Author Topic: MCA concours car description  (Read 3756 times)

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: MCA concours car description
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2016, 01:37:03 AM »
Just throwing it out there initially for conversation... I have two examples (one with my own car) where there may be an issue with what is contained on the Marti report and what came from the factory. In both cases, they are '71 429cj cars, my convertible and a coupe. Both cars show as options, "bumper guards" and both cars show no evidence of these having ever been installed. My factory invoice (Lois E. report) does not show this "bumper guard" option... The coupe was one of K. Fryer's recent '71's he sold at the Indy mecum auction and was supposedly an all original car, again, no bumper guards evident, but the Marti report indicated them as having been optioned to the car.

I will contact him at some point in time to see if he will reissue the report for my car, but it made me wonder when I came across this thread, if there is other reports out there with possible questions.

When I first got my report, I went out and purchased NOS guards and then had major doubts when the factory invoice arrived a while later. I don't believe these were ever installed on my car and if the Fryer car was a as advertised in his documentation, they were not installed on that car either. 

I like the idea of providing documentation to validate a car during judging, just hope that it is accurate initially to avoid upsetting people.
FYI, I was at the Indy auction and all of the K.Fryer cars I saw had been previously restored so they could hardly be used as a untouched originality yardstick. Although nice none of the cars were restored to a very high level of concours restoration ether.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline ruppstang

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Re: MCA concours car description
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2016, 09:34:53 AM »
Here's what I would recommend to MCA (only for 67 on up):
Any car entered into Concours and higher classes must have a Marti Report for the standard entrance fee, or for $15 more, the car can be entered and MCA would query the Marti database on the show days for pertinent information and provided to the judges.  Now then, MCA would have to arrange with Kevin Marti for access to his database that would be restricted to MCA Show Officials and shared with the owner at the start of judging.  That report would not be provided to the owner to keep or to copy. 

Would Kevin do this?  Perhaps, if the fee was reasonable to both parties.  The extra entrance cost would help offset the cost to MCA. 

What do y'all think?

Yes it looks like solution that could work but looking at it from the perspective of someone who works in the tally room and lives with MCA national show secretary it would cause a lot of extra work.

IMHO most that have concours cars have a Marti report and if they do not have one the $18 for the basic report should not be that significant after spending $$$$ on the car and restoration.

Offline Laurie S.

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Re: MCA concours car description
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2016, 02:29:21 PM »
As the original owner of my 1968 coupe, I fully support requiring a Marti report for the 67+ concours classes.  And, I am against allowing over the counter dealer add ons, unless there is proof it was purchased and installed when the car originally was bought from the dealer, not a second hand party.  And, nothing irritates me more than someone who changes a car, then changes the data plate.  It is fraud, pure and simple.


Murphy, 1968 Coupe - Concours, Original Owner
Trouble, 1968 Fastback - Modified

MCA Gold Card Judge, 67-68 Concours
MCA Gold Card Judge, Modified - All Years

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mac1971

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Re: MCA concours car description
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2016, 04:28:35 PM »
FYI, I was at the Indy auction and all of the K.Fryer cars I saw had been previously restored so they could hardly be used as a untouched originality yardstick. Although nice none of the cars were restored to a very high level of concours restoration ether.

I was there also FYI. I drove hundreds of miles specifically to review the Pastel Blue 429 car in its entirety. Unfortunately, your response doesn't address my query at all, not sure what your point is, maybe just to stir things up? The Pastel Blue coupe was probably the most original of the 6 cars he had their to sell and the bumpers on that car looked pretty close too and more than likely, were original... It had not been restored, maintained; yes, but not restored. More than likely your area of expertise does not include the '71-3's, so I am unsure how to take your viewpoint in relation to my query. I will get to the bottom of it myself. Thanks

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: MCA concours car description
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2016, 05:09:28 PM »
Yes it looks like solution that could work but looking at it from the perspective of someone who works in the tally room and lives with MCA national show secretary it would cause a lot of extra work.

Since we close entries early and don't allow cars the day or week of the show I would think the process could be handled prior to the even. Something like

A page with the VIN and details printed out and attached to the judging forms. Judges simply (as part of page one of the judging sheets) confirm or uncover the differences and notate them

Agree this would add two additional steps to the process. One at least for the tally room - identifying and attaching the specific sheet when you label the sheet for a particular car.


I was there also FYI. I drove hundreds of miles specifically to review the Pastel Blue 429 car in its entirety. Unfortunately, your response doesn't address my query at all, not sure what your point is, maybe just to stir things up? The Pastel Blue coupe was probably the most original of the 6 cars he had their to sell ............

Have viewed these cars in the past I think that your both referring to different cars and that is why your observations are different.  I would agree that the pastel blue car was the most untouched of the group for many years it spent its time under a car cover in his garage so few got to see it when we held judging events there and fewer people saw it IMHO because of this.  I know I crawled under it a couple years back when we were judging the Mid-America Concours cars there

As always rules are established for the typical and normally built cars so that 98% or so of what we see are dealt with fairly and consistently. We have always allowed the owner to provide proof of extraordinary situations - that is why I started to use the introduction "script" and that opportunity for the owner to share their claims and findings before judging starts.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline ruppstang

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Re: MCA concours car description
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2016, 09:31:14 AM »
Since we close entries early and don't allow cars the day or week of the show I would think the process could be handled prior to the even. Something like

A page with the VIN and details printed out and attached to the judging forms. Judges simply (as part of page one of the judging sheets) confirm or uncover the differences and notate them

Agree this would add two additional steps to the process. One at least for the tally room - identifying and attaching the specific sheet when you label the sheet for a particular car.
We are very busy two weeks preceding a MCA national show. The final numbers from registration to have judge sheets for each class gathered and packed to ship with the rest of the tally room supply's one week before the show.
To have to email Marti Auto and then print and organize them with the proper sheets would add to the work load and open the door for additional errors both pre show and during the tally process.

IMHO it would be better to just have the participants provide them or they get a predetermined deduction if they do not have the report.

Some day when we use tablets for judging it would be much easier to attach the Marti report to the judge sheet so it automatically shows up when that cars VIN is entered. At that point I think it would also be helpful to have past judge sheets for that car available for the judges to look at.

I do not know how the latter generation concours  judges will be able to operate with out a Marti report on the newer models with the dozens of tire/wheel combinations, not to mention all of the aftermarket kits that are offered and some of them by Ford as well.

It is important that those that feel strongly about the use of the Marti reports communicate it to the MCA head judges and MCA leadership otherwise this ship will never sail.

Marti reports would be great at this point but I would just be happy to get the undocumented dealer installed equipment under control for now.