Author Topic: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National  (Read 1769 times)

Offline 92LX

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79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« on: June 08, 2015, 01:42:06 PM »
b:  Battery: Must be correct group and size Motorcraft battery for year and model. 2 point
deduction for incorrect group in Concours classes. Must be original in Unrestored &
Thoroughbred classes or 6 point deduction. 6 point deduction for non-Motorcraft
battery, no exceptions...................................................................................6
Quality of Workmanship, condition and cleanliness............................................2

Using these MCA rules, Do you think using these rules,, someone showing in Concours Driven
at a MCA National should lose all 6 points for having a Motorcraft Battery-BCT-58, group 24 , size L. 10.25 x W. 6.81
X H. 8.87.Which is correct group and size. Which is the Ford Motorcraft replacement battery. Keep in mind this is Concours Driven NOT Unrestored.
What do you think?

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2015, 02:13:35 PM »
b:  Battery: Must be correct group and size Motorcraft battery for year and model.
2 point deduction for incorrect group in Concours classes.
Must be original in Unrestored & Thoroughbred classes or 6 point deduction.
6 point deduction for non-Motorcraft battery, no exceptions..................................................................................6


Do you think using these rules,, someone showing in Concours Driven at a MCA National should lose all 6 points for having a Motorcraft Battery-BCT-58, group 24 , size L. 10.25 x W. 6.81 X H. 8.87.Which is correct group and size. Which is the Ford Motorcraft replacement battery. Keep in mind this is Concours Driven NOT Unrestored

First must say that I'm unsure what guidance or oversight the late model rules have received to assure consistence across all years and models. Don't understand the logic in the Mandatory -6 for a non-Motorcraft battery since an owner might have a battery with the correct group, size and even color which IMHO should be given some credit over another that is less correct.  There by rewarding the effort made.

Don't believe the rules state that you would loose 6 points automatically.  When we were teaching how to apply the rules when there was no automatic or required deductions weighted values of what was there were applied.

Group, size look, brand, post locations..... can all be used to determine/help the judges figure out how many points to deduct on a given car.

Do they have a battery?  If not -6. Sounds silly until you get a car in your class with no (for this example) battery. If you've taken all 6 points for just an incorrect one you have no way left to reward the owner who has a battery over one without that part. And yes over 40 years of judging sometimes the part just isn't there.  :o

So is it the same group?   If not - 2 to start  Doesn't seem to apply in your scenario

With your description I would think you should have been allowed to keep at least half the points if not a little more (as you have presented the subject)

The fact that it was Ford's replacement means little IMHO in a concours class since replaced - is replaced.

Bottom line at this point is that I hope and it possibly was just a mistake and you should see if you can get it corrected or at least clarified before you show again. Not sure if it would make a difference in the sward - if that is your goal.  Contact the Assistant Head Judge for that class and explain the issue - can't be fix here

Just my opinion
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 92LX

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Re: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 03:13:41 PM »
Thanks Jeff!
It just seems odd( if I understood the rules) to lose all the points,, if any.
I was to believe Concours could have replacement parts as long as they met fit and finish.
Thanks Just had to ask.
No it would not change the outcome of the award,, Just striving to have a Great car by following the rules and repairing/replacing what is deducted on my judging sheet from show to show.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 03:21:59 PM by 92LX »

Offline carlite65

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Re: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 03:28:44 PM »
"I was to believe Concours could have replacement parts as long as they met fit and finish."   

you left out one important aspect. appearance. lots of service/repro parts do not quite meet that criteria. sounds like more common sense should have prevailed.
5F09C331248

Offline bluemax

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Re: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 06:02:15 PM »
Right or Wrong... in the past (last several years), I have had -2 point deduction for a Motorcraft battery, but the wrong "group/size". Unfortunately, Ford doesn't offer my Group anymore and of course we are not blessed with a "correct" reproduction.

So, I found an original Motorcraft battery that I carry to shows and swap out for judging. 2 points is 2 points! At least I do install it in the car....I have seen people simply place it next to the car....  :D

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 07:14:35 PM »
...... Just striving to have a Great car by following the rules and repairing/replacing what is deducted on my judging sheet from show to show.

You should be commended IMHO for that state of mind. Always build your car to the way it was originally and the rules as well as the awards should reward you.  Not as a focus of the effort just a confirmation of great work and dedication.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline caspian65

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Re: 79- 93 Mustang Concours Driven MCA National
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 07:36:08 PM »
Based on what I saw on the MCA website, the rules for 3rd gen (79-93) were reverted back to verbiage/points as they were before they were updated for consistency with all the other generation cars (including 4th gen at the time).

Seems to be that those in charge of the later generation rules do not want their rules/sheets to be consistent with other generation cars.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
Concours Mustang Forum Admin