ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gta289 on March 31, 2010, 07:12:55 PM
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Can anyone provide pictures and/or a description of where a Dec 66 SJ built tilt vacuum cannister should go? From what I've read it sounds like pass side under hinge, but I'm not sure whether in engine compartment or in wheel house. Thanks, John
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In the wheelhouse
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There are a couple of possible locations. Thanks for posting the when and where, will check my pictures to get an idea of where others had theirs
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The assembly date plays a key role in where and what type of vacuum cannister was used in 67. Very early 67s may have had a round, coffee can style cannister under the battery tray mount in the engine compartment. More commonly was the oblong cannister mounted inside the engine between the hood hinge and firewall on the passenger side. Very late 67s may have had the round, coffee can style mounted in the wheel well between the hood hinge and firewall on the passenger side.
Give us your assembly date and any other options your 67 came with and we can give you better guideance.
Regards,
Pete MOrgan
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built dec 20 1966
2+2
C code
C4
GTA
PS
PDB
no air
SJ build, SJ DSO - thermactor
Thanks, John
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Little challenge with the pictures since few examples got the tilt steering wheel
Would guess that you can look for either of these styles and can confirm which one your car originally had based on the location and number of mounting holes
There is possibly IMHO a third late version
From - 7R01A130x11
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/7R01A130xxx11-10-66Tilt-ACcan.jpg)
From - 7R01A194xxx4
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/7R01A194xxx4-20-67PSfirewall.jpg)
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I have a San Jose built mustang, 7R02S
build date Dec 15 1966
factory tilt wheel and A/C
It has the oblong tank in the first picture
Alan
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For 67 the vacuum can mounted on the rear apron by the hood spring was the vacuum canister for the A/C like it is for the later years IMHO. In 67 the tilt canister was mounted on the battery tray as indicated in the assembly manual. There are 3 sets of holes prepunched on the assemblyline Battery trays . One set is for 6 cylinder , one for V8, and one for 390. I don't when the transition changed where the can mounted to the back side of the apron under the battery box like all 68,69,70's did. I believe if it was in 67 production it is very late IMHO . I have seen a number of examples in late June that had it on the battery box. They were all San Jose so other plants could have varied . Bob
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Bob,
I wondered what all of the extra holes on the original group 22 battery tray for my 67 convertible. Now I know!
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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It is not a area that we normally pay a lot of attention to IMHO. I have a theory that this hole pattern was prepunched in all the 67 battery tray's whether it came with tilt or not. With the corrosion caused by the battery acid it is very common for the tray to be replaced. I hadn't noticed this difference myself until last year which is when I started studying it. The service trays didn't have the holes that I have ever seen or heard of. Out of the several dozen 67 Mustangs original battery trays with the hole pattern that I have now observed ( since I realized what I needed to look for) still in cars only one actually had factory tilt away. Bob
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Bib and I have been discussing this for a little while. Not sure IMHO if this was a whole year long thing or a running change like so many other things in 67. Interesting to find all the trays with both (what the instructions suggest) 6 cyl and 8 cyl holes.
BTW the instructions Bob posted was from a factory cruise control installation instructions
Still looking for examples of original tilts with a can installed there
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I can not find any kind of change over information yet in any Ford documents. As Jeff noted we have been discussing the information for a while and it was Jeff who so kindly brought to my attention the cruise control install docs that also used the battery tray location. Interestingly and a little puzzling is the fact that in the engineering drawings (page 46 and 47 of the chassis manual so you don't pass over it 100 times like I have ;) )for the tilt canister the illustration indicates that the 3 pairs of holes were for 6cyl ,V8 and 390. I am still trying to figure out why there would be a need for a different orientation of the can for a 390 when compared to a V8. The V8 and 390 different pair of holes are only slightly different location. Just another one of the many changes for 67 that makes this type of historical studying interesting (or maddening :o ). Bob
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I was reading back through old threads and for what it is worth, more updated information about these canisters can be found in other threads. As mentioned, there looks to be a running change involved AND the correct location & type used has a lot to do with the car's factory installed options as well as assembly location.
I would definitely use the "search feature" and/or ask questions on this topic before making changes or deciding on what is correct for your example.
One thread from late 2014:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9931.msg59847#msg59847
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I do have a tilt away (but not working :(). Had some exchanges with John on this.
My car was build Nov. 30 1966. Will take some pictures in the days to come. Have to search for the location.
Currently no idea where things are located..... ;D
Ralf.
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Finally got my tilt away working 8)
Installed a check valve which keeps the vacuum now (vaccum canister engine bay)
Mine looks like Jeff posted (From - 7R01A130x11)
Thx Ralf
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Finally got my tilt away working 8)
Installed a check valve which keeps the vacuum now (vaccum canister engine bay)
Mine looks like Jeff posted (From - 7R01A130x11)
Thx Ralf
Thanks Ralf, I have been collecting data on this subject and with what I have to date, I would anticipate you would have the oblong canister as long as your example has factory AC.
May I ask if your example DOES have factory AC AND tilt, and if these are confirmed on a Marti Report?
If true, do you know if you have a "T" in the vacuum hose to split the AC supply and the Tilt supply? (I would suspect if your example is not too chopped up, this "T" should be found under the dash, not under the hood) I have found so far only one other example that had this "T" under the dash and my example should too, but mine had been hacked up by some teenager, way back in the late 70's and this guy (me) wasn't thinking "Concours" when he did it ::) :-[
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Thanks Ralf, I have been collecting data on this subject and with what I have to date, I would anticipate you would have the oblong canister as long as your example has factory AC.
May I ask if your example DOES have factory AC AND tilt, and if these are confirmed on a Marti Report?
If true, do you know if you have a "T" in the vacuum hose to split the AC supply and the Tilt supply? (I would suspect if your example is not too chopped up, this "T" should be found under the dash, not under the hood) I have found so far only one other example that had this "T" under the dash and my example should too, but mine had been hacked up by some teenager, way back in the late 70's and this guy (me) wasn't thinking "Concours" when he did it ::) :-[
Richard,
Mine is factory.
AC and tilt away are confirmed in Marti Report.
Since I'm not a real technician therefore unable to answer your other questions. As far as I could see, no T.
However, can take some pictures to post them.
Thx Ralf
Pics
Canister shown and check valve (yellow/blue)
Surely not concours, but doesn't matter. Glad that system is working.
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Hi Ralf,
Would you be able to help me out with a picture and a measurement?
I have a tilt-away system for my 67 convertible, but I need to know where the door jam actuator switch should be. My door pillar was replaced and there is no extra hole for the switch.
A picture of your door jam and a measurement from the center of the switch to a reference point like the center of the door light switch would be very much appreciated.
My car has factory AC as well. Just to confirm, with tilt away and factory AC there is only one shared vaccuum canister?
Thanks,
Dave
67 Convertible GTA
Dearborn made in April
A code
Factory AC
Power steering
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Here some pics of door jam. Factory tilt away. Second from top. And factory A/C. Both in Marti.
And only one vac canister.
Measurements shown in cm! on my car. Others might be different.
>> horizontal 2 cm (midpoint to midpoint)
>> vertical 3 cm (midpoint to midpoint)
Ralf
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My car has factory AC as well. Just to confirm, with tilt away and factory AC there is only one shared vaccuum canister?
Thanks,
Dave
The measurement for the switch you are asking about would IMHO, most likely would have been randomly drilled (punched) by a line worker (but yes, you could confirm against another build example close to your car's date and assembly plant)
Then, the 1/2 of your question I wish to address, "Is there ONE shared canister"...again, research has indicated that your build data is an important requirement to determine the most likely answer to that question.
Most importantly, When and where was your 67 convertible built and perhaps a bit less important, do you have confirmation of the Tilt-Away and factory installed Select-Aire, air conditioning confirmed on your Marti Report?
If either of these options have been "added" by a previous owner, being "exact" on repairs or installation becomes a bit more flexible in the responses. Later production vehicles have been upgraded to help in the overall "better" function of the Tilt-Away & AC system and to provide "Assembly Line" feasibility of including the Speed Control option also, without slowing down the assembly line.
It boils down to this, if you are ADDING or CORRECTING an installation of the Tilt-Away option, you may wish to upgrade the installation to the later design to be happiest with the overal function of everything. If going "Concours", dates & location become critical to supply you with the correct details.
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I know this is a relatively old thread, but I have a question. My car was NOT equipt with tilt but
I added the column in the 90's when my solid shaft column was bent and I wanted something a
tad safer that a sword pointed at my chest. I never hooked up the vacuum as it really wasn't
important to me. But I would like to do that now.
My question really comes down to the canister styles that I find in original and reproduction form
that have either a single port or a dual port on them. Which was used for what purpose. I also
have read about check valves, but the documentation doesn't show one in the system. I would
'prefer' it to look correct, but it doesn't have to as long as it uses Ford parts. My car is a Dearborn
67 Fastback and the VIN (partial) is in my signature.
The car does NOT have A/C, Cruise, or Power Steering.
Thanks
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First what is important to know is when you car was built. The early 67s had a canister bolted to the inside of the rear passenger apron and had a check valve in the vacuum line before the canister. The latter cars used a canister that was mounted on the outside of the same apron and it had a built in check valve. Both had a inlet and outlet. Hope this helps.
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I believe that the separate check valve was only used if you had the Tilt and A/C, and/or Speed Control. If you had Tilt only, the two port canister had an internal check valve. This canister is considerably different and smaller than the one used if you had one or both of the other options.
In looking further at the Speed Control Vacuum Diagrams, it appears that the check valve was not required for the Speed Control.
Bob
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I believe that the separate check valve was only used if you had the Tilt and A/C, and/or Speed Control. If you had Tilt only, the two port canister had an internal check valve. This canister is considerably different and smaller than the one used if you had one or both of the other options.
In looking further at the Speed Control Vacuum Diagrams, it appears that the check valve was not required for the Speed Control.
Bob
Yes you are correct, had my mind on AC.
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.............In looking further at the Speed Control Vacuum Diagrams, it appears that the check valve was not required for the Speed Control.
+1 Plenty of possible T's but no inline check valves (not counting ones that may be built into the cans) none needed if the car has only that option.
For others viewing the thread the diagrams are all posted in an article in the 67 Library section
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Thanks for all the input. I have gone through my store of air tanks and selected the
internal check value unit that I had with two ports. For those who were interested the
attached are the choices I had of the small cans. I also had three larger units that were
not can style, but those were clearly not going to look correct.
Now to search the forum for pictures of the hose routing and clips/grommets to secure it.
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Now to search the forum for pictures of the hose routing and clips/grommets to secure it.
Think that article will especially help out there ;)
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Thanks for all the input. I have gone through my store of air tanks and selected the
internal check value unit that I had with two ports. For those who were interested the
attached are the choices I had of the small cans. I also had three larger units that were
not can style, but those were clearly not going to look correct.
Now to search the forum for pictures of the hose routing and clips/grommets to secure it.
Linc : Before you go searching wildly, just a few things to be aware of :
1) You still haven't noted if your car has Factory A/C or not. Since you are picking the round vacuum canister (Part # C7ZZ-3E547-A), that says that you do not have Factory A/c. Factory A/C cars used vacuum canister C7ZZ-19A566-A (the larger oval one) plus the check valve.
2) You have also not noted your build date. If you go back and look at all of the Posts in this thread, you will see that there are 3 possible locations for the "Tilt Only" canister, based on build date. These are a) outside (in fender well) of front fender rear inner fender apron; b) inside (engine compartment side) of front fender rear inner fender apron ; and c) under the battery tray.
3) "Heed what you read". In other words, pay attention to what others suggest like checking out the 1967 Articles in the Library Section of this Forum, and use the Search function to find possible other Articles about the same subject.
4) If you still have a question after that, Post another Reply, including all pertinent info (Plant, Build date, Options, etc.) in order to help others with a Reply to your questions. Remember, most people Replying have had a lot of experience, both "hands on" and otherwise, and will be able to assist you, and point you in the right direction.
5) Finally, to use a phrase from our Administrator, "Search is your friend". Use it freely. Not only will it make you more knowledgeable in asking questions, but potentially it will generate other questions to ask at the same time as opposed to thinking about them later.
Bob
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BOB: He did mention he had NO AC. Also, since the most recent poster said he merely wished to replicate a "factory-looking" install and since it was not original equipment, I doubt he is also too concerned that it is absolutely 100% correct for his build date. I haven't brought up the concerns you expressed, though I thought the same questions. Then, as this poster notes in his signature:
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I am Linc.... What more could you possibly need to know.
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uh.. thanks bob...
I seldom search 'wildly' I don't have time for that.
I added the information to my original post that my car did NOT have A/C
The first two replies to my original post on this thread had actually answered
my question, which was had to do with single and dual port cans and why that
was.
I don't have a Marty Report and don't want one. I cannot find my door tag that
has been missing since the mid 90's when it was removed to repaint the door.
So I can't tell you that specific information. The best I can do is bore you with
the many things on my car that, to me, are full of Ford Factory Assembly Line
weirdness. Since I did not own my car for the first 23 years of it's existence, I
cannot and will not say anything is 'original' to it.
Very sorry if you feel I am not living up to your forum standards. I am not here
to waste the time of others or create what appears to be a frustration on your
part. If I am reading into that, I am sorry. I asked a general question and received
a general answer. I was good with that.
Thanks again to EVERYONE who offered up information. It is appreciated very much.
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Linc (and Richard) : Sorry, I missed that in Linc's original Post in regard to no A/C, cruise or Power Steering - my oversight.
And Linc, I sure didn't mean to imply that you were not "living up to Forum standards" as you put it. Sorry if you got that impression.
I was just trying to pass on things learned in order to help you. Don't ever hesitate to ask any questions for which you are seeking help or advice.
Again, sorry you got the wrong impression from my Reply.
Bob
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Very sorry if you feel I am not living up to your forum standards. I am not here
to waste the time of others or create what appears to be a frustration on your
part. If I am reading into that, I am sorry. I asked a general question and received
a general answer. I was good with that.
Thanks again to EVERYONE who offered up information. It is appreciated very much.
Hoping you saw my comment, the one using your signature quote, as HUMOR...that was my only intention :D
If received otherwise...apologies as needed :/ :-\ :-[
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Thanks guys,
I have a thick skin and a dry sense of humor myself. I have to dance around on forums trying
really hard not to offend or upset someone. Hard not to get caught in that game of "what did they
really mean" of internet forums. Much easier face to face when you can judge a persons facial
reaction to you.
My signature is the same on every forum I am a member of since 1994-ish. I am a privacy geek
and that is really the point of that.
To clarify, I am not upset, irritated, angered, or miffed. I might be tired, I usually am, but that
probably doesn't matter much. I just don't want to create drama for anyone. (which I inadvertently
may have done anyway).
As a side note, I totally understand your points trying to drill down the details. You guys (Mustang-ers)
have it so much better than some others. We (Fairlaners) troll the Mustang sites looking for clues
as they shared some of the same processes and procedures. I have been one of the tech advisers
for the FCA since about 2002 (68-69 Cars) as well as one of the concourse judges under the direction
of a person some of you might know, Marty Burke.
So, having said all of that... carry on.
[MODERATORS - PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DELETE MY NON RELEVANT POST ]