Author Topic: source for 67 oval rubber plugs  (Read 1549 times)

Offline OldMustangGuy

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2017, 11:38:04 PM »
Quote
You would have to specify  (narrow down) what plant your interested in for a good guess or time period when the change over took place

Jeff- my interest would be for a January 68 New Jersey car.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2017, 12:28:13 AM »
John : I assume (?) that we're talking about page N7-8105- of the Body Assembly Manual, correct ? Well, here is a wrench I'll throw in. My page is Dated 12/15/66, and has the note "Supersedes 11/10/66", and shows the "square hole ".  Yours was built 5 days after that Revision at San Jose, and mine a month and a half later in Dearborn, yet both of ours have the oval holes ??

Since the drawings only have (well in most cases) when they were submitted they are not implemention  dates ;)
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 196667Bob

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2017, 01:04:59 AM »
I am confused. Is the reference about oval and square hole or the rubber plug ?

I hardly see how one could talk about the rubber plugs without talking about the holes that they go into, particularly when talking about the ones in the front radiator support. While a round plug can fit into an oval or square hole, the oval plug cannot fit into the square hole.

From what I have seen the same oval rubber plug is used whether installed in the oval hole or squared off hole in the radiator support.

Based on the pictures that both Jeff and John Posted, in particular John's with the duct tape behind the square hole, it appears to me, at least for '67's, that the square hole is a completely different stamping, not a modified oval hole. The width of the square hole does not appear adequate to accept the oval plug in question.

Additionally, the question was raised as to when the change from the oval hole (and plug) changed to the square hole (and round plug). As you noted, and Jeff's and John's pictures seem to support, the hole change appears to have occurred approximately mid-year. Yet how does one explain the square hole being shown in the 1966 copy from the Body Assembly Manual ? That was my point.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67

Offline stangerdude

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2017, 03:37:07 PM »
 OK, so my experience in restoring the cars that had these plugs is the following. Yes oval plug in square hole. Don't know why but that is the way it was done! Early 67's with oval slot in radiator support did not have a plug installed. When Ford changed the radiator support to the square hole ( for the Cougar headlight assembly mounting, I have also restored a few cougars and this is what the holes are for) they installed the oval plugs but only for a certain length of time. I guess the decided to save money and delete the plug since it really did not do anything. Very late 67's did not have the plug and I have never seen a 68 with the plugs.
  As far as I  know this plug has not been reproduced however Daniel carpenter states to use plug number 376966 in the radiator support as a substitute as the 378770 oval plug is too large to fit the hole. Now with that being said......99% of the 67's that I have seen with this plug have all been San Jose cars (as most cars I work on are since the San Jose /Milpitas plant is only 10 miles away) so I don't know if that makes a difference. I hope this helps a little and does not confuse it more!!

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2017, 04:46:54 PM »
Well, obviously, this is one of those items that, at least so far, we cannot draw conclusions about, as there seems to be no rhyme or reason.

Therefore, all I can attest to is that my January 31, 1967, Dearborn built 1967 Convertible has both the oval holes (pictures attached) and the oval plugs in the top oval holes (pictures of the plugs previously Posted), installed from the front, towards the back.

It appears that we are going to find many, many variations of this.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67

Offline 67gta289

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2017, 06:45:42 PM »
John : I assume (?) that we're talking about page N7-8105- of the Body Assembly Manual, correct ? Well, here is a wrench I'll throw in. My page is Dated 12/15/66, and has the note "Supersedes 11/10/66", and shows the "square hole ".  Yours was built 5 days after that Revision at San Jose, and mine a month and a half later in Dearborn, yet both of ours have the oval holes ??

So "Who do you trust" (sounds like a good name for a game show for those who might remember).

I guess it's just another '67 oddity, or another instance where it's just an Illustration.

Bob

Bob M - I'll have to look again.  I looked twice but did not see it any date.   And as Jeff replied later, and I'm sure you know this with your engineering background, but the time between the drawing approval and the change in production can take weeks or months.


I am confused. Is the reference about oval and square hole or the rubber plug ?If talking about the metal hole the transition from the oval hole to the square hole in the radiator support transitioned in the middle of 67 production to the square hole from what I have seen.  I am sure it happened at various times within weeks of each other or less depending on plant. The 68's with original radiator supports will have the square hole which is actually made from the oval hole with oval top and bottom edge still evident and squared off sides. From what I have seen the same oval rubber plug is used whether installed in the oval hole or squared off hole in the radiator support.

Bob G - sorry if I confused the matter.  It started out as a "where can I find these oval rubber plugs" and morphed into something a bit more.   Some of my pictures though look like round plugs in the square hole, but admittedly it would be hard to distinguish the exact plug type from the pics.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2017, 07:38:12 PM »
I hardly see how one could talk about the rubber plugs without talking about the holes that they go into, particularly when talking about the ones in the front radiator support. While a round plug can fit into an oval or square hole, the oval plug cannot fit into the square hole.

Based on the pictures that both Jeff and John Posted, in particular John's with the duct tape behind the square hole, it appears to me, at least for '67's, that the square hole is a completely different stamping, not a modified oval hole. The width of the square hole does not appear adequate to accept the oval plug in question.

Additionally, the question was raised as to when the change from the oval hole (and plug) changed to the square hole (and round plug). As you noted, and Jeff's and John's pictures seem to support, the hole change appears to have occurred approximately mid-year. Yet how does one explain the square hole being shown in the 1966 copy from the Body Assembly Manual ? That was my point.

Bob
I wasn't sure if you were referring to the hole or the plug in the previous post which is why i asked and not whether which was more relevant. Maybe you have never seen the modified square hole in 67 doesn't mean it doesn't happen   :D. I have seen it numerous times.  It was fresh in my mind after looking at 67 GT500 3167 un restored survivor car (Carlisle all Ford June 3/2017 ) which had the modified square hole (seen that numerous times even though you haven't) with the oval plug installed. The oval plug fits easily. I just took out one for a picture that you see posted and reinstalled after.  Why they continued using the oval plug even after the transition to the modified hole is still a question. I don't have a extensive picture library like Jeff S but took this picture of a 67 GT500 # 2745 in my garage finished at SJ on 5/24/67. Also a picture of the survivor car. You can see the top curved edge of the oval hole in the hole without the plug. Now you have seen what I and many others have seen for years .
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline 67gta289

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2017, 09:32:04 PM »
Thanks for sharing.  Wasn't questioning or doubting you at all
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: source for 67 oval rubber plugs
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2017, 11:17:56 PM »
Picture of the other two versions of the hole in the radiator support being discussed. These are not to scale

Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 196667Bob

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2017, 11:21:57 PM »
Sorry to be the "fly in the ointment", but I do question or doubt that it was "standard practice" that the oval holes were modified, That is not to say that some oval hole "left over" inventory may not have been (although if there were left over oval plugs, why would the holes have been modified ?). The reason I say this is because of several things. In the pictures that Bob G just Posted, as well as the one that John posted with the duct tape "background" in his summary, note the axis of the supposedly remaining portion of the oval holes; it is vertical (this is also what is shown in the Illustration in the Body Assembly Manual, page N7-8105-1, for the square holes). The oval holes in the radiator support had a horizontal major axis. And finally, the rubber plug (Part # 376966-S) shown in Bob G's most recent Post is not an oval plug, but a 5/8" diameter round button plug according to the Ford Standard and Utility Parts Catalog.

I truly feel that the square hole was a totally new stamping. The square part of it used for the Cougar headlight applications, and the two rounded (segments of a circle) portions in order to facilitate the use of a round, button plug. The oval plug (Part # 377841-S) is totally different than the button plug.

Based on the Body Assembly Manual revisions, along with all of the pictures that have been furnished, I think we are dealing once again with another Production Change. Oval holes with oval plugs early in the year, and square holes with button plugs from about mid-year on.

Bob
1966 Coupe, C Code, 3 Sp MT, 6T07C154XXX, Build Date 11/22/65
1967 Conv, C Code, C4, 7F03C154XXX, Actual Build Date 01/31/67

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: source for 67 oval rubber plugs
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2017, 11:24:16 PM »
Purpose for the holes (one each side)

To hang the headlight assy from the radiator support




And the stud used for the square (with horizontal bumps) hole. Looks to me like its slipped down in the hole or been struck/unseated

« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 11:26:17 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: source for oval rubber plugs
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2017, 03:37:52 AM »
Sorry to be the "fly in the ointment", but I do question or doubt that it was "standard practice" that the oval holes were modified, That is not to say that some oval hole "left over" inventory may not have been (although if there were left over oval plugs, why would the holes have been modified ?). The reason I say this is because of several things. In the pictures that Bob G just Posted, as well as the one that John posted with the duct tape "background" in his summary, note the axis of the supposedly remaining portion of the oval holes; it is vertical (this is also what is shown in the Illustration in the Body Assembly Manual, page N7-8105-1, for the square holes). The oval holes in the radiator support had a horizontal major axis. And finally, the rubber plug (Part # 376966-S) shown in Bob G's most recent Post is not an oval plug, but a 5/8" diameter round button plug according to the Ford Standard and Utility Parts Catalog.

I truly feel that the square hole was a totally new stamping. The square part of it used for the Cougar headlight applications, and the two rounded (segments of a circle) portions in order to facilitate the use of a round, button plug. The oval plug (Part # 377841-S) is totally different than the button plug.

Based on the Body Assembly Manual revisions, along with all of the pictures that have been furnished, I think we are dealing once again with another Production Change. Oval holes with oval plugs early in the year, and square holes with button plugs from about mid-year on.

Bob
When I say modified it is most likely that the die that stamped the hole was modified and not a existing stamped oval hole that was later modified to a square shape. The shape was stamped at one time. This squared shape is typical in later 67 . I have two 1968 Metuchen Shelby Mustangs ,one early Dec 67 build and  the other a June built 68 that have the EXACT same shaped hole which would nullify your  "left over inventory" theory . Finally you need to get your reading glasses or magnifying glass out because the center of the plug in the picture is OVAL and not round. I am not sure about 68 plugs being oval or round but I have a high confidence level for the oval plugs being used in 1967 regardless of oval or squared hole based on my experience and observations. I suppose that there is something to be said for the credibility of getting out in the real world to find evidence on the cars vs. apparently arm chair speculation based on what you find in books. If you haven't seen these squared holes with the oval edges in radiator supports what with that shape being so prevalent in 67 and 68 then the most obvious conclusion is that you must not be getting out much.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline jwc66k

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Re: source for 67 oval rubber plugs
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2017, 12:06:24 PM »

And the stud used for the square (with horizontal bumps) hole. Looks to me like its slipped down in the hole or been struck/unseated


It also looks like it's installed backwards.
Jim
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Offline krelboyne

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Re: source for 67 oval rubber plugs
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2017, 12:27:09 PM »
The early oval hole, used a different stud for mounting the headlight bucket on a Cougar. Stove bolt type with a round flat nut or keeper holding it to the panel.

Scott Behncke - Carcheaologist
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Offline jwc66k

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Re: source for 67 oval rubber plugs
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2017, 01:45:16 PM »
The early oval hole, used a different stud for mounting the headlight bucket on a Cougar. Stove bolt type with a round flat nut or keeper holding it to the panel.


I would be inclined to believe this is a prime example of an owner induced modification, function unknown.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.