Author Topic: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle  (Read 8101 times)

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2014, 06:58:25 PM »
Don't know what happened on that one.I have the original title the the sale date is 07/10/1969

That matches the Ford records.  So if Ford has their dates correct then the car sat around maybe a month and a half or so (after shipping the car to the dealer) before your dad purchased it

Think the time period provides at least the possibility that things could have been changed on the car at the dealer IMHO. Though not common - plenty of examples were wheels, hubcaps, mirrors and bolt on items were changed on cars for one reason or another. Have know some original owners that never realized that their cars had been touched up either before the original sale or while the cars were at the dealer for servicing if their memories held true.

Allot of time has past
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 07:01:27 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline groovygreen69

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2014, 02:11:18 PM »
Must be a mistake on the invoice or was written at a later date than the actual sale (because of the trade in?). The owner's card has the purchase date of 7/10/69, the title application dated 7/12/69 shows 7/9/69 and the original title dated 10/6/69 shows 7/9/69. 



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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2014, 07:16:11 PM »
Must be a mistake on the invoice or was written at a later date than the actual sale (because of the trade in?). The owner's card has the purchase date of 7/10/69, the title application dated 7/12/69 shows 7/9/69 and the original title dated 10/6/69 shows 7/9/69.

The "gap" Time period I was referring to was between the day the car was finished and the day it was recorded as sold. All the sale related dates look typical IMHO

If someone has a copy of the Marti maybe the order type would shed some additional information
Jeff Speegle

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Offline olegoat

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2014, 06:17:36 PM »
The order type according to the Marti report says Basic Off-Standard Equipment.Don't know where the car was after it was built but it didn't make it to the dealer until July.This car wasn't special ordered by my Dad. The dealer told him they built 500 of these cars .Dad bought it because he liked the color,didn't have any ideal that it was a special car.

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2014, 07:27:52 PM »
The order type according to the Marti report says Basic Off-Standard Equipment.Don't know where the car was after it was built but it didn't make it to the dealer until July............

Lots of questions - so thanks for being a good sport. How do you know it didn't make it to the dealership until July?
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Offline olegoat

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2014, 06:11:22 PM »
Mom and Dad had bought a new 1969 Ford station wagon and it was supposed to have a rear step on it it.It came without the step and the dealer ordered the step for the car.When it came in they called Dad and he took the car over to have it installed.While he was there the transport truck pulled in and he said the first thing he noticed was the green mustang on top.Fell in love with the car and bought it.This was in July of 69

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2014, 08:41:12 PM »
Mom and Dad had bought a new 1969 Ford station wagon and it was supposed to have a rear step on it it................

Thanks now I can understand your earlier statement and documents a specific event to its arrival .

Wonder, in the advertising, if there was a group shot of all or a bunch of the cars. Don't recall ever seeing a picture like that but a shot in the dark for the the amount of time between the build and  and the arrival. Wonder how close the closest rail yard was from the dealership or if they were all trucked given the distance between Dearborn and the dealership
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 67gta289

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 09:03:06 PM »
Not the same year, but look at the 68 strike picture from Life attached.   I know its hard to focus on anything other than the Mustang fastback  ;), but look at the other cars surrounding it.

There are still short term storage lots around metro Detroit today, including some managed by third parties.  Even in the days of "just in time".

A non-ordered car sitting a month or two is not a strange concept.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 09:16:39 PM »
A non-ordered car sitting a month or two is not a strange concept.

Certainly not a "normal" year (68) or situation.

Don't believe I've ever heard one of the managers of a plant during the period that described cars sitting at the plant for extended periods. Not that much room (considering the volume done daily on multiple of lines at each plant and the quicker they get to the dealer even non-ordered cars started producing some income. Hard to sell them at the plant ;)

Lot more reports of cars being moved with in a day or two from my exchanges There were holding locations in most districts but not sure how they came into play currently
Jeff Speegle

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Offline jwc66k

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2014, 12:33:23 AM »
Even in the days of "just in time".
"Just In Time" for ordering and inventory control for manufacturing was not an accepted concept by Ford in the 1960's, lack of computers. Ford used many planners basing their order on marketing forecasts, and a lot of WAG's (Wild Assed Guesses).
A non-ordered car sitting a month or two is not a strange concept.
My 65 GT Fastback was built in San Jose on 5-11-65, delivered to Bob Coates Ford in Walnut Grove (date unknown) and finally sold by Towne Ford in Redwood City on 8-7-65, a three month "lag". Reason - unknown.
Certainly not a "normal" year (68) or situation.
Lot more reports of cars being moved with in a day or two from my exchanges There were holding locations in most districts but not sure how they came into play currently
I would think 1965 would be a "normal" year. I have the original window sticker, and the sales invoice (The invoice has the original buyer's name and address so I will not show it until those have been altered). It does not have a special DSO.
Jim
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Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2014, 06:58:02 AM »
Thanks now I can understand your earlier statement and documents a specific event to its arrival .

Wonder, in the advertising, if there was a group shot of all or a bunch of the cars. Don't recall ever seeing a picture like that but a shot in the dark for the the amount of time between the build and  and the arrival. Wonder how close the closest rail yard was from the dealership or if they were all trucked given the distance between Dearborn and the dealership

Keeping in mind, these were a special build car, they would not necessarily follow the "norm", this statement seems to make the most sense so far, that is using the "Buying it right off the truck" and the statement of seeing the truck pull in. Other ideas might come out but as far as I care, his Dad IS the original owner and only he could possibly answer any questions differently than his son already has.

As far as why any car sits at ANY dealership  for a period of time, that seems to be more unrelated to this discussion. The area of discussion seems to be on BEFORE it arrived at the dealership, and what took so long for it to get there. Everything else has awesome documentation that most of us could only dream of having! (like me!)

One thing is sure, This is a very Groovy Green Mustang and very much a nice example of a car well maintained over the years. As far as the "Gap" that is in question here, I guess it really doesn't matter if the car is "As Delivered" so how the mirrors came as white, if that is how it were delivered, that shouldn't matter either.

The owner accepts it, I accept it and I imagine most of us all accept it is "As Delivered". If it is the only one like that, so what? One of a kind is great! Well, that is my opinion anyways :D
Richard Urch

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Offline specialed

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2014, 12:33:31 PM »
olegoat  what does it say on your window sticker above special paint?   Danville is only 5 hours sw of Detroit

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2014, 02:48:43 PM »
Keeping in mind, these were a special build car, they would not necessarily follow the "norm", this statement seems to make the most sense so far, that is using the "Buying it right off the truck" and the statement of seeing the truck pull in. Other ideas might come out but as far as I care, his Dad IS the original owner and only he could possibly answer any questions differently than his son already has.

As far as why any car sits at ANY dealership  for a period of time, that seems to be more unrelated to this discussion. The area of discussion seems to be on BEFORE it arrived at the dealership, and what took so long for it to get there. Everything else has awesome documentation that most of us could only dream of having! (like me!)

Agreed

Since there is allot of the factory paperwork and original observations this seemed to be a good example to discuss the facts as presented and maybe learn something from the exchange. Since we're all at a great distance  and only using the printed word to communicate the exchange often takes allot of back and forth to follow each lead and nuance in the story.

As mentioned olegoat has been a good sport helping us fully understand the details and the comments. Hope I get to see the care in person at some point in the future.

Jeff Speegle

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Offline midlife

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2014, 09:06:35 PM »
Maybe I missed something here.  This was a special order car, so someone ordered it and expected delivery.  I suppose a dealer could have special ordered it, but then that begs the question of the amount of time from the release date to the sold date.

So I'm going to offer a hypothetical situation that is still somewhat typical today.  Suppose someone (or a dealer) special ordered the car and it was delivered to that dealer, but went unsold.  The dealer then traded that car for another car at the dealer where the original poster's father bought the car.  The truck would have delivered the vehicle from one dealership to another, and the new owner would not know the difference.

How to check this scenario?  What does the Marti Report show for which dealer the factory delivered the car to?  Was it the one who sold it or another dealer?

Is this too far out in left field to consider or have I overlooked something in the discussions?

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 1969 4.1 Liter Special at the Ford Nationals at Carlisle
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2014, 09:37:28 PM »
Maybe I missed something here.  This was a special order car, so someone ordered it and expected delivery.  I suppose a dealer could have special ordered it, but then that begs the question of the amount of time from the release date to the sold date........

This car was part of a special promotion not a car specifically ordered for a particular buyer like some special order cars. Kind of along the lines of a 66 High Country Special since there were a promotion that included special order paint as part of the package.  From the report the car (part of the promotion) was sent to the dealer then once seen by "oldgoat's" father was purchased

But I think what I'm getting from your post is - yes it would have been possible, one would think, that it could have originally been sent to another dealer then to the dealer that sold it if the first dealer didn't want it, didn't think it would sell or some other reason. Not sure if the Ford records reflect where the car was originally shipped or originally sold when the two differed.

Good question Kevin might know should be visiting him in the next few weeks
Jeff Speegle

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