ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Mustang => Topic started by: Blown351stang on November 05, 2016, 09:00:44 AM
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Hi all
My first post and first Mach1 8). I have been thinking of doing a engine bay restoration not concours but a lot closer to the original look. It has been done before at some time in it's life I do not know the cars history.
The car is a 11/69 Dearborn 351 cleveland built car. I have tryed to find photos of some original cars but have not found many and they all seem to look different. So the bay should be semi gloss black with slop gray hood hinge,shock mount? I will put so photos up of what it looks like now.
What air filter housing do they have? like how many holes are in the side of the housing for pipes or are just blocked off.
What oil cap on rocker cover would it have?
All input would be appreciated.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/6stbldzvl/P1020535.jpg)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/4piwdradd/P1020417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wcvlruvjx/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/yu7cz4n69/P1020205.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5rt2wb0wd/)I have some right rocker covers for it.
Is this the right OK stamp for a Dearborn engine?(https://s6.postimg.cc/hseiwynpt/P1020594.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4bhke3de5/)(https://s6.postimg.cc/dac84i4zl/P1040116.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ilr4p7r25/)
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First welcome to the site - we hope that it meets you concours related needs for your project or restoration
The car is a 11/69 Dearborn 351 cleveland built car. ...................
So the bay should be semi gloss black with slop gray hood hinge,shock mount?
No. Hood hinges and springs would have been phosphate and oil as were the front upper shock mounts.
There are a number of unrestored 70 Dearborn threads that will/should help with these generic details for that plant. Don't have to be the exact same engine combination for these details.
Hood latch support and a handful of other parts were a slop gray. Check the FAQs for this section for a list of those parts.
What air filter housing do they have? like how many holes are in the side of the housing for pipes or are just blocked off.
If you would include where your car was delivered to we can narrow down the answer to those questions
What oil cap on rocker cover would it have?
Large flat "cookie cutter" style breather with a plastic hose nipple attached
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-051116160721-64352492.jpeg)
I have some right rocker covers for it.
Is this the right OK stamp for a Dearborn engine?
You sure that bottom one is correct? Formed differently from the other and from others I have pictures of
Dearborn engines were built at the same place as they were for the other two plants so in this case the car assembly plant does not matter in this detail
Three different styles/layouts were used during 70 production from what I have. Most of the time I've found it on the passenger side valve cover and only on a couple on the drivers side. Is this from the original valve covers or ones you've purchased?
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Thanks for the welcome.
The car was delivered to Houston TX.
With the hood hinges and shock mounts being phosphate and oil would they look like this photo?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/vpwp24169/P1020797.jpg
[url=https://postimg.cc/image/vd5avxqm5/][img]https://s6.postimg.cc/cxktyjcht/P1020802.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/q1qeb7wtp/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/cxktyjcht/P1020802.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vd5avxqm5/)As for rocker covers no I am not sure if there the right ones for that year I just purchased them as 70's cleveland covers but I do think the light blue one is not right as it has the rocker oil deflector welded in it. The dark blue one would be the passenger side and have a PCV in the spot of the elbow. I thought the dark blue one would be a early cover since the US did not use the cleveland for very long.
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I have a 70 351 c heat shield & tube for the snorkel if you want to correct that.
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I have a 70 351 c heat shield & tube for the snorkel if you want to correct that.
Pm sent.
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looks like your snorkel is much more common 71 big opening for 2'' paper tube
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The valve covers with the oil drippers inside are the correct versions for your 70 motor. Later 351Cs did not have them.
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The valve covers with the oil drippers inside are the correct versions for your 70 motor. Later 351Cs did not have them.
Bugger I will have to keep a look out for another good valve cover.
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Bugger I will have to keep a look out for another good valve cover.
check For Sale section
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check For Sale section
Had a look but the ones just listed look to be just drives side covers.
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Is this transmission selector arm on the bottom of the steering column normally on manual cars or could it just be a automatic ford column been put in the car?(https://s6.postimg.org/6wn51kd1t/P1020815d.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ozg7ss8wd/)
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That's is for the steering lock rod.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1970-Mustang-Reverse-Lock-out-Rod-D0ZA-7E330-S-Boss-302-428CJ-351-/322211857721?hash=item4b0552c539:g:YQoAAOSwH3NXnhlI&vxp=mtr
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Should the grommet above the main wiring in the fire wall have something going through it or should it just be a blank plug?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/vfp6ilesh/P1020884.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/m7wy1w7q5/)
My engine fan has a big gap between fan & shroud at the top and the bottom of the shroud is broken it looks like the engine sits to low do those engine mounts look right for a cleveland? I want to put a new fan shroud on.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/8e8ld0mwh/P1020870.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kg3z75w4t/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/hys7zy9oh/P1020873.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/f4p2mi7i5/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/dpnhxye6p/P1020877.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/erxoghwzx/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/xyavj70ht/P1020856.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ueoxtdxrx/)
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Should the grommet above the main wiring in the fire wall have something going through it or should it just be a blank plug?
Believe it depends on what options, accessories, and other things the car was originally equipped with
My engine fan has a big gap between fan & shroud at the top and the bottom of the shroud is broken it looks like the engine sits to low do those engine mounts look right for a Cleveland? I want to put a new fan shroud on.
BTW the stater cable bracket should be attached to the end end of that upper rubber mount (at the block) not down at the bottom
As for the frame mounts I'll see if I have some pictures to share not sure if your going to be able to tell from just looking
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BTW the stater cable bracket should be attached to the end end of that upper rubber mount (at the block) not down at the bottom
Should the starter cable be between the motor mount & block or exhaust manifold & mount?
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Should the starter cable be between the motor mount & block or exhaust manifold & mount?
Looks like the cable (red arrow) goes over the motor mount and bracket to front top bolt (purple arrow) to you aftermarket starter :( LOL
The motor mounts you have are aftermarket also so no telling what they were designed for or what application they were made for
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-010117161312-6556326.jpeg)
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Looks like the cable (red arrow) goes over the motor mount and bracket to front top bolt (purple arrow) to you aftermarket starter :( LOL
The motor mounts you have are aftermarket also so no telling what they were designed for or what application they were made for.
Thanks for that jeff. Yeah the aftermarket starter was on it when I got the car I may change it back to a clapper starter. Jeff would you have any photos of the right PCV and grommet for the passengers valve cover?
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Thanks for that jeff. Yeah the aftermarket starter was on it when I got the car I may change it back to a clapper starter. Jeff would you have any photos of the right PCV and grommet for the passengers valve cover?
Should - let me find that tomorrow and follow up. Trying to catch up with all the threads here and elsewhere after this last weekend's trip
Just for my reference - car is a 11/69 Dearborn 351 cleveland built car.
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Should - let me find that tomorrow and follow up. Trying to catch up with all the threads here and elsewhere after this last weekend's trip
Just for my reference - car is a 11/69 Dearborn 351 cleveland built car.
Yes that is correct.
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............ would you have any photos of the right PCV and grommet for the passengers valve cover?
Not the greatest pictures (not the focus of the photo original) but hope they help
Thick big round grommet - replacement PCV and hoses
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-260117175927.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-260117175948.jpeg)
More original iMHO - preshaped/curved hose and appears to be original style PCV
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-260117180007.jpeg)
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Ok engine bay is just about stripped of its parts and ready for paint stripping and repair some screw holes and rust under battery tray.
But there are some questions on the paint finish on bay, Outer bay panels, Bottom of the chassis rails.The car looks to have had the engine bay painted before the outer panels not real sure on that maybe some one can tell me that from the photos and the bottom of the chassis rail looks old and hard to tell as well. Its a 1970 Mach1 11/69 Dearborn car.
Lets start with the bay it looks like it was painted black over bare metal then red oxide and then black again the first coat could be the original factory layer but not sure if the whole bays are red oxide first then satin blacked.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/6ay65jxg1/P1030593.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4vwlgtwct/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/u37hgm1wh/P1030654.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kinutqckd/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/tqg3ah1n5/P1030267.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/xa210a4ct/)The top section of the firewall would it be satin black like the rest of the bay and would the black go all the way up to the windshield or does it stop just under the wiper panel and then its just the body colour to windshield?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/71qwb7hs1/P1030243.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bavmddl19/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/bnn0jp8ht/P1020548.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iquvzbdx9/)With the outer panels the sound deadener is flaking off and under that it just looks like thin black paint. On the drivers side under one of the steering box bolts theres a small amount of yellow/gold over spray.
Would it just be all black with maybe a bit of over spray from the body been painted then the sound deadener over that? I know its a little hard to see but does the sound deadener spray pattern look to be right? I do have more photos if it helps.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/nffh81pv5/P1030592.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5pdsn0ca5/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/7h6rhx3cx/P1030602.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/z4jgw0ojh/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/6ewkzcxe9/P1030610.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7h6rhwg7h/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc
/y29adgqap/P1030657.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/yf0ojn8kd/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/k8kxokq1d/P1030510.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/74fdbvxzh/)
Now the bottom of the chassis would it be just black or red oxide? I have cleaned some paint off and it just looks like black over bare metal?
(https://s6.postimg.cc/ot2ipj7fl/P1010885.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gat2l70wt/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/3w6akyh5d/P1030719.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ne0y0we31/)
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Ok engine bay is just about stripped of its parts and ready for paint stripping and repair some screw holes and rust under battery tray.
But there are some questions on the paint finish on bay, Outer bay panels, Bottom of the chassis rails.The car looks to have had the engine bay painted before the outer panels not real sure on that maybe some one can tell me that from the photos and the bottom of the chassis rail looks old and hard to tell as well. Its a 1970 Mach1 11/69 Dearborn car.
Lets start with the bay it looks like it was painted black over bare metal then red oxide and then black again the first coat could be the original factory layer but not sure if the whole bays are red oxide first then satin blacked.
Looks to me from the picture that you have red oxide (likely only in some places and bare steel in others) them the engine compartment black over that. Top exposed color is really the main focus since its the coat you'll see on the finished product
The top section of the firewall would it be satin black like the rest of the bay and would the black go all the way up to the windshield or does it stop just under the wiper panel and then its just the body colour to windshield?
The top of the cowl - looks like possibly two different applications of black especially considering that all the mounting hardware for everything under the cowl cover is black and the engine compartment black was applied long before those items were installed
With the outer panels the sound deadener is flaking off and under that it just looks like thin black paint. On the drivers side under one of the steering box bolts theres a small amount of yellow/gold over spray.
Is the yellow gold (looks greenish on my monitor) a match to the exterior color? Easy to see that someone in the past got in those wheel wells with a black spray can covering things.
Would it just be all black with maybe a bit of over spray from the body been painted then the sound deadener over that? I know its a little hard to see but does the sound deadener spray pattern look to be right? I do have more photos if it helps.
Typically you will find the color from the bottom of the frame and from the firewall forward as a base (shot first) then body color from the guy applying that at Dearborn. They often painted forward to almost the rear edge of the shock tower, sometimes into the shock tower or to the forward edge - no mandatory place they had to stop. Because they seem to not have wanted to bend over on every car every time the edge is over tilted from the lower edge of spray forward and upward
Then the engine compartment sprayer did his job - inside of the engine walls, up and over the cowl, paint the radiator support (no identified specific order known) and they often wrapped the black around the edges onto the forward inner fender panels, on the outer surface. How far back they applied (or downward towards the frame rail on the sides was their choice at the time. Sometimes they were covering markings applied earlier to the panels or spray outs applied there by the body paint guy.
Now the bottom of the chassis would it be just black or red oxide? I have cleaned some paint off and it just looks like black over bare metal?
Likely allot has worn off from exposure and surface rust that has developed on the thin application. Looks like there is allot more there to clean. Pockets and vertical surfaces on small areas facing rearward might provide the best resource for a look at the original color and product applied Check inside the shock tower area also since the same product should be the base or above the red oxide if shot in there, in that area
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Can anyone tell me what the clutch rod hole in the firewall size is? The car is a factory manual car but the rod seal that you can get for 67 -73 mustangs are to small for the hole. I can not see why the hole would of been made bigger or is it that the seal is really not right for its.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/xhzb84gb5/P1030808.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/xuqpeaykt/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/443ks0y0h/P1020816.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/obh0kbvhp/)
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Can anyone tell me what the clutch rod hole in the firewall size is? The car is a factory manual car but the rod seal that you can get for 67 -73 mustangs are to small for the hole. I can not see why the hole would of been made bigger or is it that the seal is really not right for its.
Just for comparison here is another example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-150317171006.jpeg)
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Just for comparison here is another example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-150317171006.jpeg)
FYI don't forget the foam gasket behind the power booster as is illustrated in Jeff's picture. It is commonly forgotten.
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FYI don't forget the foam gasket behind the power booster as is illustrated in Jeff's picture. It is commonly forgotten.
Thanks Bob yes I do have a foam gasket when its ready to go back together.
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While I have been stripping the bay I have come across some factory markings.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/7npihyirl/P1030643.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/r5k5xwfp9/)
I do not know what this means.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/bk2ue0gmp/P1040077.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5vwjn4ca5/)
I am guessing that maybe a Vermilion colour car was painted before this one.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/veow053k1/P1040091.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/sxd4svjnh/)
I see 142.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/7ay4bv88h/P1030684.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9fihcy9v1/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/4guyyft7l/P1030493.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/sxd4swty5/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/ta4iz3rnl/P1030475.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5j55gzrgd/)
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While I have been stripping the bay I have come across some factory markings.
I do not know what this means.
Likely first rotation number - Matches well with all the other Dearborn car we see
I see 142.
Second rotation number
Believe the label is from a light assembly that fell off or stuck to a worker so he stuck it there rather than throwing it on the floor
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Likely first rotation number - Matches well with all the other Dearborn car we see
Second rotation number
Believe the label is from a light assembly that fell off or stuck to a worker so he stuck it there rather than throwing it on the floor
Thanks Jeff your a man of knowledge I hope you put this all in a book one day.
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never seen the rh lh stickers on apron tops & I had them made as they go on 70 gold sidemarker retainers under fenders &would have thought they would have already stuck on the retainers also they go on inside trunk black plastic side light retainers & they are both red & black letters depending on front or rear retainers
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What is the big blob's of sealant they put over the sheet metal joints and gaps or in corners?
Is it just like the rope caulking ? on my car after 48 years its gone hard and looks white or very light grey.
(https://s6.postimg.cc/7ay4byvep/P1030810.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hxrxhe3jx/)
(https://s6.postimg.cc/4guyyjgdt/P1030700.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/jcti64rsd/)
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What is the big blob's of sealant they put over the sheet metal joints and gaps or in corners?
Is it just like the rope caulking ? on my car after 48 years its gone hard and looks white or very light grey.
Might be but think it is likely a similar product. Often the white we find in sealants and sound deadener is the asbestos aging, becoming visible and turning after all these years.
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good ? someone needs to figure out exactly what that sealant is as it is used many places on the body joints& corners
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good ? someone needs to figure out exactly what that sealant is as it is used many places on the body joints& corners
Not sure if we need to figure out what was used or just what to use today to reproduce the look ;) Hard to tell after all these years how flexible it was in the first year and details like that but it seems to have stayed where they put it, didn't level out like some of the other sealants/chalking and depending on year and application what colors were used when and where
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Just a question on engine block cast dates.
My cleveland block in the mach1 has be changed at one time in its life with a DOAE-L cast date 0M16 (70/12/16) block which is to late for my car and now I am on the lookout for a closer to correct block for it.
The car was built 11/26/69 there is no engine build tag on it. I have found two blocks 1 being a DOAE-J cast date 9K3 (69/10/3) and the other being a DOAE-J cast date 9L6 (69/11/6) I am just not sure which one if any would suit my car the 9L6 sounds closer to the other parts. The intake manifold has 9L4 (69/11/4), The heads are 9K30 (69/10/30) & 9L3 (69/11/3), And exhaust manifolds 9K26 (69/10/26) & 9K30 (69/10/30). What would the time be from casting engine blocks to having them ready and putting them into the cars?
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Just a question on engine block cast dates.
My Cleveland block in the mach1 ......................................
The car was built 11/26/69 .............
I have found two blocks
1 being a DOAE-J cast date 9K3 (69/10/3) .....
the other being a DOAE-J cast date 9L6 (69/11/6)
I am just not sure which one if any would suit my car the 9L6 sounds closer to the other parts. The intake manifold has 9L4 (69/11/4), The heads are 9K30 (69/10/30) & 9L3 (69/11/3), And exhaust manifolds 9K26 (69/10/26) & 9K30 (69/10/30).
What would the time be from casting engine blocks to having them ready and putting them into the cars?
Though its not written I assume that you believe that the intake and other cast parts are from your original engine. The latest date on the appears to be the Nov 4th intake date
Looking at the examples of data from other 70 Dearborn examples I see spreads between the block and the intake and heads of 3 - approx 30 days as typical. For this reason I would choose the earlier 9K3 block
Now at the same time we are missing a more important date to double check and compare to the 11/26/69 build date you provided for the completed car and that is the assembly date on the block for the completed engine since if that date on this particular block is after the Nov 26 it would then not be a good candidate IMHO
Hope this helps
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Looking at the examples of data from other 70 Dearborn examples I see spreads between the block and the intake and heads of 3 - approx 30 days as typical. For this reason I would choose the earlier 9K3 block
Thanks for your input Jeff.
I guess 9K3 would make a bit more sense by the time it's casted ,cooled, cleaned then all the machining work done and ready to be assembled the 9L6 could be to close to the build date.
I am not to sure if the other cast parts are off the original engine just that they are much earlier then when the car was built.