Author Topic: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National  (Read 3822 times)

Offline Mike Bauman

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Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« on: September 10, 2015, 08:34:10 PM »
I want to thank all that were involved in securing and setting up the lift in Columbus. Although it was labor intensive, I personally think it was a big hit! It allowed everyone the opportunity to see many of the restoration techniques and rare parts that most would never be able to be see. I feel that the opportunity for others to view and photograph cars from this angle will increase the quality of restoration in all classes, as production techniques were similar for many model years.  For many years, I would attend shows to view Thoroughbred and Unrestored cars to take photos and ask questions to help in my restoration.  Without a lift it was very difficult, and alot of times the car owners would be uncomfortable with a stranger crawling under their car. 

While lurking  in the background on this forum I have seen threads asking for judging seminars and more consistency in judging.  With the lift at the Grand National  it could be a good time for some "training" or a "judging seminar " .........just a thought while we're all together!   Both BOSS Cars were on the lift for several hours each on Saturday and I'm certain their owners would be willing to accommodate the MCA.  I understand most of the judges were very busy on Saturday judging.........any thoughts or suggestions on the lift at the MCA GRAND NATIONAL? !?!?!  Mike

Offline rockhouse66

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 08:58:33 PM »
Mike - as a spectator, I really thought the lift was great and I learned a lot looking at your car and Richard/BPs Boss 9.  You were both very generous with the cars and were available for questions which was much appreciated.  Love your B2 - excellent!

The lift is a great asset and should be used for max benefit - like training.
Jim
'66 GT FB, '69 CJ Grande

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2015, 09:02:26 PM »
Mike,

I hate to do it, but there are some problems with using that for training:

1. Only a small subset of judges are at any given show, so coverage is not on our side.
2. While there is a little bit of free time, it is not all that much.  If there is a spouse on the trip, taking away a little free time might pose a bigger problem
3. These cars appeared to be beautiful low mile original unrestored cars (I could be wrong, but did not have more than a couple minutes to drool).  Can be difficult (but not impossible) to draw parallels between a 10k mile Boss 429 and a concours driven 65 six cylinder coupe.

That said, it is certainly a training opportunity.  And all collective training opportunities should be the ticket to success.  There isn't going to be a silver bullet.

I'm pretty comfortable with all things 67, even with plant variations and running changes.  But since I'm certified in 67 and 68, I have to admit that on some of those 68 only things I'm still listening way more than talking.  Bump me over to 64.5-66 or 69 up and I'm not flat out qualified.  Which makes the experts that cross those lines regularly, with accuracy, impressive indeed.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline Mike Bauman

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2015, 09:30:42 PM »
Thanks Jim and John.......I know there is no perfect scenario! ....I was just throwing it out there for comments. .....and  I do know that time is limited as my wife traveled with me this time! .......But it is more cost effective than everyone that wants to participate to have to fly somewhere! .......

Offline hopeto

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 11:37:37 AM »
Hi Mike, I could have sworn there were 3 cars in Thoroughbred on the lift Saturday - not just 2 Boss cars?  ;)
Original one owner 84 GT Convertible with 1800 miles. Two K Code Coupes - 65 Silver Smoke Gray GT 4 Speed - 67 Vintage Burgundy GT. We also have an 86 Oxford White SVO along with a 2012 Yellow Blaze Boss 302 and a 2016 Shelby GT350 R.

Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 12:01:21 PM »
 Three cars, only two Thoroughbreds. ;)

Offline Mike Bauman

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 12:31:39 PM »
I'm sorry hopeto....I don't think I want to open that can of worms!...Mike :-\

Offline carlite65

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2015, 02:09:31 PM »
there were 3 cars. the 3rd was an unrestored '84 conv. that was entered in the t-bred class. i saw one of our well known guru's with his head under the hood.....wish i'd had my camera then!!
5F09C331248

Offline hopeto

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 04:12:21 PM »
Quote
Three cars, only two Thoroughbreds. ;)
You're too kind, Mr. Perkins.
Last time I looked I too had entered my "Unrestored" in Thoroughbred as per the current rules.
"The Thoroughbred Class is designated for the restored or unrestored cars that are restored or
original with the correct era parts, for example, fan belts, battery, exhaust systems, etc."

If a vehicle that has won 4 consecutive Platinum awards in Unrestored scores lower than Bronze level then the rules for Thoroughbred should be changed and not allow Unrestored's to enter - IMO!
Thoroughbred should be for "Restored" vehicles only.

All opinions are appreciated.
Original one owner 84 GT Convertible with 1800 miles. Two K Code Coupes - 65 Silver Smoke Gray GT 4 Speed - 67 Vintage Burgundy GT. We also have an 86 Oxford White SVO along with a 2012 Yellow Blaze Boss 302 and a 2016 Shelby GT350 R.

Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2015, 05:41:58 PM »
Jimmy,

The current rules for THB are fine. We have discussed this more than once. There has been more than one unrestored Mustang to win a THB trophy. I know of Two Gold winners. Both were ultra low mileage cars that had minor detailing to Undercarriage and engine bay to meet THB cleanliness and workmanship standards. Paint , interior and trunks were mint untouched unrestored condition. Why would we want to exclude them from THB class? This was exactly why the THB class was created.

 The Unrestored class is the crown Jewel of MCA. Jimmy you apparently don't agree with this statement? I'm Sure the owner of the White Boss 429 would trade in a heartbeat his car for a 1600 mile unrestored white Boss 429 in same condition as your 84 GT.


Offline azscj

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2015, 02:39:13 AM »
I will throw my comments in here as well. 

First with regards to having a lift at an MCA Show or a Grand National I would like to see this become a standard thing we do.  We need that for these level of cars.  I understand there is alot of added cost and logistics involved, but other clubs like the Corvettes having been doing this for years.  Its for the big leagues.  If your willing to put your car up on a lift and have it judged underneath it says alot.  If you think about it, some of the best workmanship and detailing is done underneath these cars today.  For me this is the true way to judge a car from the bottom up since it shows so much more than what you can see by only walking around. 

As far as the thoroughbred, if its restored or unrestored, I dont think that should matter.  These cars are considered to be the best of the best and if they meet the judging standards then that's all that matters.  They should look and present themselves as the gold standard to which other cars from that year are compared with.  We all know what an exceptional car looks like and that's something that can be appreciated by everyone. 
Marcus Anghel
MCA National Gold Card Judge, 69-71 Mustang
SAAC National Head Judge, Boss Mustangs

http://www.anghelrestorations.com/
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Offline hopeto

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2015, 10:25:51 AM »
Quote
The Unrestored class is the crown Jewel of MCA. Jimmy you apparently don't agree with this statement?
Bob, I agree 100% that is "should" be. Our disagreement is that I don't think the category is treated that way.
The extreme number of Platinum awards given out over the last several years certainly watered down the status of the award. The new rule where awarding only 1 Platinum per class is a step in the right direction but tying it to a cumulative/multiple show total is a step backwards. The wording is an attempt to get more cars to attend more shows and the highest point car at the finale will not necessarily win Platinum?

While I'm on that subject I need a clarification on the new Unrestored Platinum rule:
"Unrestored A Cars with the highest total of cumulative points at end of the show year, and has received a Gold with the lowest amount of deductions at the final show, win a special Platinum Award in each class."
So if a vehicle with the cumulative total going into the final show gets outscored by another vehicle at the final then No Platinum would be awarded in that class?

Thanks Bob and all others for their thoughts.
Jimmy
Original one owner 84 GT Convertible with 1800 miles. Two K Code Coupes - 65 Silver Smoke Gray GT 4 Speed - 67 Vintage Burgundy GT. We also have an 86 Oxford White SVO along with a 2012 Yellow Blaze Boss 302 and a 2016 Shelby GT350 R.

Offline PerkinsRestoration

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2015, 01:01:39 PM »
I don't like cumulative points or any type of participation requirements either.

Offline caspian65

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2015, 06:08:18 PM »
I don't like cumulative points or any type of participation requirements either.

+1, becomes more of a persistence award than anything to do with that actual quality of the car.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline caspian65

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Re: Drive on Lift at Columbus Grand National
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2015, 06:15:06 PM »
I've heard of and been involved in the discussions about having a lift available at grand national shows to judge T-bred.  I like the idea in that it allows judges to be more thorough when judging the undercarriage, which as mentioned, is usually the highest level of detail on a restored car.

One thing I would like to see are more safety measures put in place for having a lift.  It should be roped off and only authorized personnel allowed under the car.  I kind of like how the Aussie's did it.  They coordinated with a local Ford dealership and were allowed to use the shop lifts to judge cars.  It's a more controllable area and the lifts are securely fastened to the shop floor.  It also is less burden on the local club to coordinate getting a lift to the show field.

I understand that some would like to show off the undercarriage to spectators and others, but the main point of the lift is to judge a car properly.  Whether that is onsite or not shouldn't matter.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
Concours Mustang Forum Admin