Author Topic: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?  (Read 756 times)

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2016, 12:34:19 AM »
I found my pump and it is a service replacement in a Carter box just like i the pics from mustangtek.  I was wrong my pump is cast CARTER just as the pic, Bob is correct about the Ford part number. Ford # really is C5AZ-9350-A according to the carter box, don't know why my fuel pump catalog shows wrong info.
Bob, I have never heard of the association between CARbureTER/CARTER castings and there country of origin. This is very interesting, about how many pumps have you looked at before you saw this trend in casting to country?

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2016, 12:40:29 AM »
I also have been rebuilding these pumps for over 15 years. Fred does them as well but from what he has told me he in in no way involved in the actual rebuilding of the internals, just refinishing the plating, sandblasting and phosphating the arms, unless something has changed another company he knows of sources the new parts and does the disassembly, internal rebuilding , and reassembly. I agree Bob the the internals are all the same and this pump will fit and function on any 289/302, if you change the arm it will work on a 390 or even 460. But the pump in the mustangtek pic looks to me as a 5/16 inlet. I currently have around 75 button top fuel pumps and the vast majority of them cast CARbureTER say made in USA, but I do have a few cast made in Canada, but I cannot remember ever seeing a Canada pump cast Carter but I am sure they are out there. I can only comment on what I have seen in the 400-500 or so I have redone, Fred would most likely have seen a much larger number.
I believe Fred told me if I remember correctly that he has the pump bodies uncrimped by the company and does the cleanup of the diecast and  re Zinc Dichromate of the sheetmetal halfs on his end before taking the separated parts back for re assembly at the company he uses for that. I have a very high confidence level that the pump in the mustang tek pictures is in fact 3/8 for all of the reasons I mentioned. I assumed it was some kind of generic variant. The 3/8 inlet was why I had no use for it . I have enough Carter marked 3/8 pumps for use with 302/351 engines . They are not very popular .  I understand and agree on the USA vs Canada which is why I was very careful to use the word "typically" to cover that very small percentage that is otherwise  ;).  I am glad to hear others that are sticking with rebuilding the crimp together pumps. Best of luck with your endeavor. 
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2016, 12:44:13 AM »
I found my pump and it is a service replacement in a Carter box just like i the pics from mustangtek.  I was wrong my pump is cast CARTER just as the pic, Bob is correct about the Ford part number. Ford # really is C5AZ-9350-A according to the carter box, don't know why my fuel pump catalog shows wrong info.
Bob, I have never heard of the association between CARbureTER/CARTER castings and there country of origin. This is very interesting, about how many pumps have you looked at before you saw this trend in casting to country?
I have no idea but not near 400-500. If I were to guess more like 200. I just started to see a pattern . A blind squirrel finds a nut yada yada.  ;D
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2016, 12:49:10 AM »
I do the entire fuel pump rebuild myself, with the exception of the yellow dichromate plate for the bottom. I havbe found I can control the quality of the end product better. Fred told me early on the issues he had with the rebuilder carelessly tearing apart the pump and recrimping, that the first bunch looked awful. Pics of a pump I did a while ago. I have tried to minumize the opening of the crimp so as to not stretch and distort everything.
I really don't have a lot of spare time to do much of this anymore as it is very labor intensive to do everything by hand.

Offline amishtechnology

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2016, 12:52:57 AM »
Thanks, Bob. I'm sure I can use this pump for one of my builds or give it to a friend, but if it's special I don't want to just slap it on some random car. I'd rather give it a proper home in that case. That's why I didn't mention any of my cars in this post -- I was just generally puzzled about this pump and knew I'd get some robust ideas here about how it might have been used originally.

Since you mentioned it: The '66 project I discussed in another post the other day (good memory, by the way!) is a k-code so I'm guessing this pump isn't correct in that case?


« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 01:18:50 AM by Bob Gaines »

Offline amishtechnology

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2016, 12:55:03 AM »
Looks like very nice work 429Scott. Cool to see.

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2016, 01:00:54 AM »
I do the entire fuel pump rebuild myself, with the exception of the yellow dichromate plate for the bottom. I havbe found I can control the quality of the end product better. Fred told me early on the issues he had with the rebuilder carelessly tearing apart the pump and recrimping, that the first bunch looked awful. Pics of a pump I did a while ago. I have tried to minumize the opening of the crimp so as to not stretch and distort everything.
I really don't have a lot of spare time to do much of this anymore as it is very labor intensive to do everything by hand.
The work on the crimps looks extremly good. Please take this in the positive way it is meant-don't do anymore carter 5/16 pumps given the labor involved unless you have a special reason. The CAR bure TER 5/16 versions are the ones that people are looking for . That CAR bure TER style is the typical assemblyline marking.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2016, 01:17:39 AM »
Thank you for the compliments! I understand what you mean about how scarce the 5/16 inlet bottoms are. I made these pumps as an economy driver pump for a few friends, this pump does not have a 100% correct integral filter bottom. Believe it or not but this pump is made with brand new 6 cyl bottoms recrimped onto a button top casting, they came out pretty good and I did not have to replate original 65 bottoms!

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2016, 01:19:29 AM »
Thanks, Bob. I'm sure I can use this pump for one of my builds or give it to a friend, but if it's special I don't want to just slap it on some random car. I'd rather give it a proper home in that case. That's why I didn't mention any of my cars in this post -- I was just generally puzzled about this pump and knew I'd get some robust ideas here about how it might have been used originally.

Since you mentioned it: The '66 project I discussed in another post the other day (good memory, by the way!) is a k-code so I'm guessing this pump isn't correct in that case?
Yes and No. As mention before the button top ,CAR bure TER  marked ,5/16 inlet is the most important aspect. The 66 hipo pump had the flange number 4201 in 1/8 numbers. the hipo pump had a extra spring that was supposed to help with keeping the pump arm stable at 6,000 rpm + operation. The problem was that it was not uncommon to find that extra spring in the bottom of the oil pan. Not a good thing.Once installed extra spring or not it is impossible to tell or see. The small flange numbers are very hard to distinguish once the pump is mounted and as mentioned before is not something that is looked for in concours judging unless in the hardest class where no reproduction parts and everything has to be date correct. The 4201 hipo pump once restored typically sells for 1200-2200.00 if you can even find one to buy. Add to that trying to find one that is date code relevant to your build. To me if you are going to all that trouble for the genuine pump it better be dated correct too or not do it . But that is just me.  So armed with that information hopefully you can make a decision that is best for your situation. You can run with a concours correct, look a like pump (button top,CAR bure TER ,5/16)  or the same thing with the extra spring ,flange number and date. Oh and lest we not forget cost.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2016, 01:30:51 AM »
Thank you for the compliments! I understand what you mean about how scarce the 5/16 inlet bottoms are. I made these pumps as an economy driver pump for a few friends, this pump does not have a 100% correct integral filter bottom. Believe it or not but this pump is made with brand new 6 cyl bottoms recrimped onto a button top casting, they came out pretty good and I did not have to replate original 65 bottoms!
First time for me. I picked up some NOS 6cyl ones cheap at the recent Columbus swap meet for just that reason. I have some ready to go to Fred as substitutes for beat up 289 ones.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2016, 01:40:13 AM »
Good thinkin! The 6 cyl bottoms work like a charm! Internally the valves are the same but since the pull rod tower on the 6 cyl top is shorter you will need to use the longer V8 diaphragm assembly. Unless you look real hard the bottoms look correct once installed on the engine.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2016, 02:27:12 AM »
amishtechnology  - Sorry for the initial date screw up knew it (got it right in the date coding article in the Library ::) but wrote it incorrectly :-[. And the link you posted got the thread way off and down a rabbit hole with the box and casting details that didn't relate to your question.

Scott - nice job especially the crimping. Have you converted big block to small block crimp style. Years ago I found three cases of the Cater zip boxes one for each engine sizes mix of CARburaTer and CARTER pumps of course CARburaTER small blocks were the quick sellers but have thought a few times about converting some of the big block ones with a change of the arm.  Just asking since we seem to have figured out the OPs pump issue ;)
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 429scott

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Re: ID this Carter Fuel Pump?
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2016, 10:25:43 AM »
Jeff,
   Yes have converted fe pumps with  289 pump arms. If you have extra 289 pump arms its not that difficult to do, the pump arm style dictates where the spring goes (under arm or under button)