Author Topic: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.  (Read 30802 times)

Offline rodster

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 10:35:59 AM »
I agree we all want to avoid 'hack jobs' but sometimes Ford leaves us no choice. A good example is 1999 SVT Contour.  The hole in the floor is 5" when Ford used a 5 1/2" fuel pump. 

My choice was to either make some nice cuts in the floor and peel back the sheet metal slightly or.... drain the (naturally)  ::)  full tank of gas, remove the exhaust, disconnect filler and return fuel lines, relocate brake cables and a bunch of other stuff just to drop the tank to access the fuel pump. I choose to make some nice clean cuts. Part of my reasoning was, if the fuel pump goes again and I'm out on the road, I'm ready for a quick fix.

In my book this is still a 'hack job' but a necessary choice.

The blend door actuator problems scare me on my '09.  When I take it in for the Spring service I'll have to check on extending the warranty!

Thanks for the write up and pictures to follow...

1965 Dearborn Mustang Coupe
Raven Black - Palomino Pony
1967 Dearborn Mustang Conv.
Wimbeldon White - Red
1984 SVO - 2A

Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 05:27:19 AM »

Believe me boys,  I am the last one to start cutting anything to get a job done.   But I believe IT IS necessary in this case.  I will measure the cut.. I think that it's an inch if I "eyed" it..  I would not cut anything if I didn't have to... but I'm not going to spend 2 days dis-assembling my 2007 dash for a 1 inch cut.  No way.  I've been working on cars for over 30 years...so I'm a seasoned pro and a mechanic as well.  Another reason for the 1 inch cut is that we all know that this is NOT going to be the last time these parts are replaced.  It will also make it easier for the next time around years from now as well.

I'll post the pics I took tomorrow.  It's too late now and I'm going to bed.

:o)

Tony K.

Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
MCA#70001

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 07:50:53 AM »
 From the OP's first post to this thread:

"I expect this thread to eventually be the "Go To" place for this issue on the entire web..." "...I will eventually post up pictures and video to help deal with this issue and help people resolve the problem without having to go to the Ford Dealer and Spend over $600 to get it fixed when their car is no longer under warranty. "


Maybe, as a reminder,  what needs mentioned first here is that this is a Concours site and repair work that doesn't "RESTORE" the vehicles isn't the primary focus of this forum. Repair work is repair work. Restoration work is restoration work. I believe the answer to one primary question should be asked before going into action, especially in "Restoration" work but even in "Repair Work" :

"If I do this, can this work ever be 'undone' in the future" Is there an "UNDO button for this job, should I ever need to go back to concours...as it was delivered to the original owner"


Please, let us see your work. As I have said before, for the right reasons, I will do shortcuts. But please also understand that I have learned the "fastest way" isn't always the "best way" and I believe before a person reading this post goes the "fast way", they should also fully understand & know the "correct" (or "by the book") way.

Richard

« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 12:22:40 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline AU SNK

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 09:26:16 AM »
look forward to seeing the pics on this. my 2010 Shelby has been making this noise for about a year.
Unrestored 66 Metuchen, NJ Fastback 6T09C2435XX
Sauterne Gold Metallic, Lt. Ivy Gold Crinkle Vinyl and White Crinkle Vinyl, Pony Interior

Offline drummingrocks

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 10:20:08 AM »
From the OP's first post to this thread:

"I expect this thread to eventually be the "Go To" place for this issue on the entire web..." "...I will eventually post up pictures and video to help deal with this issue and help people resolve the problem without having to go to the Ford Dealer and Spend over $600 to get it fixed when their car is no longer under warranty. "


Maybe, as a reminder,  what needs mentioned first here is that this is a Concours site and repair work that doesn't "RESTORE" the vehicles isn't the primary focus of this forum. Repair work is repair work. Restoration work is restoration work. I believe the answer to one primary question should be asked before going into action, especially in "Restoration" work but even in "Repair Work" :

Please, let us see your work. As I have said before, for the right reasons, I will do shortcuts. But please also understand that I have learned the "fastest way" isn't always the "best way" and I believe before a person reading this post goes the "fast way", they should also fully understand & know the "correct" (or "by the book") way.

Richard

Richard, can I respectfully say that you've made your point. Ad nauseum.  The whole point of Tony's post was to explain what worked for him.  That's fine if you don't agree about his approach to solving the problem, but come on, don't derail the thread because of it.  Let it go.   :o 

Tony, I think your approach is excellent, and it's not a hack job in any way.  Thanks for documenting what worked for you.  You're working smarter, not harder, and there's no shame in that.

--1965 fastback, 289/4-spd, built Feb. '65 at Dearborn
--1965 convertible, 289/4-spd, built Mar. '65 at Dearborn
--1966 GT fastback, 289/4-spd, built Dec. '65 at Dearborn
--1966 coupe, 200/3-spd, built Dec. '65 at NJ (in the family since 1968)
--1967 coupe, 289/C4, built Dec. '66 at NJ
--2017 GT

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 12:34:14 PM »
Richard, can I respectfully say that you've made your point. Ad nauseum.  The whole point of Tony's post was to explain what worked for him.  That's fine if you don't agree about his approach to solving the problem, but come on, don't derail the thread because of it.  Let it go.   :o 


My Bad! I took out the mumbo-jumbo  :o that must have belabored my points. I simply do not think a 2.7 hr. job is all that difficult, and that's the book time. I was under the belief that this job would take two days or some stupid rediculous time like others I had done.

Now I kinda want to do one, just for the excersise...record it & TIME IT!  :D  :o

« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 12:53:16 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 11:10:11 PM »
"You're working smarter, not harder, and there's no shame in that."

+1 to that.

Here are the pics..  I am working on more as the project progresses...and video possibly..

I am glad to see that this thread is getting some serious heavy traction!  Try finding a good article on this issue anywhere on the web. There isn't one!  Up until now.. This is it!  I was shocked to see how long this issue has been out there (since 2005!) and how poor the coverage of it was (Really Poor!).  Well here we go.. Here are the pics.  Please, All comments and suggestions are welcomed!....and yes I know this is a "Concours" website.. Point well taken.  As mentioned above, This is a repair..and nothing more!  Maybe 10-20 years from now a better way will be found to repair/replace this actuator using special tools without having to rip out the entire dash, Until that time, This is what we are dealing with.  Please feel free to comment away..


Pic 1:  - This is what your S197 (2005-2009) dash will look like once you start tearing into things...(2010 may differ slightly obviously).  You have to remove the screws to the trim panel that holds the headlight switch assemblies first, then start removing any plastic panels in the way.



Pic 2:  - You have to remove the steering wheel in order to remove the top plastic column piece - Make sure that your battery is disconnected here to avoid any accidental Airbag Pre-detonation! On each side of the steering wheel column, there is a small plastic bolt cover, remove it from both sides and remove the bolts.  This enables you to remove the airbag, but leave the Airbag wires attached and just move it to the side (the airbag/horn assembly will slide away to the side while you are leaving it connected), Now you can take the steering wheel off by removing the center bolt.  Take out the center bolt and remove the steering wheel, but just balance the steering wheel with your legs (or on your legs) while the airbag is still attached. You'r only doing this for about two minutes...so don't fret.  With the steering wheel off, Now you can remove the next two pieces.  Lower the column as low as it can go by using the column adjustment pull lever below the column, Put the column down all the way as far as it can go.  Remove the top Black Plastic column trim piece.  Now remove the Dash Cluster trim Bezel behind it.You should now be looking at the bare dash cluster assembly.  It is held in by four small hex screws.  Remove them, and move the Dash Cluster bezel to the left side to get it out of the way.   What you are looking at now is the Bare Dash.  You've gotten everything out of the way, Now it's onto the problem child Actuator.  Look all the way to the far right behind the dash.  Use a flashlight.  You will see a Heater Plenum tube (ABOVE), a Dashboard Stability Metal Crush bar (Below), and the Heater Airflow Actuator and wire (to the very far right) - See the next 3 pics...  Also, The steering wheel here is not bolted on and "hanging by a thread" It's just sitting on its hex nub that the bolt - bolts into.  I had removed the bolt earlier..




Pic 3:




Pic 4:




Pic 5:

Here is a Close-Up View of the Upper Right Corner.   You can plainly see the Actuator that must be removed.  If you look hard enough, You can see the lower 8mm hex screw that holds in the center bottom portion of the actuator.  Get a 8mm socket and remove this screw.  Once that has been done, Now the actuator is ONLY held in by a 2nd corner screw ONLY now.  You can't get to the screw, so have fun trying.  I literally spent over an hour and used every 8mm tool known to man - You literally can't get in there with a 8mm socket because the damn upper Heater Plenum Plastic tube is slammed right onto the 2nd Top Hex Screw, and I finally figured that just breaking the corner of the actuator was really the best bet going to get this puppy out, so that's exactly what I did! (At least It was planned!..lol..), I just grabbed the actuator and slowly moved (rocked) it back and forth and at the same time, I removed the attached Plastic Actuator arm on the back of the Actuator from the slotted actuator latch located in the dash in the side of the heater plenum (piece of cake), and the corner of the Actuator purposely broke off and the actuator was now out in my hand...but the wiring was still attached so I had to remove that next.  There is a RED Plastic safety clip that holds in the plug. Get a small micro flat head screwdriver and back out the red clip slowly. Save the RED clip for later use. The plug will come out now and the actuator is now FREE!  HOORAH!   




Geez, Have you ever seen so much Surface Rust behind a dash on a 2007 car?? I think my '65 and '66 'verts have less.. LOL....and I baby this car..Well, Ok, I drive the tar out of it.. but I maintain it well, and it's got 79,000 miles on it...Not bad for a 2007.  Do you ever think that after 50+ years of Ford making Mustangs that they would ever use any kind of coatings on the bare metal behind the dash?? If they haven't by now,  Probably Not.  It might be something to bring up at the next Ford Board of Directors Meeting..lol... I'm betting that all the bare metal behind your S197 dash looks just like mine..  Take a look someday.. You may be shocked...lol..  Anyway Enough levity for now....

Getting back to the issue at hand..

The 2nd Top Hex Screw with the old broken corner piece of the actuator corner is still up there, but we'll get back to that in a moment.  Right now, Go to the web and/or your Ford Dealer and order the correct actuator!   See the pics below:


Pic 6: 

Front of New parts bag (Left)  and old broken Actuator (Right)..




Pic 7:

Rear of New parts bag (Left) and old broken Actuator (Right)..




Pic 8:

A Close-Up of the old broken Actuator (Purposely Broken off corner on Upper Right)..




Pic 9:

Another Close-Up of the old broken Actuator (Purposely Broken off corner on Upper Left now -Simply Filpped over with cover removed)..

Take a good look at the inside of the Actuator and you can now see why these things don't last.  Look at the White Nylon cog on the Uppermost left...See The missing Teeth??  It's stupid crap like this that gives car companies a bad name.  A 35 cent broken piece on a $40,000 car = lots of trouble that could have been avoided.   I would "assume" in the future that "Someone" - Scott Drake (AHEM!)...will probably come out with a light alloy cog replacement set to replace the cheap Nylon Plastic cogs that are in there.  The actuator is actually a Serviceable unit believe it or not!   See Pic Below..




Pic 10:  THE PLAN:

Ok, Well Now, Up to this point I've been winging it as I go..and so far so good!...No major issues...Yet...

The 2nd Top Hex Screw with the old broken corner piece of the actuator corner is still up there...Remember that??  Well, Now that the old Actuator is now gone, It's now time to remove that hard to get to nearly impossible (not kidding) 2nd Top Hex screw.  Even with the Actuator gone now, Because the damn Heater Plenum Tube is so wide and still in the way, There is literally NO WAY to get a small 8mm Socket with any type of extention in there.. Believe me, I tried...and tried..and even tried some more!..and I don't give up easy!  What I did gladly happen to notice though was I could get my thin closed loop 8mm wrench in there, and get it onto the hex screw, but I had absolutely NO THROW to move the wrench back and forth to remove/re-install the hard to get to 2nd Hex screw.  So What to do?? CREATE THE THROW.  Here is the plan bellow... What do you think??  Got a better idea??  I am all ears on this one..  I plan to get my Dremmel tool with cut-off wheel and Cut Along the dotted white lines below to Create the wrench throw that I need to complete the project.  As you can Plainly see, I'll have to lop-off the top right screw hole/nut that help secure the upper right corner of the dash cluster.  3 out of 4 screws ain't that bad I guess, but what I'll do is secure the existing hex screw that goes through the cluster with the cut off hole/nut for a complete uniform look...and from the front of the dash cluster...no one would even know a cut has been made...Well, That's the idea...  All comments Welcomed!  This is Currently a Free-Flowing process and is subject to change at any moment!  Suggestions???  See Pic! :




I was kicking this around as well to get the job done..by cutting a bit less..It's harder maneuverability with the wrench though..but might work OK as well.. I would remove the nut here as well, but put it back when it came time to button everything back up after the Actuator is installed... Thoughts?

Alternate CUT-PLAN "B" :




Also, After this "Behind the Dash" Airflow Actuator project has been completed, I will also get pics and info on the other remaining A/C Actuators underneath and Behind the Glovebox to round-out and "Complete" this thread.  The "Behind the Dash" Airflow Actuator is obviously the hardest to get at Actuator out of all of them.  The others are hard, but not that hard.  We'll cover those much later..


More To Come!

Stay Tuned!

:o)

Tony K.




« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 01:40:43 PM by NEFaurora »
Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
MCA#70001

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 06:57:34 AM »
Without trying to derail the thread (again?), here are some images and instructions from the 2005 Mustang Ford service manual (12/04 edition, should be similar for '05-'09), images that can help assist any reader in choosing their own battle of gaining access to that screw. I included all of the dash removal procedures too, (again, not to derail the thread) to show the alternative "by the book" method. Keep in mind that the complete REMOVAL of the dash is over-stated, it would appear you only need to loosen and move the dash away about an inch or two back, leaving most of the wiring and such attached.

It bolls down to this: All anybody really needs is to gain access to that hidden screw so the choice is to either:

1.) cut the dash as pictured -or-

2.)  loosen & move the dash backwards an inch or two.

3.) (unkown if these will work or not) locate or buy/borrow a tool that can possibly get to the hidden screw, such as: (not saying these will do the trick...but they often have for me on such jobs like this)
https://store.snapon.com/Shallow-Universal-mm-chrome-Socket-Metric-Universal-Shallow-8-mm-6-Point-P642258.aspx
https://store.snapon.com/Magnetic-Adaptors-Adaptor-Magnetic-1-4-Internal-drive-1-17-32--P631046.aspx
NOTE: the magnetic adapter is a nice PLUS, but not required in most instances. It does help hold onto the tiny screws from falling off into nowhere-to-be-found somewhere in the dash. (it magnetizes the socket)


3.) Still looking for other ideas
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 05:15:27 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Deuce

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 12:58:56 PM »
This is thread is evolving to an impressive resource, rich with information and photos!  Thanks for the contributions.

I guess we all assume the blend door actuators in our 2005-2009 cars will fail eventually?  I wonder if there are preventative techniques to extend service life.   
Deuce
1967 C-code Hardtop, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; SJ Nov 30 1966, DSO 71
2008 Premium GT Coupe, 5-spd, spoiler delete, HID, Nov 2007

Offline WT8095

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2015, 01:26:52 PM »
I wonder if there are preventative techniques to extend service life.   

Roll the windows down?   ::)  ;D
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.

Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2015, 01:50:44 PM »
"I guess we all assume the blend door actuators in our 2005-2009 cars will fail eventually?"

You can bank on it.

Their average service life is only about 4-5 years.. if that..  Some people have had them go at 2-3 years.  If they last any longer... It's blind luck!

PS: You can forget trying to use those Snap-On attachments.. I have both of them, and they didn't work.  The problem is that you can't get them in there because the Heater Plenum is in the way and puts so much pressure on the socket, that it just knocks it out, but you CAN get the wrench in there so that it will stay which is good enough.


:o)

Tony K.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:22:47 PM by NEFaurora »
Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
MCA#70001

Offline rodster

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2015, 12:42:17 AM »
Seems the dealerships must be swamped with these repair  jobs?  ???
1965 Dearborn Mustang Coupe
Raven Black - Palomino Pony
1967 Dearborn Mustang Conv.
Wimbeldon White - Red
1984 SVO - 2A

Offline NEFaurora

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2015, 03:56:52 AM »

"Seems the dealerships must be swamped with these repair  jobs?"

The going rate at the Ford Dealers for this above repair job behind the dash is $600 for the repair and parts.  Most people balk at the price and just live with the problem/noise.

:o)

Tony K.
Tony Kovar (NEFaurora@aol.com)
1965 Mustang Convertible 200 cid 3spd manual
1966 Mustang Convertible Sprint 200 C4 Auto
2007 Mustang Convertible V6 Auto with "Pony Package".
1966 Mustang Sprint 200 Registry Owner/Moderator
MCA#70001

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2015, 05:20:25 AM »
"

PS: You can forget trying to use those Snap-On attachments.. I have both of them, and they didn't work.  The problem is that you can't get them in there because the Heater Plenum is in the way and puts so much pressure on the socket, that it just knocks it out, but you CAN get the wrench in there so that it will stay which is good enough.
:

I gave the previos post an update to reflect this response
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Deuce

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Re: 2005-2009 Blend Door Actuator "Clicking Noise" A/C Heater Problem.
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2015, 10:31:38 AM »
2008 GT, 145K miles

What we're learning is that the weak plastic gears strip inside the actuator mechanism and cause the failure.  If the cycling of the actuator is minimized, that would seem to be a preventative technique. 

Living in mild CA climate, for example I really don't change internal cab cold/heat settings too often.  I usually run fan setting on low / #1; while temperature selector dial and vent settings aren't adjusted that often.  Just a thought...

 
Deuce
1967 C-code Hardtop, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; SJ Nov 30 1966, DSO 71
2008 Premium GT Coupe, 5-spd, spoiler delete, HID, Nov 2007