ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: 1Hotboss on December 27, 2012, 04:53:24 PM
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I am getting my leaf springs from Eaton, they are not going to be painted that ugly black...how should I restore them to look correct
thanks
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What your looking for IMHO is a dark heat treated bare steel look with a protectant oil finish. The color would vary slightly depending how new(clean) or old (dirty) the quenching oil was that the springs were placed into after forming.
Clamps would be a much brighter new steel look that will show the contrast between the leaves and clamps
Today (depending on usage and ability) most strip and clean the springs (after disassembly) without adding texture to the metal. Then treat with a couple of chemicals to get the dark color then cover/soak in a protectant oil such as Corrison X or BioShield.
An alternative is using rattle cans to get the same look but unlike the unpainted surface touching up and repairing of these surfaces can be allot more difficult IMHO
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What your looking for IMHO is a dark heat treated bare steel look with a protectant oil finish. The color would vary slightly depending how new(clean) or old (dirty) the quenching oil was that the springs were placed into after forming.
Clamps would be a much brighter new steel look that will show the contrast between the leaves and clamps
Today (depending on usage and ability) most strip and clean the springs (after disassembly) without adding texture to the metal. Then treat with a couple of chemicals to get the dark color then cover/soak in a protectant oil such as Corrison X or BioShield.
An alternative is using rattle cans to get the same look but unlike the unpainted surface touching up and repairing of these surfaces can be allot more difficult IMHO
+1 .
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If your Mustang isn't going to be a concours trailered or thoroughbred and you don't want to go through all the trouble of chemicals and such, and you like driving your Mustang like I do, you can use Eastwoods Detail Gray paint that comes in an aerosol 13 oz can, item #10036Z. This paint will give you a natural looking finish.
Also, check out all the other paints and restoration tools/equipment Eastwood has to offer.
I used Eastwood paints and products over a decade ago on my Mustangs with no troubles at all, and I drive mine and once in a blue moon get stuck in rain, but don't have to worry about surface rust since the parts have been painted under the hood and the undercarriage. But, I do make an effort to wipe away any moisture when I get home or back to the show field.
By the way, I show my Mustang in concours "Driven" and I'm 2 points away from applying for my grill medallion and placing our Mustang in the conservator class.....Hope this helps in your effort.
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As mentioned rattle cans can reproduce the look though I do see rust in the wear areas even in a dry region of the country.
What has worked best for me is East woods Phosphate followed by a thin dry complete coat of interior Charcoal metallic.
Phosphate is too mono tone for me and the interior color which is mostly clear adds a little metal flake to the final look. Then a coat of oil or semi-gloss clear shot dry adds the look of cosmoline a protection coated added to allot of original parts
As mentioned when you get any rust or wear spots it allot more effort to redo and shield other parts from the pain when needed. Of course if your planning on driving the car allot that's not really the focus on this site ;) and other options might be a better fit
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As mentioned rattle cans can reproduce the look though I do see rust in the wear areas even in a dry region of the country.
What has worked best for me is East woods Phosphate followed by a thin dry complete coat of interior Charcoal metallic.
Phosphate is too mono tone for me and the interior color which is mostly clear adds a little metal flake to the final look. Then a coat of oil or semi-gloss clear shot dry adds the look of cosmoline a protection coated added to allot of original parts
As mentioned when you get any rust or wear spots it allot more effort to redo and shield other parts from the pain when needed. Of course if your planning on driving the car allot that's not really the focus on this site ;) and other options might be a better fit
+1 . FYI Detail grey is too light and not meant to be used for a authentic leaf spring metal look.
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I failed to mention, the Eastwoods Phosphate paint(item#10281Z), I've used on several items where phosphate was the look I was wanting to replicate. It sprays on well and gives you the look and durability you might be wanting to achieve for "driving" purposes.
But, If you plan on a concours trailered(not to be confused with concours "driven") restoration or maybe a thoroughbred restoration, or if you plan on your Mustang sitting allot in a garage, This will be the web site for you.
But, as mentioned, if you plan on driving the car allot and enjoying you Mustang, thats not the focus on this web site. Maybe seek some information from another sight that the people there would be more helpful with information on "driving" your classic.....Hope this helps.
Have a safe and Happy New Year :)
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Sorry for this novice question, but I am flummoxed... How can it be concours correct to paint a surface that wasn't painted at the factory?
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First, I want to stress in my posts, I have mentioned several times the word "DRIVEN"If the Mustang is going to be shown in MCA concours "Driven", certains areas that were indeed from the factory with a natural or phosphate appearance, or whatever shade it may have been, you are allowed to use paints on those areas that closely duplicate that finish/look that it came with from the factory.
But no paints in concours trailered or thoroughbred.
MCA parts finish schedule reads as follows: "Concours driven Mustangs may use paints that reasonably match the parts finishes as defined in the table".
Also in the MCA judging rules for concours trailered/driven, In certain sections it will say," Driven Exception".....Hope this answers your question.
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Hope this answers your question.
It certainly does, thanks.
What partly confused me was that some of the other post weren't so specific about which classes the various approaches were supposed to adhere to. Perhaps it was understood.
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It certainly does, thanks.
What partly confused me was that some of the other post weren't so specific about which classes the various approaches were supposed to adhere to. Perhaps it was understood.
One of the challenges is that currently there is not a difference (paint or no paint) in the Concours Classes at MCA though their may be in future. In addition to that many here consider only the best possible opinions (in their opinions of course ;) and try to share those, I know that my opinion of using paint has really changed since maybe three short years ago
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One of the challenges is that currently there is not a difference (paint or no paint) in the Concours Classes at MCA.........
I'm sorry Jeff, but I do have to disagree with you here. There are not no differences in the rules in concours classes, BUT, there are EXCEPTIONS between "trailered and driven" in the concours classes in the judging rules, and also when it comes to when paints can be used to match parts finishes in the Concours "DRIVEN" class. The key word in this sentence is,"Exceptions".
Attached is an MCA document from the MCA website. Please read the bold print at the bottom of the document. This is what I'm referring to.
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I'm sorry Jeff, but I do have to disagree with you here. There are not no differences in the rules in concours classes, BUT, there are EXCEPTIONS between "trailered and driven" in the concours classes in the judging rules,.......................
Attached is an MCA document from the MCA website. Please read the bold print at the bottom of the document. This is what I'm referring to.
No problem the important thing IMHO is what is correct for our members.
Didn't notice the note on that page (though it has been there for a number years) - especially since its not included or referenced in the judging sheets.
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I've been out of the MCA loop for a couple years, but I don't think there was ever a decision made to require concours-trailered to have all correct finishes (without using paints as a faux finish). Not sure when that snippet was put in the parts finish doc, but it technically does not apply.
If I'm mistaken about there being no painted finishes allowed in concours-trailered, I'm sure someone will correct.
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Probably a discussion best suited for the MCA web site.
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Here are some pictures of my 70 B2 leaf springs that I just restored thsi past weekend with Jeffs approach of Eastwood Phosphate, then a dusting of Charcoal Metallic, followed by matte clear. I also hit it with a scotchbright in the end to reduce the shine a bit more. I drive this car (actually all of my cars) lots so opted to go with painting the springs. I did the same a few years ago on my 70 Mach 1, and as mentioned the only areas that "show wear" are on the edges where the springs rub together. Touch-up has been pretty easy with a quick hit of phosphate paint and then clear after masking the area off while on the car.
I think they are close to a phosphated color, but not perfect. Thoughts? (I would put this into Concours driven)
Also included is a pic of the original stripes for a reference. The Brown stripes can be seen between the blue tape areas if you look carefully between .5" to 1.5" and 2" to 3".
(http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/pictures/Leaf-springs/original-marks.jpg)
(http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/pictures/Leaf-springs/1.jpg)
(http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/pictures/Leaf-springs/2.jpg)
(http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/pictures/Leaf-springs/3.jpg)
(http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/pictures/Leaf-springs/4.jpg)
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Looks good, almost too good. The ID stripes were not put that neatly. Keep in mind that the "painter" was reading a shipping manifest, selecting the correct paint and "painting". The total time would be less than a minute resulting in a jagged edge of the stripes, slop over at the top and bottom of the stroke and uneven spacing.
Jim
(Think - hung over, maybe stoned, worried about what the favorite sports team will do, and watching the clock.)
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Probably a discussion best suited for the MCA web site.
Yeah, they would probably call in Jeff Speegle as a consultant.
Jim
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Here are some pictures of my 70 B2 leaf springs that I just restored thsi past weekend with Jeffs approach of Eastwood Phosphate, then a dusting of Charcoal Metallic, followed by matte clear. I also hit it with a scotchbright in the end to reduce the shine a bit more.................
Might have gotten the clear on too smoothly - purpose of the dry coats since this can produce an almost texture like there is dust on the surface. Glad you figured out something that worked for you.
How did you finish the clamps? Wire brush?
I think they are close to a phosphated color, but not perfect. Thoughts? (I would put this into Concours driven)
Looks good - judges will likely (unless something catches their eye) 15-30 seconds asking themselves if it looks right? anything odd? and then move on.
I can see the waves in the stripes - think your find there.
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How did you finish the clamps? Wire brush?
Yes I wire brushed them. First with a course brush to get them somewhat clean, then soaked them in evaporust for a few days, then a fine brush and then cleared.
How do you typically finish the clamps?
Thanks for the feedback.
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Yes I wire brushed them. First with a course brush to get them somewhat clean, then soaked them in evaporust for a few days, then a fine brush and then cleared.
How do you typically finish the clamps?
Use to wire brush everything but found that it left a finish that was too bright and didn't look like new metal. IF you go to any hardware store and look at the bare steel bulk metal (1 or 2" wide strap or bar) you get an idea of the finish you looking for. Now I often wire brush but them come back with the liquid gun bluing repair fluid (normally applied with steel wool) then work the surface to brighten and make the finish consistent then oil or dry clear if you choose.
Have found that you can oil over paint with no issues other than making it a bit more difficult to touch up if needed later
Need to do an article for the site showing the process I guess. Pictures with words work so much better
Hope this helps
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For the leaf spring clamps, if you have a good set, the best way to re-finish would be to blast them and then run them through a vibratory tumbler for 15-30 minutes. Angle cut ceramic does a nice job for steel.
Otherwise, new spring clamps can be bought and installed. Jim Cowles has some with the round holes from time to time.
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As a point of reference, here is a pair I restored, done without paint:
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Thanks for that picture and info.
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Charles I have noticed the holes in the clamps of your restored leaf springs are round which the originals were, but all of the repo's I can find are have got square holes like app01's. Do you have any ideas where the clamps with round holes are available ?
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I also noticed that about the clamps. I have an original set of springs that I disassembled to get the round hole clamps off of them, but the metal on the bend over tabs is so thin, I do not think they will hold up to rebending to install them. I have one spring with the square hole clamps amd hope to get one spring worth of round hole clamps and be on the look out for more round ones. I have thought about makeing my own as they do not look to complicated to reproduce. I have several originals with broken tabs that I can measure.
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Believe Jim Cowles was making the clamps with the round holes
http://s247533021.onlinehome.us/catalog/ (http://s247533021.onlinehome.us/catalog/)
He often makes small runs of parts that are not listed on the website
From a post on the SAAC site
"Just made a small run of the round hole style leaf spring clamps. These were made to original specs and have been pre-bent for installation just like the originals with rubber pad. We cut them bent them, glass beaded then tumbled for that bare metal OEM type finish. $56 Postpaid if prepaid by check or MO with Priority mail shipping! CC and paypal payments $58 set postpaid! Shelby Parts and Restoration 2215 Oconnor Rd Green Bay, WI 54313 920 434 3645"
Hope this helps
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Got my round hole clamps from Jim 2 years ago-turned out real nice. He even sent me extras when I messed up a couple of them...;)
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Yes, got the round hole clamps from Jim. Glad someone makes them!
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Just to confirm, my square hole clamps are correct for a 70 Dearborn, B2, correct? (I thought mine were original, and the unrestored pics show square holes)
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Just to confirm, my square hole clamps are correct for a 70 Dearborn, B2, correct?
Your fine - different year thing
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Which ones would be correct for a '68?
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Just sent Jim Cowles an email to see if he has any available. Thank you
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Which ones would be correct for a '68?
What plant??? Did look at a San Jose 68 today with square holed spring clamps but want to make sure we're discussing the same plant and such
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Dearborn, mid April 1968.
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Just sent Jim Cowles an email to see if he has any available. Thank you
How did you go? Did Jim get back to you?
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Any input on what the Dearborn leaf spring clamps should be?
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Any input on what the Dearborn leaf spring clamps should be?
Getting a bit off thread but for one response - appears to be square
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/8F01T159407under_zpse693ed30.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/8F02C211557sprngs_zpsd0b4ceff.jpg)