Author Topic: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery  (Read 12100 times)

Offline Bob Gaines

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65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« on: August 09, 2015, 03:13:34 PM »
There has been a lot of attention in recent years for a correct reproduction of the 65-67 Autolite battery . The current reproduction battery is modeled after the 68/69 and early 1970 battery. The current battery is used for 65-67 because nothing else is available. I and others have been fighting this battle for education on the usage and identification issue for many years now.  The question that is most often brought up is "why doesn't someone make one" . It has come to my attention that behind the scenes Scott Drake was interested in moving forward with just that and was not apposed to making both the group 24 with it's unique top as well as the elusive rare as hens teeth group 22 with the same top. Scott Drake was trying to rationalize the large expenditure and all that was needed to get the ball rolling was a blessing by MCA . The project was brought to a grinding halt when a high level concours official of the largest Mustang club in the world said that "they" (battery in question) was not needed.  :o #$%*@ . Well that basically kills that project . It is a catch 22 . If we can't get the MCA on board with recognizing the need for a correct replacement battery we can't get the after market on board with investing the many 10's of thousands (some say closer to 100,000.00) into a different reproduction battery project.  I would recommend changing the rules to allow for deductions for a incorrect size and or type of battery otherwise there will not be any incentive for a after market company to make one. This can't happen without support from others. That is my soap box statement.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline ruppstang

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 03:25:30 PM »
Well said Bob I'll climb up on that soap box with you. To others of you that feel this way be sure to attend the MCA judges meeting right after the Grand National in Columbus OH., or at the very least express your sentiments to a national head or assistant head judge before the meeting. Even if it is not passed I intend to make notes on judge sheets when I see a incorrect battery used.
Marty

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 03:38:35 PM »
amen to you both for taking up this cause. i have brought this up many times to deaf ears. btw i know who that 'official' is. he lost some of my respect when i found out. i too have been trying to educate owners going so far as to show them a pic of the correct item. most owners are interested in making their cars better. and to do that we need to reward those who do and not those who don't. the current repro battery has been on the market so long that some folks do not realize it is not correct. also some of the parts vendors need to be encouraged to reword their ads to reflect the correctness of the item(s) being sold.
5F09C331248

Offline Skyway65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 04:01:41 PM »
Can anyone offer any pictures of what an original group 22 assembly line battery actually looks like compared to the currently available repro group 24 batteries?  I can't say that I've seen an original--what are the differences?  TIA
Gary Schweitzer
MCA #181
Traverse City, MI

"A work of art in the form of a Mustang"

Offline preaction

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2015, 05:12:16 PM »
A petition maybe ? I would sign it.
8R02S125064- January 6 1968  SJ   7F93S591808 - April 28 1967  Dearborn   7F91S544039 - December 17 1966 Dearborn

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2015, 06:46:01 PM »
As we've attempted in the past I believe that a minimal deduction should be taken for the non-factory looking battery if for no other reason than consistency across the board. We don't/didn't do that with tires, exhaust,  some steering wheels, ........ Just been a hold back from the 80's that some resist to change

Currently everyone is on the same level playing field with the availability (well pretty much) and the small deduction would rarely make the difference in the final award or any car but would likely IMHO motivate owners to purchase a "correct" battery if one was made available. Would support this again

Can anyone offer any pictures of what an original group 22 assembly line battery actually looks like compared to the currently available repro group 24 batteries?  I can't say that I've seen an original--what are the differences?  TIA

Battery being discussed. Should be able to see the differences at 20 feet away ;)

« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 06:51:56 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Murf

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2015, 06:52:52 PM »
Bob, a pat on the back to you for bringing up this subject.  Some of the "older" folks in the MCA have campaigned for this change for decades with no results.  I know how frustrating it is to see the EASY path as the correct path, and even though most of those on this forum were/are glad to see the current reproduction we also have wanted a correct group 22 to become available.  I hope that Scott Drake will reconsider his decision and am suggesting that we (those on this forum) mount an effort to contact the MCA head judge with our wishes and make sure we send a copy our plea to the Drake Company.  I know that letters were once introduced at the annual judges meeting and careful consideration was given to those suggestions even though the author could not attend. If this is still the practice perhaps we should take up this cause while at the same time pointing out to those attending each show hereafter the incorrectness of the group 24 in the early cars and the fact that the correct part may/could  become available if the MCA decrees that is what is required.  Some of the 65 - 66 may have had the group 24 (those with Air conditioning for instance) so perhaps that should be discussed here in a separate thread.  Just a suggestion so kick it around and lets see what  response this subject gets here with the hardcore base of the MCA and  if there actually is support for such a campaign.  Lets hear some opinions and get the ball rolling and see what we can make happen!
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2015, 07:04:52 PM »
As we've attempted in the past I believe that a minimal deduction should be taken for the non-factory looking battery if for no other reason than consistency across the board. We don't/didn't do that with tires, exhaust,  some steering wheels, ........ Just been a hold back from the 80's that some resist to change

Currently everyone is on the same level playing field with the availability (well pretty much) and the small deduction would rarely make the difference in the final award or any car but would likely IMHO motivate owners to purchase a "correct" battery if one was made available. Would support this again

Battery being discussed. Should be able to see the differences at 20 feet away ;)

jeff, what is the difference in the battery in your pic and the one i show here??
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 08:27:51 PM by J_Speegle »
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2015, 07:25:26 PM »
Well said John - It wasn't long ago when MCA was us and the decisions were just not made at the top, at least the assistants were polled. I think that this at least provided a wider overall view to base decisions on. Was disappointed then that changed

Starting the conversation to collect support or even better ideas ahead of time is IMHO a good way to show individual support for the idea and change. It would be great if conversations took place all the time about changes and improvements - not just left for a day at some hotel once a year. Know we use to do this with the Shelby classes.

Off my soap box ;)

jeff, what is the difference in the battery in your pic and the one i show here??

From my understanding (someone please clarify/correct/ amend as needed)  there were difference "levels" of service replacements and batterys used. They were "marked" for easy identification by the caps (green, yellow and red). Believe each had a different length of warranty. Sure there is a brochure or manual around on my shelf somewhere that spells out the differences. Just where ??

Looking at original engine compartment pictures of 66 and 67 Ford vehicles I see both red (with highlighted AUTOLITE) and yellow caps (without highlighting)

Honestly not something I have spent a ton of time on. 
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2015, 07:28:44 PM »
i posed that question because i was told that yellow cap battery was an absolute original assembly line battery. i have no reason to doubt the person who related that fact. so this begs another question, just which battery style should be be hoping for??
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Offline WT8095

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2015, 07:43:13 PM »
i posed that question because i was told that yellow cap battery was an absolute original assembly line battery. i have no reason to doubt the person who related that fact. so this begs another question, just which battery style should be be hoping for??

If the yellow & red caps are physically identical other than the color, then they can be produced from the same mold simply by using different color plastic. The majority of the cost is going to be the mold - if the original is available, it may need refurbishing. A new mold from scratch will run thousands of dollars. There is some cost to retailers to stock both colors, but that should not be terribly high. In short, I expect that if we get one, we'll get both.

Of course, if the cases are different, you're talking BIG $$$ if new molds are needed. That may limit it to one or the other. Depends on demand, of course.
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.

Offline WT8095

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2015, 07:48:33 PM »
FYI there's an NOS one on ebay right now - buy-it-now for $2,500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1965-71-Autolite-Group-22-Series-Red-Lettered-Battery-Ford-Mustang-/201005786916?hash=item2ecce0e724&vxp=mtr

Not my auction. Seller is from Juneau, WI. Sounds familiar...  ::)
Dave Z.

'68 fastback, S-code + C6. Special Paint (Rainbow promotion), DSO 710784. Actual build date 2/7/1968, San Jose.
'69 Cougar convertible, 351W-2V + FMX, Meadowlark Yellow.

Offline Murf

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2015, 07:48:44 PM »
Fred, you make a good point!  And yes, the color of the caps indicated the service life of the battery.  I am pretty certain that the green capped battery was the common battery sold as a replacement by your local Ford dealer.  The red and yellow during the time of the 64,65 and 66 cars I am not sure about but someone will certainly chime in with the answer.  If we make a concentrated effort to have this battery reproduced we need to get our "stuff" together on which cars used the 22F and which battery we recognize as correct.  The Henry Ford museum lists  three batteries as used in the Mustang, but one says only "TAXI" and we know there were no officially designated Ford Motor Company Mustang taxi cabs.  Provided is a link to the Henry Ford which probably make this muddy . https://www.thehenryford.org/exhibits/showroom/1965/specs.html
John Murphy

1965 "K" GT fastback Honey Gold exterior, Ivy Green and White Pony interior, many options
1966 Conv., high option, removeable hardtop, thermactor "C" engine, AC, Springtime Yellow exterior, Black Pony interior
1968 California Special, "J" code, ,many options, white with red interior

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2015, 08:18:32 PM »
Sure they have gotten it figured out since this is not a new subject. As far as replacements I believe all three were used (cap colors) in the service replacements since we've found them NOS in boxes over the years. Just seems that allot of red caps were found found over the years, in comparison to the others, possibly since they were more expensive of the three so buyers choose the more affordable options when it came to replacing the battery, leaving the more expensive ones on the shelf. Only seen one yellow cap in the box and no green cap early batteries that I can recall or have pictures of

The red cap and writing example I posted does/did have a 1966 date on the case. In 67 have original pictures with yellow and red caps - without the highlighted AUTOLITE
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 10:26:28 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Richard P.

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Re: 65-67 style assemblyline Autolite battery
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2015, 09:48:14 PM »
If the yellow & red caps are physically identical other than the color, then they can be produced from the same mold simply by using different color plastic. The majority of the cost is going to be the mold - if the original is available, it may need refurbishing. A new mold from scratch will run thousands of dollars. There is some cost to retailers to stock both colors, but that should not be terribly high. In short, I expect that if we get one, we'll get both.

Of course, if the cases are different, you're talking BIG $$$ if new molds are needed. That may limit it to one or the other. Depends on demand, of course.
The NOS battery listed on e-bay appears exactly like the one being reproduced now except it's a group 22 red cap. What did the group 24 battery of that time period look like? Was Ford using the red battery caps on the group 24 battery. I have a J