Author Topic: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion  (Read 1122 times)

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2017, 03:46:03 PM »
The five cars I mentioned were the first five started.  I am not sure why the Shelby completion date is important, I must be missing that? Especially in light of the fact Smith did not practice strict inventory controls like first in / first out.

I am aware of the strike. All 1968 Shelbys were built after the strike ended by AO Smith, with the exception of those first five cars. So therefore the strike had very little impact on 1968 Shelby production.

I would disagree with “built” in batches. Ordered in batches ...yes. The build sheet groupings I have seen indicate the Shelbys were randomly interspersed with Mustangs.

Bob, I dont think your theory is out of line, but I would need more evidence. I think the fact the numbers appear more random and not coordinated with Ford VINs would seem to indicate it was a Smith assignment.



« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 03:48:40 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline caspian65

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2017, 04:38:24 PM »
Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of VIN's being close, which supports the 'ordering' based on DSO.  Actual build dates I'm sure are scattered... then throw in the randomness of when they were completed at OA...  think I'd rather watch paint dry   :D ;)
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Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2017, 05:50:59 PM »
Just to clarify I think those first five cars were also the first five completed. I base that on physical characteristics they have ( I have seen 3 of the 5 ).  There is also a memo that refers to five “pilot cars”.  We aslo know # 339 was finished before October 5, 1967 because we have pictures of it in Paris.  Kevin Marti has confirmed with me these cars were the first Shelbys. Interestingly, #101 is DSO 8D2508, so its probable cars were not shippd according to DSO either.....Im not sure how many (if any) other Shelbys were assigned that DSO?

After the strike the production techniques changed, so it is easy to identify those cars and separate them from the pre-strike cars. Hope that helps....


http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Productionchanges


http://www.thecoralsnake.com/first.htm





« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 07:48:40 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 06:40:37 PM »
Just read the first post again....

While it seems somewhat unlikely, Smith was doing about 50 cars a day. That represents about two weeks of production from car # 55 to # 600. 

Remember,  some cars sat for weeks before being brought in for conversion. Some cars were built and not immediately accepted by Shelby.

In short, there are a lot of reasons these two cars are close together. I’m not entirely convinced Kevins “completion”  dates are correct, after looking at Smith’s shipping ledger dates.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 07:49:46 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 08:30:28 PM »
The five cars I mentioned were the first five started. I am not sure why the Shelby completion date is important, I must be missing that? Especially in light of the fact Smith did not practice strict inventory controls like first in / first out.

I am aware of the strike. All 1968 Shelbys were built after the strike ended by AO Smith, with the exception of those first five cars. So therefore the strike had very little impact on 1968 Shelby production.

I would disagree with “built” in batches. Ordered in batches ...yes. The build sheet groupings I have seen indicate the Shelbys were randomly interspersed with Mustangs.

Bob, I dont think your theory is out of line, but I would need more evidence. I think the fact the numbers appear more random and not coordinated with Ford VINs would seem to indicate it was a Smith assignment.
I am a little confused but going by your latest post #17 it seems to indicate that you meant to amend the highlighted  statement in this earlier post to read the the first "completed". Is that right?
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2017, 09:55:37 PM »
I believe they were both, the first five started and the first five completed. If you have something completed before October 5, 1967, you will surprise me. That would be #339, Ford # 8T02J110578
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 09:58:39 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline caspian65

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2017, 10:34:57 PM »
While it seems somewhat unlikely, Smith was doing about 50 cars a day. That represents about two weeks of production from car # 55 to # 600. 

50 cars a day... that would be about 17 weeks (5 work days per week) for the entire '68 production of about 4,500 cars.  Are you sure about that?
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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 10:44:34 PM »
I believe they were both, the first five started and the first five completed. If you have something completed before October 5, 1967, you will surprise me. That would be #339, Ford # 8T02J110578
What leads you to believe they were started first?
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2017, 10:47:59 PM »
Many days it was less....I have the running production totals.

50 is the maximum per day. I used that to illustrate the separation was not that great. Regular production lasted from the end of November to the very beginning of July, about 32 weeks more or less.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 11:02:55 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2017, 10:52:46 PM »
For Mr. G.....If they were completed first and have unique build characteristics they were started first. I dont think they would have started with something like production tail light treatment, then switched to a non production method and then switched back to production techniques....


In short, they were started first based on how they were built and the fact there were only a limited number of cars present at Smith/Shelby before the NJ plant stopped production. Those are the five cars I listed above. They were started and finished based on the fact they were appearing at various shows before regular Shelby production restarted.

This is documented in a factory memo. I know Brian has the memo on his site, let me get you the link.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 11:03:42 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2017, 10:59:31 PM »
The date 10-24-67 is before Smith received regular production Shelbys.

http://1967shelbyconvertible.com/documentation/original-documents/1967-10-24-activities-by-sa-ionia.asp

Kevin Marti has shared with me all the cars that were at Smith before the October 24, 1967 date. I shared them above.

Bullet 7b....b) “Ford management along with Mr. Shelby were embarrassed by their appearance in shows.”

Indicates these five cars were completed  :D

« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 11:04:30 PM by Coralsnake »

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2017, 11:13:56 PM »
The date 10-24-67 is before Smith received regular production Shelbys.

http://1967shelbyconvertible.com/documentation/original-documents/1967-10-24-activities-by-sa-ionia.asp

Kevin Marti has shared with me all the cars that were at Smith before the October 24, 1967 date. I shared them above.

Bullet 7b....b) “Ford management along with Mr. Shelby were embarrassed by their appearance in shows.”

Indicates these five cars were completed  :D
I am curious what kind of document inventory or otherwise that showed the cars at the Smith Plant and in what context they were referred to as?
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline caspian65

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2017, 11:19:27 PM »
Many days it was less....I have the running production totals.

50 is the maximum per day. I used that to illustrate the separation was not that great. Regular production lasted from the end of November to the very beginning of July, about 32 weeks more or less.

32 weeks (160 days):  average is about 27-28 cars per day, considering a 5 day work-week.

It would be about a month's worth of production between #55 and #600 (19 work days)
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Online ruppstang

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2017, 11:38:06 PM »
If the first five cars numbers are 41, 339, 101, 301 and 56 that shows me that there was no relationship between the Shelby number and when it was produced.
I find all of this very hard to understand ???

Offline Coralsnake

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Re: 68 Shelby Vin and Completion Date Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 11:42:47 PM »
Charles, I am disagreeing with you, I have always contended that cars were not built in strict numerical order. I am sorry if I didnt make that clear. That was my point of discussing the first five “pilot” cars and sharing their serial numbers.

Mr Gaines theory that Ford knew the Shelby numbers is still possible, but needs more developement, imho

I am willing to share anything I have that may be helpful to the conversation and a better understanding.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 11:46:51 PM by Coralsnake »