Author Topic: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?  (Read 2336 times)

Offline amishtechnology

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ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« on: December 10, 2016, 09:40:38 PM »
I have a Carter fuel pump. Casting 3974-S. Date code 2LSA. Button top. No canister.

The MustangTek web site shows images (http://www.mustangtek.com/fuelpump/M3974.html) but has a question mark for original application.

Any knowledge about where these particular castings were originally used?



Offline J_Speegle

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 10:34:45 PM »
The change over to the CARTER casting was very late 1967 so for the second half of 68 production period based on a couple of NOS ones found that had the box stenciled dated not the date the box was made ;).

It and the CARburaTER casting style continued also for a while  to be used for non high performance, 6 cylinders and small blocks also


Looks like your example is possible a 1972 produced one.

Will look through the books but there are allot of different numbers through the years used though the start of the number suggests that its first usage/application was possible in 1965

Follow up - Looked through my stuff and could not find anything. May be for a non Ford product since Carter made pumps for other cars also. Too bad the link didn't include the stocking number. Often they also included (if they fit Fords products) would have the Ford part number also stamped on the end of the box.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 10:39:39 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline amishtechnology

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 10:40:06 PM »
Thanks Jeff. I mistyped the date code. Should read 2L5A. Made me wonder if that was 2 November of 1965.

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 10:46:51 PM »
I have a Carter fuel pump. Casting 3974-S. Date code 2LSA. Button top. No canister.

The MustangTek web site shows images (http://www.mustangtek.com/fuelpump/M3974.html) but has a question mark for original application.

Any knowledge about where these particular castings were originally used?
Some how they got pictures I used on a ebay ad because I recognize the part,box and the workout mat I laid it on. Disregarding the flange number the 3/8 inlet identify it for use starting from 1968 production .The pump arm indicatesit is for a small block 289,302 or 351W.The button top was a common assemblyline style used 65-70 Mustang. All the small block fuelpumps move the same amount of fuel and use the same internal components. A later date code on yours 72? Would mean a later service part. FYI date coded parts are nice to have but not necessary for all but the strictest concours classes.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2016, 11:04:55 PM »
This is an odd fuel pump. I have one of these but it only fits 1 specific application. 1965 Ford large car(galaxie) 289 2V w/o integral filter. I seem to remember something about frame rail clearance, you will notice that the pump is actually about 1 inch shorter than other 66+ style fuel pumps. To my knowledge this is the only Carter crimp together pump used in 65 w/o an integral filter.

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2016, 11:08:39 PM »
If you look closely at the pics from mustangtek their pump has a 5/16 inlet not a 3/8. The pic also shows the CARTER casting which means this was a service replacement.

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2016, 11:20:33 PM »
My old Carter fuel pump catalog shows the Ford part number as C5AE-9350-D

Offline amishtechnology

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2016, 11:27:45 PM »
My version has the CARbureTER logo.

How are the dates decoded for these pumps?

And what do I look at re the lever for a clue about it being for a small block vs big block?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 11:36:20 PM by amishtechnology »

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2016, 11:35:44 PM »
My pump as well has CARbureTER casting. Big question now is what do you do with it? Maybe use it on a 66 or 67 with p/s, would be hard to pick out the difference there.

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2016, 11:44:30 PM »
If you look closely at the pics from mustangtek their pump has a 5/16 inlet not a 3/8. The pic also shows the CARTER casting which means this was a service replacement.
I have to disagree . You must not have looked too closely yourself because the inlet is 3/8 and not 5/16. I know because it was my pump in the picture as I stated ;) and because I know the difference just by looking at the inlet from the pictures. Once you compare enough pump cores trying to weed out the 3/8 from the 5/16  to have rebuilt they obviously look different. You are mis informed on the Carter marking also . You will find that the " made in USA" fuelpumps are typically marked Carter and the "made in Canada" fuel pumps are typically marked CAR bure TER . The Carter marked "made in USA"  small block pumps started to be used predominately on Mustangs starting typically in 1968. It just so happens through attrition that the Carter marked pumps are the only ones in service stock now. Not so much in the late 60's when both were prevalent. Regardless of the flange number the small block pumps move the same amount of fuel . You can verify with Fred who rebuilds the button top pumps for all of us that they all use the same SB arm,internal spring and diaphragm.  The same internals = the same output. The pump in the mustangtek picture regardless of flange number or corresponding application works on any year Mustang 66-70 smalblock but is most correct on 68 and up given the 3/8 inlet. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 12:05:47 AM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline amishtechnology

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2016, 11:50:16 PM »
Cleaning it up a bit more and under brighter lights, it appears the date code may read 22L6A. And adjacent to the CARbureTER mark it says "MADE IN U.S.A." FWIW.

I'm sorry I am not able to post a pic of my pump, but I am grateful for the discussion and suggestions.

I plan to ask Fred for his POV as you suggested, Bob.

Thanks again, all.

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2016, 11:52:59 PM »
Date codes for CARTER fuel pumps 2L5A
                    2 day
                    L  month (A Jan and so on)
                    5  last year or decade (5 1965, 1975 so on) 
                    A most likely shift at Carter plant

  Pic is of 3 most popular Carter fuel pump arms for Ford engines you will likely find. Top FE(390,427,428) middle 289 302 351w, bottom 292 312

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2016, 12:02:13 AM »
 
My old Carter fuel pump catalog shows the Ford part number as C5AE-9350-D
I went back in my parts room and low and behold I still have the Carter box from the picture. Printed on the side of the box is printed M3974 for FORD C5AZ-9350-A  . FYI these Carter boxed pumps were sold at the auto parts store which could explain some inconsistencies.  I believe Ford service pumps were in  box's with Ford AUTOLITE trademarks.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2016, 12:07:13 AM »
I also have been rebuilding these pumps for over 15 years. Fred does them as well but from what he has told me he in in no way involved in the actual rebuilding of the internals, just refinishing the plating, sandblasting and phosphating the arms, unless something has changed another company he knows of sources the new parts and does the disassembly, internal rebuilding , and reassembly. I agree Bob the the internals are all the same and this pump will fit and function on any 289/302, if you change the arm it will work on a 390 or even 460. But the pump in the mustangtek pic looks to me as a 5/16 inlet. I currently have around 75 button top fuel pumps and the vast majority of them cast CARbureTER say made in USA, but I do have a few cast made in Canada, but I cannot remember ever seeing a Canada pump cast Carter but I am sure they are out there. I can only comment on what I have seen in the 400-500 or so I have redone, Fred would most likely have seen a much larger number.

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2016, 12:22:07 AM »
I have a Carter fuel pump. Casting 3974-S. Date code 2LSA. Button top. No canister.

The MustangTek web site shows images (http://www.mustangtek.com/fuelpump/M3974.html) but has a question mark for original application.

Any knowledge about where these particular castings were originally used?
Your initial post asked when the casting was used . I now get a sense that you are trying to determine a appropriate historical correct pump for your car. It would be best in the future to include that information for the most precise answer. I remember you asking about a sender for a 66 so assume that is what you are working on. The button top CAR bure TER marked pump with the 5/16 inlet is what you are looking for .   These are the characteristics that are looked for in concours judging . Date codes and flange numbers are secondary because they are irreverent in all but the most strict concours class .It sounds like you have a appropriate pump from your description.   If you need a pump restored Fred Ballard is who does them for me.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby