sense and there is no trace of texture nor surface feel or look in the final product when compared to the #9423
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Raven R Code

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2016, 12:33:27 AM »
Only can compare Hot Rod Black and DDL #9423 since those are the only two I've current have on a car.  Of course a good part of the outcome comes from how its sprayed, the conditions as well as the product. The Hot rod black has no texture and is slightly less (in comparison) IMHO black black - if that makes any sense and there is no trace of texture nor surface feel or look in the final product when compared to the #9423

So Jeff, are you saying #9423 can be hood paint and engine compartment paint? Which of the 2 hood paints looked the best and which one can get the flatter sheen?

 Then another question comes up....color for the shaker scoop?
Dave

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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 05:02:41 PM »
So Jeff, are you saying #9423 can be hood paint and engine compartment paint? Which of the 2 hood paints looked the best and which one can get the flatter sheen?

Not what I meant to say at all. Thought we were comparing hood paint but your questions have sort of mixed the two (engine compartment and hood) in the same discussions

"At this stage of the game shouldn't there be a part number for "concourse correct" engine compartment paint......and while on the subject, black out hood paint for '69 Mach 1's. "

So at this stage in the game there are part numbers for paint but the are different due to what is legal and available in your area/region. Add to this the painters preference  and experience in certain products. Due to this you get different recommendations depending on who you ask.

On my last 69 we used #9423 for the exterior black outs like originally done and Hot Rod Black since it was legal to shoot in my area and what the painter had experience (had seen the finished look on many of the cars done there) in using

Others will have other suggestions especially if they are not located in the US
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline stangnet33

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 07:59:35 PM »
My thread question was just in regards to the engine compartment and under carriage.

This is so true and frustrating :

"At this stage of the game shouldn't there be a part number for "concourse correct" engine compartment paint......and while on the subject, black out hood paint for '69 Mach 1's. "

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 09:22:49 PM »
Yeah.....not sure why we seem to still have confusion. At this stage of the game shouldn't there be a part number for "concourse correct" engine compartment paint.
It is not for lack of research on the subject. Bottom line is there are too many variables between usage conditions,plants etc. that result in a range of sheen to have a definitive one "part number" fits all and any others are wrong.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Raven R Code

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2016, 12:36:25 PM »
Bob....I guess that's part of what I'm getting at. I know there are different sheens for different plants and mfg dates....but only one will work or be correct for each year/plant. Couldn't we along with the resources on the site come up with different paint part numbers that would for best possible correctness of paints? Paint is such a critical part of a restoration and I think it should be better documented. I for one will be collecting data for '69 cars (at least as much as possible).  It would be nice to look at a spreadsheet.....find the part you want to paint....and see the color/sheen option  and the plant ID associated with it.
Dave

~ Do it concours or don't do it.

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2016, 02:43:27 PM »
Bob....I guess that's part of what I'm getting at. I know there are different sheens for different plants and mfg dates....but only one will work or be correct for each year/plant. Couldn't we along with the resources on the site come up with different paint part numbers that would for best possible correctness of paints? Paint is such a critical part of a restoration and I think it should be better documented. I for one will be collecting data for '69 cars (at least as much as possible).  It would be nice to look at a spreadsheet.....find the part you want to paint....and see the color/sheen option  and the plant ID associated with it.

Dave,
This is Richard, not Bob but I'm still hunting for that "perfect world"...55 years later & no luck yet ;D  ;)
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Which black ?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2016, 10:26:35 PM »
Bob....I guess that's part of what I'm getting at. I know there are different sheens for different plants and mfg dates....but only one will work or be correct for each year/plant. .............

Have respectfully disagree.

In many processes that go into restoring a car some things are not exact but fall within a acceptable or expected range based on documentation and study. Things like sound deadener pattern, thickness, sealer application, paint and other details that varied due to worker effort, height, age, time, angle or supply all fall into that category when I build or judge a car.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)