ConcoursMustang Forums

Restoring - General discussions that apply across many different years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: Brian Conway on November 15, 2017, 10:50:54 PM

Title: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: Brian Conway on November 15, 2017, 10:50:54 PM
Anybody using this tool ?  It's called a Upper Arm Support ?  Pros and Cons ?  Is it made or available ?  65 Shop Manual pg.3-14  Thanks,  Brian
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: caspian65 on November 16, 2017, 12:05:42 AM
It's good to have to keep the upper shock bushings from getting damaged when jacking the car.
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: jwc66k on November 16, 2017, 12:12:15 AM
I usually use a chunk of hi-tech 2 X 4 between the fame and the arm.
Jim
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: ruppstang on November 16, 2017, 12:41:39 AM
We built some after my customer left his car on the two post lift for two weeks and discovered the shock bushings were ruined and the upper ball joint boots were torn.
In the past I have used Jims hi tech 4X4's but I really like this metal design. We added rubber to the ends so as not to mark up things.
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: preaction on November 16, 2017, 01:19:57 AM
Not using them  messes with the strut rod bushings too.
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: Brian Conway on November 16, 2017, 03:20:42 PM
OK. I was aware of possible bushing damage.  Was not aware of upper boot or strut rod damage.  Good to know.  I, of course, have never used anything to support the upper arm.  Just jack the car up, leave everything hanging, and go about whatever it is I 'am doing.  Recently have noticed when I bottom out, usually a pot hole, the front end gives out a grunt-thump sound.  I think it's coming from one of the shocks ?  My thinking is I may have damaged the shock ' valveing ' by not supporting the upper arm ?  Next time I 'am under there I will look into the hi-tech 2x4 support. Brian
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: azscj on November 17, 2017, 12:52:39 AM
I am actually making some more of these.  I am making another 20 sets right now, but yes, a good tool to have when you raise them up.  Ford wanted us to use them for a reason....
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: Texas Swede on November 17, 2017, 10:49:51 AM
The annual car inspection (Government controlled) in Sweden used this tool when measuring the wear of ball joints.
They must have gotten the information from Ford on how to measure play in ball joints.
Texas Swede
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: markb0729 on November 17, 2017, 12:10:36 PM
Wow!  I never knew about supporting the upper control arm.  Now I will!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: ChrisV289 on November 20, 2017, 01:31:33 PM
I am actually making some more of these.  I am making another 20 sets right now, but yes, a good tool to have when you raise them up.  Ford wanted us to use them for a reason....

Just saw this thread, was going to comment that you had made some.   :)
Title: Re: Arm Support ?
Post by: DM_1964 on November 20, 2017, 11:40:37 PM
I am actually making some more of these.  I am making another 20 sets right now, but yes, a good tool to have when you raise them up.  Ford wanted us to use them for a reason....
Marcus, I'm interested in a pair if those 20 aren't already allocated, I'll PM you.
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: stangs-R-me on November 21, 2017, 04:06:09 PM
I made a set this summer and posted a thread on my other favorite classic Mustang forum ...

http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php?/topic/56854-upper-control-arm-support-tools/

Made a second set for a friend ... took around 55 minutes including clean up.   Material cost per set is under $4.00 using 3/8x4" CRS ... computer says we bought 24 ft in 1998 and there was under 16 ft there so 8 ft must have been used at some point.   

One set at a time I think I'd want $40 for a set ... make 3-5 at a time maybe could charge $25-30 / set.

Had I not had material here, I would have likely gone a different route.

McMaster Carr skips over the 1-5/8" width so you would need to use 1-3/4", which is where your average joe would likely buy CF Steel bar in small qty.   They sell it in 6", 12" 24" 36" & 72" lengths.
Using 4" wide like I did you could get 3 sets out of a 24" piece ($43.95 / 3 = $14.65 each set material cost.
or
Using 1-3/4" wide you could get 2 sets out of a 36" piece ... $21.95 / 2 = $10.98 each set material cost (plus UPS shipping cost) and would save a little labor since the 1-5/8" width is only critical at the top where it grabs the upper arm; could leave the lower 5~5.5" the full 1-3/4" width.   This is definitely the cheapest route to go if only making a coupe of sets at a time.   
Buying a 72" piece would not be a huge savings ... $37.85 / 4 = $9.47 each set material cost; however UPS may charge an oversize fee on the 6 FT. package, so could end up being more expensive this way.

Time could be further reduced if they were made from 3/8 x 1-5/8" stock, which surprisingly does exist according to my steel supplier book.   Comes in random 12 ft lengths, so you'd have to make a whole bars worth (8 sets) at a time and likely order the steel with a material stock order to get it delivered cheap.   Material cost would maybe be $4~6.00 each set this way and labor maybe 10-20 minutes labor per set if you were to make 8 sets at a time.

Certainly don't want to go into business making these myself, but just trying to guess at a cost difference between a guy buying material to make one or 2 sets himself vs. done in bulk.

Doug
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: Brian Conway on November 21, 2017, 08:47:38 PM
Thanks for the share Doug.  Read the high-lighted post and sure enough, on the 69 428 cars, the fuel line is right where it shouldn't be ?     Brian
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: OldMustangGuy on November 22, 2017, 01:03:34 AM
Here's a set I made...it's a little cleaner and simpler than the original design and modified so that they don't inadvertantly crush the fuel line on cars where the line runs along the frame rail.  Under the category of full disclosure, my first attempt at these resulted in a bit of a mishap that I have embarrassingly shared with Marcus but this set works great. If anyone is interested I'll send the dimensions.
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: azscj on November 22, 2017, 01:54:40 AM
Here is a quick picture of what I have put together.  The design is based on the actual original Ford tool.  I am adding these to my website for $100 a set plus shipping, or including them free when I do a suspension restoration.  Good tool to have.

(http://[url=http://[url=https://flic.kr/p/ZFqhvb][img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4547/37858417324_6e86d58577_b.jpg)](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4547/37858417324_6e86d58577_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZFqhvb)IMG_7785 (https://flic.kr/p/ZFqhvb) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr[/url][/img]
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: stangs-R-me on November 29, 2017, 07:06:29 PM
Thanks for the share Doug.  Read the high-lighted post and sure enough, on the 69 428 cars, the fuel line is right where it shouldn't be ?     Brian

Intersting ... so maybe my 351W car with it running along the bottom like your 428CJ was correct too ??   When I put new replacement pre-bent lines on my car back in 2005 that is where it wanted to run and lined up with the clamp so that is where it went.   

Having just made the tools, I was a little disheartened to see that the drivers side would not work with the fuel line there so I then assumed my replacement line should have been tweaked before installing to get it to run a little higher.   Not wanting to remove line to tweak (or deal with the gas smell on my hands and likely spillage / mess of removing), I removed the front clamp to see if tube would move enough if I were to simply move the clamp.    Sure enough, just drilled a new hole for the front clamp (original hole is hidden under the clamp) and got it to move up enough from the frame rail so I could used my newly made tools.

Doug   
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: stangs-R-me on November 29, 2017, 07:08:19 PM
Here's a set I made...it's a little cleaner and simpler than the original design and modified so that they don't inadvertantly crush the fuel line on cars where the line runs along the frame rail.  Under the category of full disclosure, my first attempt at these resulted in a bit of a mishap that I have embarrassingly shared with Marcus but this set works great. If anyone is interested I'll send the dimensions.

I really like how your design fits and the simplicity of it ... I'd certainly be interested in seeing the dimensions !!

Thanks,

Doug
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: stangs-R-me on November 29, 2017, 07:17:42 PM
Here is a quick picture of what I have put together.  The design is based on the actual original Ford tool.  I am adding these to my website for $100 a set plus shipping, or including them free when I do a suspension restoration.  Good tool to have.

(http://[url=http://[url=https://flic.kr/p/ZFqhvb][img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4547/37858417324_6e86d58577_b.jpg)](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4547/37858417324_6e86d58577_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZFqhvb)IMG_7785 (https://flic.kr/p/ZFqhvb) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr[/url][/img]

Wow Marcus, your version is a much nicer looking piece than the directions out of the shop manual I followed.

Also ... the picture you posted appears to be the driver's side ... what is it a picture of that the fuel line is not there at all ??

Doug
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: Brian Conway on December 07, 2017, 06:28:15 PM
It seems this tool and construction spec's are in my 65,66 and 69 Shop manuals and always pictured is the right side.  It also seems the fuel line seats in the frame rail, in the same place, in my 65 and my 69.  So taking a tip from ' Old Mustang Guy ' I asked a friend to whip me up a set and add a small tab to the LEFT side support.  Got the set today and they are beautiful.   Had to give them a try and the 69 was elected.  Little fussing around getting installed.  The elevation has to be just right so they don't fall out but after they are seated, yeah, the car goes up the wheels stop going down.  Removal is a piece of cake.  Just lower the car.  Not sure how much use I will get outta these but time will tell.  Shocks and ball joints and not sure what else ?  Brian
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 07, 2017, 08:48:18 PM
It seems this tool and construction spec's are in my 65,66 and 69 Shop manuals and always pictured is the right side.  It also seems the fuel line seats in the frame rail, in the same place, in my 65 and my 69.  So taking a tip from ' Old Mustang Guy ' I asked a friend to whip me up a set and add a small tab to the LEFT side support.  Got the set today and they are beautiful.   Had to give them a try and the 69 was elected.  Little fussing around getting installed.  The elevation has to be just right so they don't fall out but after they are seated, yeah, the car goes up the wheels stop going down.  Removal is a piece of cake.  Just lower the car.  Not sure how much use I will get outta these but time will tell.  Shocks and ball joints and not sure what else ?  Brian
Great idea Brian.It looks easy enough to add to my driver side designated brace.Thanks.
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: OldMustangGuy on December 07, 2017, 09:05:07 PM
Quote
So taking a tip from ' Old Mustang Guy '

I'll be watching for the royalty checks.... 8)
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: J_Speegle on December 07, 2017, 09:37:55 PM
I'll be watching for the royalty checks.... 8)

Take a jacket, hat and mittens  .... gets cold waiting  by the mailbox  ;D this time of year
Title: Re: Upper Control Arm Support ?
Post by: Brian Conway on December 13, 2017, 11:45:17 AM
A recent collaboration between Jerry Heasley and Bob Perkins provided this picture.  Purported to be an original Ford Upper Arm Support Tool complete with a part number.  Obviously a cast piece and not resembling the Shop Manual drawing.  Certainly looks like a very well thought out, heavy duty, professional shop tool.  Brian