Author Topic: Concours Rules  (Read 3977 times)

Offline 66RavenGTCoupe

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Concours Rules
« on: July 11, 2015, 03:09:49 AM »
Is there anywhere on here where I can see the rules relating to finishes?
66 Metuchen, NJ  GT Coupe
Raven, Deluxe Black Int
6T07A1612##
BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  TRANS
    65B     A      66           02M     22          1     6
Buck Tag:
C/O  362  (Customer Order, Rotation Number)
5    M7 (Weld Bay 5, Bucked Dec 7)
PIO (Performance Image Option - GT)

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2015, 05:20:48 AM »
For what club, show or organization?

"Rules related to finishes" are you looking for a list of what each piece is/was finished on a car or a list of finishes that describe what the finish is, how its produced and what its called or how finishes should be presented? Example "bare metal may be painted to duplicate the original look thorugh the usage of paint or other processes"

Willing to help just need some more information and clarity ;)
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 66RavenGTCoupe

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2015, 06:26:58 AM »
Thanks for the response Jeff.
Not for any club or anything. Just would like a reference to finishes similar to  K.A Helm's Mustang detailing guide.
Is there anything around like that  that is possibly more detailed, recent and concise?
66 Metuchen, NJ  GT Coupe
Raven, Deluxe Black Int
6T07A1612##
BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  TRANS
    65B     A      66           02M     22          1     6
Buck Tag:
C/O  362  (Customer Order, Rotation Number)
5    M7 (Weld Bay 5, Bucked Dec 7)
PIO (Performance Image Option - GT)

Offline caspian65

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2015, 10:21:56 AM »
I'm not aware of an up to date concours detailing guide.  To cover every single detail through even one model year with 3 assembly plants would be 100's of pages, if not 1,000's of pages long.

It's better to use resources like this website (remember to use search) where a high percentage of details have already been discussed and reasonably current feedback provided.  I'd say just by searching previous topics here, you can get answers for the majority of your questions.

While using this site, you'll notice there is emphasis placed on when/where a particular car was built.  If one does not pay attention to the differences between assembly plants, it's easy to get in trouble pretty quick with wrong detailing.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
Concours Mustang Forum Admin

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 02:52:17 PM »
Agree with Charles - good solid forums are much  better than a printed guide. Always seem to me that it was funny that the older generation felt if it was put down  on paper and published somehow if was more correct or true ;) In this case is IMHO far from true and any good forum today should run rings around the source mentioned  but many will follow it just because it's "easy"

As mentioned before in those threads of "why isn't there a nice easy list of all of the details"  its because we continue to find out more and more and few in the past focused on all the differences. The only attempt that has not been focused on a particular model or engine never made it into print (have a copy of a draft) I'm aware of is over 3 inches thick- does not include the differences between the plants or suppliers, covered one year and only covered items in the engine compartment (non-engine related items and details)

Been approached many times over the years about these sorts of projects and found that they would require me to drop all else and focus on a single area of the hobby. Then once in print I would only be frustrated that it didn't include everything or was out of date  before it ever went to print

These products always start with an owner or hobbyist filling a need or passion for their own use and it grows from there.
There is always the balance between easy and good.  Normally easy isn't so good ;)
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 66RavenGTCoupe

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 08:17:51 PM »
There is always the balance between easy and good.  Normally easy isn't so good ;)
Love it Jeff!
Thanks Charles.
Fair enough too! Looks like this forum is my new best friend!  ;D
66 Metuchen, NJ  GT Coupe
Raven, Deluxe Black Int
6T07A1612##
BODY  COLOR   TRIM    DATE   DSO   AXLE  TRANS
    65B     A      66           02M     22          1     6
Buck Tag:
C/O  362  (Customer Order, Rotation Number)
5    M7 (Weld Bay 5, Bucked Dec 7)
PIO (Performance Image Option - GT)

Offline Herman

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 10:56:55 PM »
Looks like this forum is my new best friend!  ;D

Don't forget you can ask a few of us at a club meeting/event or contact the MOCA Vic head judge.

Herman
Washing, polishing and cleaning stuff some more in an attempt to retain that 'Golden nugget'

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2015, 07:33:30 PM »
Don't forget you can ask a few of us at a club meeting/event or contact the MOCA Vic head judge.

Great point - if your showing in OZ you'll want to be informed as to how they will judge and what is expected. Not sure where they are in the evolution of rules and understanding or how the rules are choosen
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline tim_morrison82

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2015, 01:03:11 PM »
The aussie rules are on the moca website. Www.moca.org.au

You can get away with more in Australia, although rules are changing. I think you have to provide marti reports for some classes these days. You could previously put any option offered that year into your car regardless of it being ordered from the factory.
San Jose built (Mid Dec 67) Non GT J code Coupe.
Wimbledon White with Parchment Bench seat,
Visibility Group, Power Steering, Power Disc Brakes, Selectaire Conditioner, AM radio, Heavy Duty suspension, Deluxe Belts, Deluxe Wheel Covers, 3.00:1 rear.

Unique 1 of 1 car. Just like every other car...

Offline outlawincorporated

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 01:10:51 PM »
REPRODUCTION IS KING.  who wrote that.

in all seriousness still needs a big overhaul on the present rules, regulations, classes and qualifications JEFF.

Worked with Sean on trying to get some some changes through but have been meet with crossed arms and a lack of responsibility to make anything significant change wise.

The recent visits on both Charles Turner and Mike Murray here in Australia for a State and National Show caused a ripple effect on some levels but the lack of knowledge and interest is keeping the concours movement stagnant here. many people classifyy concours as a eleatist group reserved for only the wealthy and high priced vehicles. aka Boss Shelbys. (which shouldn't be the case)

Originality is extremely low on the radar...  but I will keep plugging away at it.
You know me well enough

regards.

PHILL BERESFORD,
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
ITS ONLY EVER ORIGINAL ONCE!!!!!

MCA GOLD CARD JUDGE 1ST GENERATION.  MCA #68589

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2015, 03:50:24 PM »
Eventually you run out of "original" parts. Then what?
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 06:05:26 PM »
Eventually you run out of "original" parts. Then what?

If things work out well manufacturers realize the need in time and produce good replacements (since most of the classes accept good reproductions)

Think Phill is possibly referring to the old practice of allowing what ever is available or best available at the moment which only costs the owners more over time, makes the parts houses more money but does not make the cars look closer to what they were originally.  Just a revolving door where the owner and the hobby doesn't not benefit IMHO

Now Div I and Throughbred are a different animal. But its not like there are many of those cars in OZ

If can get better but either the people in charge or the owners need to make the choice.  It can only be helped by documenting, researching and pointing out what was original on a world wide basis.

Hey - sounds like a good idea for a web site  ::) 
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2015, 07:37:14 PM »
If things work out well manufacturers realize the need in time and produce good replacements -
We do not have a direct link to manufacturers, only thru the retail sellers. Virginia Classic and NPD are represented on this forum and I have commented to both about parts and parts quality. I don't know what they convey to their sources (I assume there are parts distributors in the supply chain as well as a manufacturer) but top quality costs and the manufactures are more interested in volume sales. That's a fact of any manufacturer.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2015, 08:00:54 PM »
We do not have a direct link to manufacturers, only thru the retail sellers. Virginia Classic and NPD are represented on this forum and I have commented to both about parts and parts quality. I don't know what they convey to their sources (I assume there are parts distributors in the supply chain as well as a manufacturer) but top quality costs and the manufactures are more interested in volume sales. That's a fact of any manufacturer.

Guess it would have been best to use another term that manufacturer - instead a term that would represent the company having the parts made and setting those expectations and standards. Its those people who make the choice and those are the people that we have a direct connect to in many examples. In others the market can influence.

Progress is not always a straight line and we have to be happy about success when any ground is gained.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline WT8095

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Re: Concours Rules
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2015, 10:01:23 PM »
...top quality costs and the manufactures are more interested in volume sales. That's a fact of any manufacturer.

That may be true for many, if not most of them. But there's a few out there like Scott fuller and Jack Brooks (Dead Nuts On) that clearly put quality and accuracy ahead of any other considerations. When I started in this hobby 30 years ago, I was amazed at the parts that were available for 20+ year old Mustangs. And I'm even more amazed that now we have EVEN MORE parts being reproduced, some of which are even higher quality. The trick is knowing who is doing a good job and who isn't, and that's where we have another tool at our disposal that wasn't around 30 years ago - this forum (and the internet in general).
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.