Author Topic: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle  (Read 8101 times)

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13757
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2014, 01:29:17 PM »
Jeff, I have been thinking this through and let me ask you a question - Did the Sport Mirrors at the local dealership parts dept. come from Ford with a primer finish?

Replacement rear view mirrors, if in stock and available when the car was delievered, would have been primer


If they were in primer, the dealer would have to paint the mirror some color, why would they paint it black or white?  They would have the correct paint code, why not just paint it body color?


Hard to explain what a new owner would want and either pay extra for or talk the dealer in providing. Would have required pulling the door panel, drilling more holes for the cable and the mount (door panel and the door itself) replacing what was on the car already. Its possible (if we're going to accept that a buyer went through all of this) that they may have liked a finish that matched the black out on the hood (more racy look) as much or more than ones that match the body color.


IMHO its like trying to explain why a buyer got or wanted red floor mats on a blue interior car after all these years :)  We're just left to guess, question and wonder at this point when it comes to things that are not "normal" or as Ford designed things
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Toejamm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2014, 02:24:42 PM »


We're just left to guess, question and wonder at this point when it comes to things that are not "normal" or as Ford designed things
[/quote]


What fun would it be if there were no mysteries to be solved.....One of the many reasons why Mustangs are so special.

Thanks
Present Mustangs:
1967 Branded Edition Mustang Coupe
1967 Indy Pacesetter Coupe
1997 Woodward Dream Cruise Edition GT Conv.
2008 Bullitt  Pre-Production 1PP01 - Media Car - First Bullitt Made

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13757
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2014, 08:08:56 PM »
........the dealer would have to paint the mirror some color, why would they paint it black or white?  They would have the correct paint code, why not just paint it body color?

Guess the direct answer is - if they were originally painted black or white that is either what the original owner wanted, was willing to pay for or what the dealer talked them into to make them happy.  If not original  its what the newer owner wanted to do.

Of course documenting that this is how it was delivered rests with the owner and may be difficult after all these years
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline olegoat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 05:21:23 PM »
Hi,My name is Don.I own the 1969 4.1 litre Mustang.The white racing mirrors came on the car.Nothing has been changed from factory other than the tires and wheels.I installed power steering which didn't come on the car.I had dual exhaust put on the car.but didn't do anything to change the intake system.The Marti report say that the car came with basic off-standard equipment which might explain the white mirrors.I've never searched the car for the build sheet.I do have all the original paperwork from day one including the owners warranty card that has my Dad's name on it.The car has all ways been garaged and for it's age it's in very good condition.I still have the original hubcaps that came on the car because it had standard 14 inch steel wheels from the factory.

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13757
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2014, 05:30:08 PM »
First welcome to the site

............The Marti report say that the car came with basic off-standard equipment which might explain the white mirrors......

Not familiar with the term "basic off-standard equipment" as seen on Marti reports for regular production or special order paint cars

Did your father happen to save the original bill of sale for the car? That might explain the difference.

Does the car still have the buck tag on it? 

Just attempting to figure out (if we can after all these years) if the car rolled off the transport or rail car that was or if the dealer made the change
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Smokey 15

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2014, 10:41:20 PM »
 Welcome from one "olegoat" to another. Knowledgeable bunch here.............except me.

Offline sportyworty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 12:34:54 PM »
basic off standard is a predetermined build for a particular car arrangement. I see this a lot with GT/CS cars for example that have 289/auto/std interior and 2.79 gear. This seems to be the run of the mill sort of configuration. Likely these econo 250 cars had a standard package as well to include the driveline options. Obviously options could be added but I think if a stocking dealer ordered a promo type car for inventory this was the call out and they perhaps had a color choice. I know Cat does this so they can group production and keep costs down on certain runs of same same

Offline olegoat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 06:14:36 PM »
I know for a fact that the car the way you see it today is exactly the way it came from the factory.My Dad owned a lot of old cars and wasn't to hot about changing a cars originality.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 06:23:52 PM by olegoat »

Offline groovygreen69

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Relic Recyclery
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2014, 01:15:19 PM »
Hey Don, thanks for letting me take all the pictures of your car. Hope you don't mind that I posted some on this forum.  I still look at them from time to time. They will make a great reference for the next 69 Mustang restoration I will do. All I need now is another 69 Mustang.......
Chris

<I>If I can't fix it, I'll fix it so no one can!"</I>

Offline olegoat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2014, 06:01:44 PM »
Hey Chris,I appreciate you putting the pics on there.There has been a lot of discussion about the mirrors,but I can tell you for a fact there wasn't a change made at the dealer or any place else.Dad would be so proud to see his car getting recognition.I want to thank you guys for making feel welcome at Carlisle.Don

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13757
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2014, 06:09:07 PM »
Hey Chris,I appreciate you putting the pics on there.There has been a lot of discussion about the mirrors,but I can tell you for a fact there wasn't a change made at the dealer or any place else......

So your family was there when the car was unloaded off the transport?  That must have been an exciting event - was able to do that a couple of times with cars I ordered and had built by the factory

Just thinking out loud - did you happen to keep the Special order paperwork that was suppose to be in the glove box in an envelope? Was wondering if it include a note or comment about the mirrors
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 06:14:16 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline olegoat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2014, 06:53:50 PM »
My Dad all ways kept any paperwork that came with a car.Since I don't have it,I would guess that it never came with the car.Dad didn't know it was a special car.He bought it because of the color.He asked if he could get it with a 289 and they told him,watch you see is what you get.Glad he bought it any way.I have the original window sticker,the original bill of sale,original title and the owners warranty card.

Offline J_Speegle

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13757
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2014, 12:46:18 AM »
My Dad all ways kept any paperwork that came with a car.Since I don't have it,I would guess that it never came with the car.Dad didn't know it was a special car.He bought it because of the color.He asked if he could get it with a 289 and they told him,watch you see is what you get.Glad he bought it any way.I have the original window sticker,the original bill of sale,original title and the owners warranty card.

So your dad didn't order this - just picked off the lot. Thanks
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 67gtasanjose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2807
  • "Take the MUSTANG PLEDGE"
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2014, 05:45:06 AM »
So your dad didn't order this - just picked off the lot. Thanks


It was a special order color car, so the mirror wouldn't be the same color as  the car, which I'm sure you know having had so many special order color cars yourself. The car was literally bought off the truck. The family had just bought a stationwagon when the car carrier pulled in. The father, car nut at the time, literally bought it while they were unloading it. According to the owner's son who was there, the mirrors were always white. Also the father did not want the red 4.1 Liter Special fender decals installed, so no one knows what they really looked like. The guy wouldn't let me dig around his car for build sheets, so what you see attached to this post is all that I have for documents.  The bucktag was too lightly stamped and so covered with paint and grime, that I couldn't read it.  Notice the tape on the tag ? Not sure what that was for. - Chris

I remembered reading in this thread that the car was bought off the truck, so I imagined that the car was taken home pretty much the same day, or I guess you might also say, once the check cleared.

Then I looked again at the Marti Report dates and the factory invoice selling date and I noticed something that begs a couple of questions. I am not trying to discredit anything, but I would like to learn more on such things. Quite possibly, there are good explanations for the date differences, I don't know, but I thought I would ask.

Dates on Marti Report:
Scheduled Build Date: 05/01/69
Actual Build Date:       05/14/69
Released Date:           05/14/69
Sold Date:                  07/10/69

Dealers Invoice Date:  08/09/69

1.) Were there typically such delays (on Special Paint cars or ANY cars of this time period) between actual build dates and dealer delivery dates? (truck driver's strike, train derailment??? idk)

2.) Could it be that the the actual delivery/purchase agreement (invoice) be written and dated at a different time than the Marti Report indicates some how?

Richard
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 06:12:47 AM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Well Optioned
2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline olegoat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2014, 05:44:57 PM »
Don't know what happened on that one.I have the original title the the sale date is 07/10/1969