ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on May 10, 2014, 10:37:05 AM

Title: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 10, 2014, 10:37:05 AM
I'm seeking to establish more undersatnding of details about this rare option.
Questions:

1.) There was an early and a late version of the lamps for 1967 models. (early used a blue and red colored, backlit font as apposed to the all red, with white font lenses on the later 67's and the 68's) When did the change occur, and did this change-over differ much between the assembly plants?

2,) What was the arrangement of the lamps within the bezels? I realize the Air Conditioned cars had the panel in the console and non-A/C cars in the panel over the radio. question 2a.) I am assembling my console mounted lamps at this time and there are marker daubs on the backside of the console panel identifying the color of the correct (round) plastic connector to the lamp body, but I do not have a way of identifying the absolute location of which lamp (e.g. "PARK", "BELT", "DOOR", "FUEL" ) goes into what location. Memory serving as my only guide without a wiring diagram tell me that Top/Left is "BELT", Top/Right is "PARK", Bottom/Left is "DOOR" and Bottom/Right is "FUEL" Question 2b.) What then, also is the correct order from Left to Right on cars with these over the radio? (non-A/C cars)

It is possible we could help establish fact from fiction about these panels with more discussion of unrestored systems.


Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 10, 2014, 11:09:06 AM
Here, I have some shots of the 2 different lamp harnesses, one for my 1967 console A/C car, and the other is of a 1967 non A/C . It is possible they are the same as the 68's but I do not have images on the 68's.
If you look closer you can see the color coded marks on the bezels. The last image, when combined with other images, shows the wiring colors at the two white and green connectors...if it helps anyone in harness restoration.
I took some pictures of a 68 Convertible main harness, door harness and front to back harness with some additional part numbers on some of those harnesses. I tried uploading them but it kicked back and didn't take them. Let me know if you feel I should try again to upload them.

Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 10, 2014, 02:32:33 PM
Notable details from research I have done on an early 67 San Jose and a 68 Convertible (unk. plant & production date) on the systems I have available to collect information from.
This information may OR MAY NOT apply to other 67's and 68 models. Please contribute further information and knowledge you may have. This is a working document subject to changes.

1.) 67's and 68's use a completely different main harness from each other.
2.) The RELAY is the same for both. The overall design is the same for both. Part number on the relay for all is C6AF-10A986-A
3.) 67's use a round "bullet" connector at the door harness to the main Convenience harness connections. 68's use a somewhat clear, plastic "pin" connector at the door harness to main Convenience harness connector.
4.) 67's have the Low Fuel wire built into the tailamp harness, running down the left rocker panel. 68's had this (green with white tracer) wire running down the right side rocker (at least on convertibles)
5.) The relay is close to the ignition switch on the 67's and close to the Park Brake on the 68's
6.) There is a red wire at the relay for both years, that runs out to under the hood, through a hole up high on the cowl, directly behind the furthest right bolt (of the 4) at the rear of the right side strut brace or export brace. This red wire connects (on the early 67's at least) with a male "bullet" connector into a female, 3-opening "bullet" connector, plugged into the middle hole (other 2 are not connected to anything) and runs along the pinch weld of the cowl, (through a wiring holder over the brake booster) joining the rest of the headlamp harness and runs in tandem with the headlamp harness in front of the radiator, over to the starter relay. It is connected on top of the main cable going TO the starter. (functions as a bulb-test in "start" to the FUEL lamp)
7.) Early 67's used different lamps than the later 67's and the 68's. Production changes are unknown at this time when they switched to the later type. These early lamps had a blue "font" for the DOOR and FUEL lights while having a red "font" for the PARK light and the BELT light. I say "font" because they were a blackout round lens till they were backlit, and they lit up only the font in the colors mentioned. The later 67's and 68's (currently being reproduced by Scott Drake) were all red lenses with white lettering on the faces. You could tell what they are for, even before they are lit, where as the early design was more incognito.
8.) These lights were in different locations depending if the car had Air Conditioning or not. A/C cars had the lights in the mandatory console (to have this option) Non- A/C cars were all over the radio (where the AC register would be on the AC cars) and did not require having the console to have this option.
9.) There are different door wiring harnesses depending on other options ordered. (e.g. with or without stereo door speakers and with or without door courtesy lamps)

Feel free to add more info about this option. There is little discussed anywhere about proper restoration methods. Where they tape to the main vehicle harness, where the relays mount on various productions and so on.
Please help shed light on other areas you may be aware of.

Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on May 10, 2014, 03:19:58 PM
I have a 67 GTA convertible with the Convenience option. It was built 11-04-66 and has the early lights. One thing I did not see in your text is the door ajar indicator uses a special bulb that flashes, it is now obsolete so NOS is your only option. The reason I understood that it flashed was if the door was left open for a long period a regular bulb may melt the lens.   
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 10, 2014, 03:41:25 PM
One thing I did not see in your text is the door ajar indicator uses a special bulb that flashes, it is now obsolete so NOS is your only option. The reason I understood that it flashed was if the door was left open for a long period a regular bulb may melt the lens.   
Interesting about the bulb. One of my early lenses is warped some from heat...but it's the PARK lens.
I'll have to test my bulbs, see if we have any "flashers" among them ;) You wouldn't by chance have a bulb number on that, do you?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 10, 2014, 04:00:05 PM
Also, RUPPSTANG, Is your car SJ or other?  Can you note where your lamps are in your console? (top left is_____, top right is_____ , bottom left is_____ , bottom right is_____. If you can, also see where your Low Fuel relay mounts. On the Wiper motor bracket? Thanks for your info :)
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on May 10, 2014, 11:24:25 PM
Our GTA is SJ car. The upper LH is Seat Belts, upper RH is Park Brake, lower LH is Door Ajar and lower RH is Low Fuel. My owners manual printing is dated August 1966 and in it's bulb chart it calls for 1895 for all four. Some where I found a different chart that call for a 1891 b4 9/06/66 and a 1445 after for Low Fuel and Seat Belt. Door Ajar and Park Brake calls for 256. 
I also have a 1968 High County Special built in SJ the owners manual from it November 1967 Calls for a 1895 for Belt and Low Fuel. 257 for Door Ajar a Park Brake.  I would have to conclude that there were issues on the early cars with lens damage with the 1895's.
Hope this helps. Marty




Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: Andrew@MagMustangs on May 18, 2014, 04:51:19 PM
The C6AF-10A368-A Relay is specific to the function of the (Low Fuel) Light. It is not a relay for the overall panel, just Low Fuel. The (Seat Belt) Light uses a C7AB-10B924-B1 Relay. The (Park Brake) and (Door Ajar) Lights do not use Relays. 
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on May 29, 2014, 09:17:12 PM
Did some documentation of the stuff I currently have, see attached. Contains lens info and bulb info.  Not claiming correctness, just reporting some reference points.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: gwells67 on June 13, 2014, 08:26:28 AM
I am hoping you guys can help.  After 25 years, I've finally decided to get my panel back into my car and working.  The good news is it's 99% working!  I have one issue with the Door switch on the passenger side.  Do these symptoms sound like a bad switch or something else?

1. Key on, Doors closed: Light comes on
2. Key on, Driver's Door Open: Light goes off
3. Key on, Passenger door open: Light is still on


I have power all the way to the passenger switch..now what?  Can I fix or adjust that switch?

Also: I made up early '67 lenses that look very good when installed.  I've got a bunch if anyone wants a set.  I am also  looking for a deluxe center plate as I've got my AC out of the car right now and my lights are in my console.


Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on June 13, 2014, 09:13:02 AM
Hi Greg,
Welcome to the site.
The way the door ajar light should work is when door opens the switch grounds and lights the light. It should not light with doors closed. I believe your problem is in the drivers door, the switch seems to be doing the opposite of what it is suppose to. I believe that there is some adjustment but there may be other issues. FYI there are LH and RH switches. That could be the problem someone used the wrong side. I have a switch but can not remember what side it is for.
Good luck Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: gwells67 on June 13, 2014, 09:35:29 AM
Thanks, I've been waiting for years to find a group who knows about this option!

Interesting..So if I unplug my driver's door, the theory is that the passenger door should work? 

I think my latches are marked and I know they both cmd out of the car together 30 or so years ago but maybe they are marked wrong and the sides are switched?  I didn't think you could even fit them to the wrong sides but maybe?

t wonder if you put them in on the wrong sides they could behave this way?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 13, 2014, 11:28:06 AM

1. Key on, Doors closed: Light comes on
2. Key on, Driver's Door Open: Light goes off
3. Key on, Passenger door open: Light is still on


I have power all the way to the passenger switch..now what?  Can I fix or adjust that switch?

Greg

Marty is correct. The each door switch simply GROUNDS the circuit, causing the circuit to be completed within the main convenience wiring harness (that harness has a factory splice near the center of the dash to join together the wire coming from each door. I believe the splice is at the connection in the middle of the dash where the lamps harness plug in). Each door harness simply through ONE wire, connects the simple "grounding" switch mounted onto the door latches, to the main convenience harness. (connected within each of the door pillars, behind the kick panels) The DOOR lamp itself has a 12V, fused key on power source. (on 67's connect up to the post on the back of the ignition switch. On the 68's, it is connected onto a power source on the main vehicle undedash harness. I believe the 68 connection is between the fuse box and the ignition switch) The 12V ignition source operates the whole convenience panel and the convenience wiring does not get a 12V signal from any other source. (with the exception of a "start" signal from the stareter relay, out by the battery) There isn't anything really complicated about the DOOR lamp circuit, so diagnosing it should be rather simple and straight forward. The only somewhat complicated circuit is the FUEL. The PARK light works from a GROUND signal from a grounding switch on top of the Park Brake Assembly. The BELT light is a constantly grounded bulb with a remote timer relay and it operates exactly the same as other 67-68 Mustangs with the Seatbelt (standard equipment) warning light.

It sounds like you are somehow back-feeding through the drivers switch. What you need is a wiring diagram and to do some continuity checks, checking mostly THE GROUND WIRE that grounds the system (behind the instr. cluster I believe) Also, make sure you do not have anything cross-wired in the door harness or in the pillars.

I am at work now, but I think I have the diagram at home. I know I can look at my harness easily enough. A simple beginning would to ensure the ground wire is grounded good and that you have continuity of that ground everywhere it need to go. ( I really know wiring, don't believe the drivers door is the problem unless it somehow was cross-wired to any other door harness wiring)

Hope it helps, I'll try and remember to look into this tonight.

AND... on eBay, there are 2 Convenience panel bezels for sale right now. One is the console face (a nice one) and the other is for No A/C bezel (also looks nice)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191204064076?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191204070699?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 13, 2014, 11:33:06 AM

I just recieved an eBay order containing early 67 Cougar items and includes the plug-in harness and lamps with two early style lenses (now I have the PARK lens I needed AND a second extra DOOR lens) 4 lamp housings, 4 lamp bezels and bulbs. Obviously, the Cougar's padded console piece is Cougar-ONLY but the rest is JUST LIKE my Console set-up in the Mustang. Two bulbs btw, are the GE 256 (flashers) and other two are GE 1445.

Within this thread, I would like to set up a pictures showing the CORRECT orientation and layout of all related wiring, bulbs with the correct part numbers and something showing all correct factory locations for various components within this two-year range of 67-68. Using Marty's locations of where his various lenses are layed out on his console type, I can then also show the correct layout for the NON-A/C cars using the back of a bezel I recently had my hands on.

This is a tall order since nearly 100% of many cars with this option have been tampered with at some point, whether a radio install, restoration or almost any under dash work could have resulted in items being left loose (disconnected) moved, cut and whatever.

I can upload pictures with paint scribes on the backs of Non-AC bezels and Console located setups as well as some of the scribes of marks on the lamp bodies themselves (though those marks are rather obscure). Using J I can also photograph wiring going out to the Starter relay and the course it presently is going on my car, but I know I had removed it about 17 years ago for underhood repaint, so it is maybe not the best sample.

I have photographs of a 68 (convertible) wiring harness and where it was taped onto the main underdash harness also available.

There really is so much NOT KNOWN about this rare option. I hope others who have this option can volunteer images from unrestored samples to help others, such as myself, who wish to reassemble things accurately as possible.

Thanks for reading,
Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: gwells67 on June 13, 2014, 12:05:44 PM
OK...I have a wiring diagram as well so I will check that ground wire (I know exactly what you are talking about).  I saw that plate on ebay but $200 seems pricey, maybe I'll email him.

I'll post pics on my lenses--they came out nice!

Thanks
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 13, 2014, 12:40:48 PM
don't believe the drivers door is the problem unless it somehow was cross-wired to any other door harness wiring)


Something else along this thought came to mind. If somehow you've cross-wired the door wiring with the courtesy light in the door and are pulling 12v through the door bulb (back-feeding) this might happen(plugs are similar on 67's). Since the passengers door seems to have the problem, possibly the plugs inside the door pillar aren't connected where they belong. Just an idea. You DEFINATELY are back-feeding, the question is where from.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 13, 2014, 12:54:24 PM

2. Key on, Driver's Door Open: Light goes off
3. Key on, Passenger door open: Light is still on


I have power all the way to the passenger switch..now what?  Can I fix or adjust that switch?


This is what makes me think possible backfeed into the courtesy lamps. Look to see if any lamp or lamps (especially in a door) try to light up It would be VERY dim if it did and not easy to notice in a very well lit area so maybe try checking in a dark area away from light.

Richard, Self-employed, Licensed Mechanic & Electrical Wizard for 40 years  ;)
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: gwells67 on June 13, 2014, 02:45:02 PM
I think you are on to something here!  I disconnected the wire to the driver's door harness and the passenger door now works as it should.  I ale noticed that the driver's door harness has been cut so it's totally possible that the courtesy light power or ground and the door ajar wire are mixed up.  I need to take my kick panel of and see what is doing here but I think this has put me down the right path!

Thanks!

Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 13, 2014, 03:07:33 PM
I think you are on to something here! 

Yeah, the DOOR ajar portion of this system is not rocket science. It gets it's switched 12v supply with the rest of the Convenience system and a ground signal provided from each door switch on the latches. It's about as simple as wiring up a table lamp. The clue once again was the weird way each door worked/didn't work right, along the lines of a bad ground in a dual element brake light/taillight that seems to work fine independently but when the taillights are on AND you step on the brake they both go out! 

:D Happy this helped narrow it down. Don't forget those lenses!

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 16, 2014, 03:32:39 PM
bump.
Note: I updated an earlier comment #13 from page 1 of this thread today, please re-read if you can.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: J_Speegle on June 16, 2014, 08:04:49 PM
If you would like to build an article for the library that is another option once you collect all the pictures and information. I can/will put together it all in  a format and arrange things to help - you get final approval (your names on it :)   before its "put on the shelf" and "published"

Just a thought and offer know this is one of your pet projects
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 17, 2014, 06:26:54 AM
If you would like to build an article for the library that is another option once you collect all the pictures and information. I can/will put together it all in  a format and arrange things to help - you get final approval (your names on it :)   before its "put on the shelf" and "published"

Just a thought and offer know this is one of your pet projects

I think that would be a good idea to do this. We definately would need more images first IMO, to put together an article that is "Concours" in quality of information. At this time, this thread remains a good "scratch pad" for notes at least.  ;)

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on June 17, 2014, 08:24:53 AM
The assembly manuals clearly show light positions and a lot of other information. I thought of scanning them but they are copy righted.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 14, 2014, 08:29:59 AM
Another uncovered detail about these systems. Maybe others can shed some light from examples they have with this Safety Convenience Control System and/or Speed Control as to actual assembly line change-over dates.

Page 57 of Osborn Electrical has a wire running down the right side strut support (view-A). This makes better sense than the example I have found (early system?) on my 11/66 produced car. The wire on the EARLY design runs along the pinch weld below the strut supports, over the brake booster and joins up (seprately) within the wiring loops of the headlamp harness, along in front of the radiator and back to the starter solenoid (with the alternator wiring).

This evidence suggests two designs of this "bulb test" wire.

The manual page is dated 1-16-67, and supersedes 9-28-66. The update indicates a different wire and different wiring holders were used, shortening the route of the wire.

This shortened wire, IMHO, most likely did NOT pass through the wiring retainer strap as shown in View-B of the A.M. (this opinion should be verified, if at all possible)

If anyone has any input to this, please add your comments, since so much is unknown about the exact details of these systems.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: J_Speegle on July 14, 2014, 07:04:11 PM
Another uncovered detail about these systems. Maybe others can shed some light from examples they have with this Safety Convenience Control System and/or Speed Control as to actual assembly line change-over dates.
..................

IF your going to get into the speed/cruise control subject you'll have to consider that there was more than one supplier/design used through out the year also.

Just to complicate things ;)   it is 67 production  ::)  nothing come easy
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 14, 2014, 08:44:23 PM
IF your going to get into the speed/cruise control subject you'll have to consider that there was more than one supplier/design used through out the year also

Not really, just the Osborn manual mentioned the cruise control also connected to this particular jumper wire from the solenoid.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ceggar on July 15, 2014, 12:28:34 PM
What was the color of the female connector and wire going to the solenoid of the early production models?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 18, 2014, 06:58:52 PM
What was the color of the female connector and wire going to the solenoid of the early production models?

Fortunately, my car is apart for restoring, so I can show both ens in one shot. The example I have uses a black 12 or 14 gage wire (cannot see the inside copper diameter) that is 131 inches OVERALL length (measured from the outside end of the eye-connector to the outside end of the 3-opening round "bullet" style connector) I see no tracer color when I examine the wire closely. See attached photo for the wiring ends.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on August 25, 2014, 09:16:17 PM
Just picked up another set of 67 lenses.  I took a few shots comparing the "in dash" wiring harness and the "in console (with A/C)" version.

Harness part numbers C7ZB-10B923-A and C7ZB-10B923-B
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on August 26, 2014, 07:47:43 AM
Just picked up another set of 67 lenses.  I took a few shots comparing the "in dash" wiring harness and the "in console (with A/C)" version.

Harness part numbers C7ZB-10B923-A and C7ZB-10B923-B

Thanks John, always good to see original examples and have part numbers. Maybe one day we can put together an Article for the Library here. Jeff had asked me at one time, but I feel we need to try and get more info about this option first, for example:

A bit of input might be needed to possibly clarify a detail of whether the 67 (or 68) Mustang could have been ordered with a stand alone "Low Fuel" light. I do not have any of the dealership order forms available for the then new 67's, but the question rose in me as I was reading an article posted in the Concours Mustang Library (near center fold of the last 2 pages of the images within the Library article)

http://concoursmustang.com/speegle/67%20Mustang/Car%20Life%20-%201967-01.pdf

Within the article, it was mentioned the Test Vehicle had a Park Brake light, a Low Fuel light and a Seat Belt light. I have seen before the stand alone Park Brake light but am not sure it came as a factory installed option as stand alone or if it were an accessory option. Either way, I have at least seen them before. The larger question here that would be nice to answer is: "Was there a stand alone Low Fuel indicator", if so, does anyone have any photos or images of it? Obviously, the Seat Belt warning seemed to be a standard option on all 67's and a stand alone outside the Convenience Control Group. The article makes no mention of a "DOOR"ajar light, and the photos indicate the car has no floor console which would have housed the Convenience Group on an Air Conditioned 67 Mustang. With a careful look at the images in the article, you can spot the Park Brake light over the top of the headlamp switch and an easy spot of the Seat Belt light.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on August 26, 2014, 09:45:56 AM
I think it may have been a prototype car. I have a original Ford option sales catalogue that states that if AC is added and the convenience group is ordered a floor console must be too. I have seen service parts for the park brake reminder but not Door agar or low fuel.
I find it very odd on a loaded car like this there was no floor console. May have been early enough the console was not ready. I wish the photos were colored and bigger.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on August 26, 2014, 11:24:57 AM
I concur with Marty, and discount quite a bit of what I see.  The confusing thing is why this took till January 67 to be published.  They were a little behind the 8 ball.

Regarding the "article", that is why I posted the pictures.  I will continue to search and document items pertaining to this option.  Picked up another 68 harness recently also.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on August 27, 2014, 02:03:40 PM
An interesting thread, here is a picture of mine, it is on a late April '67 built Jersey GT 'vert.  My Low Fuel and Seat lights are not working.  I see about what may be wrong with the Seat light, but for the Low Fuel, I am assuming there was a special fuel tank sending unit?  Mine only has one wire coming out so assume it is not correct.  Anyone know if they make these or used/NOS is the only route?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on August 27, 2014, 02:10:30 PM
NOS or original is the only way. Originals can be repaired.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on August 27, 2014, 03:32:18 PM
Anyone know if they make these or used/NOS is the only route?


A seller has had this listing for several months now going:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-Mustang-Cougar-Fuel-Sender-with-Low-Fuel-sensor-RARE-/281419583343?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4185ea0f6f&vxp=mtr

Often the thermistor on them is bad for the low fuel indicator. The thermistor is available aftermarket almost anywhere now.

You can get the sub-harness with the two wires for the fuel sender from Scott at West Coast Cougar, it is 67 only though 68 will fit. (Cougar is the same, 67 and again for the 68's though the covering is different)  If your tailight harness is correct, that single wire coming off your fuel sender should have some sort of plug or possibly a splice into where a double wire connector under the trunk mat should be. This is assuming the tailight harness is original or the option is original to your car. Hard to say so many years down the road what else may be defective, but there is a relay attached to the wiper motor for the Low Fuel light, but I don't think it ever goes bad.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: krelboyne on August 27, 2014, 06:27:12 PM
The seat belt reminder is connected to a relay, and it has a Ford number of C7AB-10B924. Basically just a momentary illuminated light at start up. Not connected to a pressure switch or to a wire in the seat belt like later years.

We (WCCC) have not had a low fuel sending unit for a 1967 XR7 for a while now. They are different from the equivalent 1968 sending unit. Smaller diameter tube 5/16 for 1967 and 3/8 for 1968, just like the hard fuel lines.

The thermisters just didn't last, but maybe 5-8 years. There is an Electronic Low Fuel indicator available, it works off of the fuel gauge.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on August 27, 2014, 10:59:13 PM
The low fuel relay uses a very strange resistor wire, whose value is not documented well.  Of the three I've seen across my bench, all three wires were broken and are so fragile that they cannot be repaired. 

I'm not sure it is worth the aggravation to get that system up and functioning correctly---it is extremely rare and finicky.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on August 28, 2014, 12:19:37 AM
You are correct a complete working system took me almost two years to complete. Nock on wood it is still working six years later.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on August 28, 2014, 10:09:43 AM
Thanks all, I have ordered the wiring from Don at WCCC, and the sending unit from John's Classic Cougars.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on August 28, 2014, 11:36:21 AM
The low fuel relay uses a very strange resistor wire, whose value is not documented well. 

My harness is out of the car and I can test this wire's resistance. (I'll try to remeber to take my DVOM home tonight) It might be good data for this thread. John @ 67gta289 might have some out also, I believe even had mentioned having a 68 harness maybe. It would be good to know. Maybe the resistor wire could be replaced with just an ordinary resistor (if the wire failed) It cannot be exactly Rocket Science...mankind hadn't (allegedly) made our way to the moon yet when these were developed ;) (circa 1964?)

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on August 28, 2014, 12:25:20 PM
It is called a thermistor which is an electronic term for a temperature sensitive resistor. It looks like a small capacitor with a metal shell and one or both leads coming from the same end. When the gas tank is more than 1/4 full (empty), the thermistor is submerged in gas which keeps it cool and the resistance is high. When the gas level is lower that the thermistor, it warms up and the resistance is low, the low fuel light goes on. There is no substitute. - http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/fm-ef008a.html - It's about $35.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on August 28, 2014, 01:45:10 PM
It is called a thermistor which is an electronic term for a temperature sensitive resistor. It looks like a small capacitor with a metal shell and one or both leads coming from the same end. When the gas tank is more than 1/4 full (empty), the thermistor is submerged in gas which keeps it cool and the resistance is high. When the gas level is lower that the thermistor, it warms up and the resistance is low, the low fuel light goes on. There is no substitute. - http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/fm-ef008a.html - It's about $35.
Jim

Jim, we were last talking about the resistor WIRE located in the Convenience Control Harness at the relay. It is a cloth or fiber-coated frail wire that initially Randy (Midlife) brought up as a problem area. Discussion was on it's resistance value.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on August 28, 2014, 04:29:11 PM
Jim, we were last talking about the resistor WIRE located in the Convenience Control Harness at the relay. It is a cloth or fiber-coated frail wire that initially Randy (Midlife) brought up as a problem area. Discussion was on it's resistance value.
Ah, I see it as the jumper between the 365A and 367 wires in the connector of harness C7ZB-10C877-A at the low fuel relay on the 67 wiring diagram. It jumps 12V from the ignition switch switched power and the thermistor lead from the tank. It looks like it's part of the "lamp test" circuit. As a resistance wire it would not be much, 5 to 10 ohms estimated (maybe less), judging from the length in the assembly drawing. It would approximate the low resistance of a low fuel level resistance from the thermistor so you would see if the lamp worked. (See my previous on how a thermistor works. There will be an open book test on Tuesday.)
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on August 28, 2014, 11:10:27 PM
That sounds about right, but I seem to remember readings about 45 ohms, or perhaps that was the specification for a similar application but a different Blue Oval product.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on September 01, 2014, 01:04:10 PM
I had a few minutes to dig out the 67 parts, not the 68, but suspect no real difference.

Picture 1 below is of the resistor wire.  This is the white dotted wire that is a short jumper (about 10") that parallels the low fuel relay coil.  The resistance is 46.4 Ohms (not bad, Randy).

Picture 2 is a quick schematic I put together.

The thermistor, when submerged in fuel, is effectively cooled off due to heat transfer, keeping the low fuel relay de-energized.

When the level is low, the thermistor heat transfer drops due to a change from liquid to air, resulting in the thermistor heating up.  As the thermistor heats up, the resistance drops enough to cause the low fuel relay to energize, which closes the contact to the low fuel lamp.

I found two sending units, a C7 and a C8.  In both cases they are an open circuit.  Before picking up another, I'll set up an experiment with potentiometers and running the system at 13VDC to determine when the relay energizes and de-energizes from a thermistor resistance perspective.

It could be that with no potential, the thermistor is completely open. 

Also in regards to the resistor wire, if you are considering replacing the wire with a resistor, I calculate 4.2 watts.   Technically a 5 watt resistor would handle it, but you have to consider the surface temperature of the resistor, and what is in proximity that can melt and catch fire.  If you look at the wire, the heat is over the 10" length rather than a contained area of a resistor.  Also the wire is covered most likely with an asbestos wrap for insulating purposes.  If I had to do something along these lines, I would go with a 10W 47 ohm wire wound resistor, and connect to a metal bracket (such as the "Z" bracket) to promote heat transfer, and make sure all other wire and plastic is at least an inch away.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on September 01, 2014, 01:58:14 PM
Thanks very much for this detail, it helps a lot.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on September 01, 2014, 04:31:07 PM
I used the 67 wiring diagram vs the 68 wiring diagram which are (slightly) different. The 68 appears to be what you've sketched.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on September 01, 2014, 04:33:06 PM
Jim, I would not mind if you could post the two diagrams you are referring to.  The diagram I made was actually from the harness and accessories from a Dec 66 car, not a 68 MY diagram.  John
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on September 01, 2014, 05:28:16 PM
They're in the 67 and 68 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manuals, pg 107 for 67, pg 98 for 68. The harnesses appear to be the same, the internal connections of the relay are different.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on September 01, 2014, 10:07:20 PM
I thought about a power resistor as well, but decided it would be a heat issue with surrounding wire insulation if any got close enough to contact it.  I also thought about using a looooong run of pink resistor wire or another long run of alternator lamp resistor wire but the length would be on the order of 27 feet! 

This is one resistor wire that I simply have not found a good substitute for the original application.

Interesting that you show another resistor inside the relay (am I interpreting that correctly?)  Along these lines, does anyone know what the purpose of this resistor wire is?  I suspect it is for the initial power application to light up the bulb to ensure the owner that the system is operational.  Without knowing the details of the actual relay (I've never had one in my possession), I'm a bit dumbfounded.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on September 01, 2014, 10:41:45 PM
Yes it should light briefly to proof the light.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on September 02, 2014, 12:28:27 AM
Interesting that you show another resistor inside the relay (am I interpreting that correctly?)  Along these lines, does anyone know what the purpose of this resistor wire is? 
It's actually the coil of the relay. The accepted schematic symbol looks like an extended spring. It does have resistance plus another measurable commodity called reluctance. A coil "fights" the voltage activating it, and "fights" when that voltage is removed. That's the simple answer.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on September 02, 2014, 07:08:37 AM
Great!  I thought that was the case, so I'm now more comfortable than before telling customers that without that resistor wire, the system will still work but won't light the bulb when power is first applied, but the low fuel light will work.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on September 02, 2014, 07:16:43 AM
As Jim said it's just representing the coil.  I took the lazy way out since I was using Excel for the diagram and not my Cad program due to my location at the time.

The light DOES go on via the connection to the starter relay.  It should be brief - or exactly as long as you are turning over the engine (starter relay energized).

The relay is a simple one with an SPDT contact (single pole double contact).  The normally closed contact routes power from the starter relay, and the normally opened contact is for an actual low fuel condition.

With that background, and since the relay coil has a resistance of about 44 ohms, we should ask why the parallel resistance is needed.  The resistor is NOT part of the lamp test circuit.  The resistor DOES drop the overall resistance in half (as shown on the diagram), and doubles the current flow to the thermistor.

My thought is that the thermistor size is such that it needs that amount of current to heat up enough to "switch" (drop in resistance) to pull in the relay.

I will be bench testing the function with and without the resistor in a couple days.  Have a "real" job that will get in the way this week.

It could be that it works without the added resistor, but would take much more time to do the job.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on September 02, 2014, 07:31:21 AM
I figured I would bench test my low fuel light system too, using the reproduction thermistor I bought.

I know my light only worked for about a year or two after I first got the car and hadn't since about 1981. Without a wiring diagram, I found that if I grounded the wire at the tank plug, the light came on so I always felt my problem was the tank sender unit. It will be nice to see it working again :)

Education is good! I had, before getting a wiring diagram a few years ago, always thought there was some sort of "grounding pellet" floating in what I now know as  the thermistor, and thought it probably only needed cleaned of varnish. I also wondered how it didn't "spark" and possibly ignite!

Always good to figure things out with edjucation and remove the guess work.

Color codes on the wiring diagram would be nice in your images, John. Other than that...Spot-On!

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on September 02, 2014, 08:50:50 AM
I'll add wire numbers and colors the next go around. Also will add thermistor curves (resistance vs temp at different voltage levels) plus Thevinin equivalent data for the curious.

Tonight I'll add some pics of the thermistor. My recollection is that they are soldered to ensure a good connection.

Grounding the wire at the sender resulting in the light coming on is a great Solomon's Sword troubleshooting technique.  Divide and conquer.

In your case the problem is most likely in the tank (thermistor or circuit/ground) but could also be an open resistor wire.  The wire was added for a reason, nobody including Ford adds stuff for no reason.  The resistor wire is easy to check. A nominal 23 ohms plugged into the relay, 46 separated.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on September 02, 2014, 10:01:11 AM
The resistor wire is easy to check. A nominal 23 ohms plugged into the relay, 46 separated.

;)
My recollection is that they are soldered to ensure a good connection.

Grounding the wire at the sender resulting in the light coming on is a great Solomon's Sword troubleshooting technique.  Divide and conquer.


Yes, soldered onto the fuel sender so the tip of the thernistor points towards the bottom of the tank. (wire comes out the top) I have a 67 type and a 68 type. The only difference is the size of the fuel line tubing (and the engineering part number)
 
[/quote]

I'll add wire numbers and colors the next go around. Also will add thermistor curves (resistance vs temp at different voltage levels) plus Thevinin equivalent data for the curious.

Tonight I'll add some pics of the thermistor. .

Always good to have more information. Thanks John!

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on September 04, 2014, 08:15:03 AM
An interesting thread, here is a picture of mine, it is on a late April '67 built Jersey GT 'vert. 

OFF TOPIC:
Looking at the picture of Mikes Radio and console face...Are the rear radio knobs correct for Mikes April 67 NJ build? Most 67's I had seen had the "tab" type knob on the tone and mock fader (with AM radio) I thought the type in Mike's picture is correct for 68's. (maybe I need educated here)


ON TOPIC:
Are Mike's lenses "original" or the reproduction? (his example has a "SEAT" not a "BELT" lamp)  Are they all installed in the correct locations for his build date & plant ???

Reference http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=49672;topic=8554.0
Marty's San Jose built (early type) system is the same as mine. The lamps are in different locations than Mike's are. Maybe setup wrong or different per assembly date or plant? Everything I understand about the system says Mike's is incorrect. Always room for more clarification. A later 67 Console I had that had all of the later style lenses also had the lamps in the same location as my car and Marty's but I never had any build info on that console.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on September 04, 2014, 10:19:50 AM
Good questions, I would also be interested in the answers.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on September 07, 2014, 12:52:46 PM
Bueller?  Bueller?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on September 07, 2014, 02:46:20 PM
ON TOPIC:
Are Mike's lenses "original" or the reproduction? (his example has a "SEAT" not a "BELT" lamp)  Are they all installed in the correct locations for his build date & plant ???
 Richard
I do not believe that the indicator that says Seat is correct all of mine 67 and 68 say Belt   . I will check on the locations.
Marty   
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on September 07, 2014, 04:05:05 PM
Bueller?  Bueller?

We might also be looking for input on the radio knobs if possible...and Mike, why does your radio crooked? Is that a camera angle or maybe the mounting holes of the radio plate hogged out? (just asking...you did want to get this concours correct, right?)

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on September 07, 2014, 05:47:11 PM
Must be the camera angle, when I look at it straight on, it is square and straight across.  However, it doesn't work, but guess nothing gets tested in judging anyway, right?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: mikeljgt500kr on September 09, 2014, 12:33:25 AM
So far the research I have been able to do shows the single bar above the radio (non-console cars) had "Belt" instead of "Seat", in early cars.  However, I have seen no firm evidence that the console cars, especially late ones like mine, had that or that the positions were any different than mine.  Anyone have evidence to the contrary to present?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on November 20, 2014, 06:50:00 AM
New images uploaded in the Library section of this forum last week that make reference to the early design "bulb test" lead that initially (or at least in San Jose) ran along the route of the headlamp harness instead of running back along the right hand strut brace as pictured in the Osborne Assembly manuals.

These images may assist in the correct layout of that wire.

My example has a clip located over the brake booster, slid over the pinch weld of the cowl, to hold the wire up at that location. A picture would (or could) be taken upon request, but at this time, it is in a stack of sacked "items to be detailed" and difficult to get a quick picture. I will try and upload the image later (when I go through these items again)

Refer to Replies #23-27 in this thread for more details of this discussion.

This lead was also used in the Cruise Control installations seemingly for both factory installed and/or dealer installed cruise controls. It would stand to reason that while doing an cruise control installation into a car with Convenience Control, that either the early or the late design "bulb test" lead would be tied into instead of running the kit supplied lead (which is presumably the long or "early" type, looking at the article in the Library)

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: gwells67 on May 21, 2015, 12:09:23 PM
Hi All,
Me again.  After almost a year I am back on this project.  Good news is you guys were spot on my Door light issue.  I took the door switch out and the tab was out of alignment; fixed it right up.

Now on to my question:  It seems like my seatbelt and parking brake light housings are grounding themselves to the console.  That seems to cause them to not work properly.  When I pull them out and just let them hang, they work as expected.  Any thoughts?

It also seems like I have an issue with my gauge cluster (maybe related?).  This may not be related but there seems to be some really smart people on this thread so maybe you can help :)  Basic problem is as follows:
-Fuel Gauge doesn't work
-Temp Gauge doesn't work
-Instrument voltage regulator getting very hot
-Fuel light comes on when the car starts (the test) but does not come on when out of fuel..I have not taken the sending unit it out of the car though.

What I've tried:
-New Instrument voltage regulator
-Extra ground wire from cluster to car

Other tests I've run
-Sending unit tests (they seem fine)
--Fuel sending unit has 2 wires and I can get both the fuel light and gauge to react.
--I believe that one wire to the fuel sending is  full 14v, the other has trace voltage?
--Putting power to the temp sending wire will also pin the temp gauge
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on May 21, 2015, 10:13:48 PM
Quote
Other tests I've run
-Sending unit tests (they seem fine)
--Fuel sending unit has 2 wires and I can get both the fuel light and gauge to react.
--I believe that one wire to the fuel sending is  full 14v, the other has trace voltage?
--Putting power to the temp sending wire will also pin the temp gauge
That doesn't sound right, unless the green/yellow wire that is full 12V is the low fuel line.  I'm not entirely clear how that system functions, but I believe when the fuel is low, that sensor reads ground.  Neither line should be full voltage, but I could be wrong.

You never want to put full power to the temp sending wire to test the gauges; only ground (briefly) the sending unit line and the gauge should plug.

I'd check your temp gauge for an internal short to ground and pull the low fuel relay out of its connector for trouble-shooting.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: luddde on June 10, 2015, 01:59:33 PM
Hi folks! Does anyone have a picture of those early lamps lighted up? Have searched my ass off around the web, but haven´t found any pics. Also, are the lenses convex or flat and are they all black when not lighted?
Thanx/ Oskar
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 10, 2015, 02:28:46 PM
Here is a sample of the PARK lens. PARK and SEAT are red font when lit, black when not lit. FUEL & DOOR are blue font when lit, blackout when not
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on June 10, 2015, 02:30:58 PM
I have them in my car and will post some pics unless some else has some. The lenses are flat and appear black when not lit. You might see them in some 67 Ford sales brochures.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 10, 2015, 02:38:00 PM
I have them in my car and will post some pics unless some else has some. The lenses are flat and appear black when not lit. You might see them in some 67 Ford sales brochures.
Marty

To add to Mart's description, the LATER version used the same bezels (chrome trim) however there was white font visable on the lense without being lit and ALL 4 were RED, the blue light special went away ;)

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 10, 2015, 02:47:29 PM
Thanks for asking this question, I didn't realize I had no pictures of the details you asked about. Good to add images for others to see.
Here are some images I had saved a link to from an eBay listing several weeks ago. Fortunately, I still had the link available to scab some images from.

This should help a lot.


ONE POINT OF CLARITY: the picture of the SIDE VIEW is for an Early COUGAR, not Mustang. The spring clips are closer to the chrome bezels on the Mustang specific lenses. VERY early Cougars, before the XR7 was offered, could have had this option too with the blackout lenses, but Cougars had a padded console so the lamps were built different to accommodate the padding. After the XR7 entered the scene, my understanding is this option was not offered on the base model Cougar any longer. Maybe somebody better versed in COUGAR could verify that bit of info.
 
Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: luddde on June 11, 2015, 03:42:17 AM
Thanks for the answers and the pics! First time I ever get to see those. The font look surprisingly sharp and crisp and they sure look nicer than the white-on-red ones.
So, more questions. I´ve understood that the order for the white-on-red is Lh upper: BELTS Rh upper: PARK Lh lower: DOOR and Rh lower: FUEL on A/C cars. Is this correct, and is it correct also for the early lights? And is it the same order left to right for non A/C cars?
Can someone take the measurement of the diameter of the actual plastic lens, the height of the letters and the length of the words? This would make my day.
Thanx/ Oskar
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 11, 2015, 07:42:22 AM
I have no way of accurately measuring the items you ask about. I cannot imagine making your own would be cost effective unless you made several hundred sets for sale and "eventually" recover your investment.

Do an ebay search for "Mustang Convenience" and not only are the lights I showed images STILL available (at time of writing this) but the seller has a few individual lamps available too. My suggestion is to hunt and buy a few or a set. The ones for sale now on the 'Bay have been there a few weeks now. Message him and make a reasonable offer. The Cougar lamps can be used if you add a washer or two on the backside to shim them. Otherwise, the lenses and bezels are correct at least.

I say this because I spent about 9 years hunting basically 1 early style FUEL lens, trying to be "cheap" and get one from a set or parts and pieces to no avail. FINDING them was the hard part, trying to be cheap only caused me to loose out on the availability virtually every time. I ended up figuring out that some things you just have to go "All In" on, if you wish to succeed in obtaining them. In the end, last year I finally got my lens PLUS I ended up with a better PARK lens AND I got almost if not all of my investments back. Some things never loose their value. This is One of those such things.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on June 11, 2015, 09:02:39 AM
Here is a picture and information out of the 67 Ford option sales catalogue.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: luddde on June 11, 2015, 06:32:58 PM
Thanks a lot for all your answers and all the pictures! Still wondering about the location and if someone have the opportunity to take the measurements I mentioned earlier i would be very greatful.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 11, 2015, 07:06:48 PM
Still wondering about the location ...

Use the "Search" feature under heading of 1967-1968, try and locate the thread on Conveinence Control Panel Details, I believe somewhere in that rather lengthy thread has the locations mentioned. You will learn at least a thing or two more by doing so, I promise  ;)
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on June 11, 2015, 07:09:37 PM
Regarding order, they are from left to right, non console installation, as viewed from the front; red, blue, green, yellow.  For consoles, when viewed from front, are; red upper left, blue lower left, yellow upper right, green lower right.

Refer to the pictures to get the context of the four colors mentioned.

Now to map the four colors to the lenses.

yellow = park
green = fuel
blue = door
red = belt

This data is for 67, I don't have 68. 

As far as lense diameters and font detail, that will take a while as I have a lot of irons in the fire.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 08, 2015, 11:36:48 AM
NEW pictures as I try and piece things back together. These might help others. THIS IS FOR THE 67 MUSTANG CONVENIENCE HARNESS, including the door harness. I understand the 68 system to be slightly different, so this is for 67-ONLY.

I did not get a chance to organize these like I would like.
What is pictured are door latches and their switches. Aftermarket Alloy Metals Door Harness (deluxe interior & w/door speakers), a sketch I drew up with several closer shots of the same sketching showing lengths of the main harness (currently NOT reproduced) Images of the varying wires that are coming out of this harness, the low fuel relay and seatbelt timer. The ends of my harness are missing, plugs are cut off. The tape measure is used to demonstrate the total length of the dash harness
(92 inches)  the sketches show how far from the left end A-pillar connectors, how far away the respective wiring might protrude from the harness.

BTW, IF SOMEBODY HAS IMAGES OF THESE ENDS WITH THEIR FACTORY CONNECTIONS THAT WOULD HELP TO ME and I am sure others too!

Feel free to discuss what might be in these pictures. Try using the image number to limit confusion if responding to a particular image or images.

Richard
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: J_Speegle on July 08, 2015, 05:02:24 PM
BTW, IF SOMEBODY HAS IMAGES OF THESE ENDS WITH THEIR FACTORY CONNECTIONS THAT WOULD HELP TO ME and I am sure others too!

Richard - which ends are your interested in seeing pictures of?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on July 08, 2015, 05:38:30 PM
I could use images of BOTH ends of the CONVENIENCE UNDERDASH HARNESS, at the A-pillars. There should be a "bullet" style connection for the door ajar light on each side and then another connection for the LOW FUEL (believe it is a push-lock with pin, not a bullet style) on drivers side for coupes/fastback. Until I understand differently, convertibles seem to have the low fuel run down the passengers side, coupe/fastback low fuel wire runs drivers side as part of the taillight harness.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on July 08, 2015, 10:01:35 PM
At each end, you should have a yellow molded female bullet connector for the black/violet door ajar wire.

I know what the low fuel line ends for a 68, and it may be different for the 67, as you suggest.  For 68, the mate for the low fuel line goes to a two pin plug connector that has its other line being the normal fuel line gauge.  That plug attaches to the low fuel tail-light harness.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: denonito on September 07, 2015, 04:08:49 PM
BELT or BELTS?
Don't know the exact car from which my configuration came. I left the lights in the console bezel, but wiring has been in a box for 30 years. I don't think I have moved lights, but they are as shown in pics. Belts and Park in white with red background, FUEL and DOOR in white w/blue background.
Harness is what came with Bezel, unfortunately only C7ZB is left of P/N. on tag :(
I'll add better pics of lights for reference, that was my phone camera.
I do appreciate when others post pics. When I was involved more in my car, It was so much more difficult to get good information. A lot of time at car shows...
I'm probably going to put it on Ebay, not sure if complete or in pieces.
I tried to track down the harnesses, sending units et al. but it seems like a task better suited for Hercules....where is that white flag Emoticon when you need it....

>>>Better picture of Park light...
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: WT8095 on September 07, 2015, 10:45:04 PM
Harness is what came with Bezel, unfortunately only C7ZB is left of P/N. on tag :(

The full P/N is C7ZB 10B923-B. Very faint, but just able to make it out with some contrast & level adjustments. The '75 MPC doesn't list this P/N, so I can't help with determining the original application.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on September 08, 2015, 07:05:29 AM
The Dec 67 MPC lists:

10B923-A as "wiring - instrument cluster warning lamp indicator panel"
10B923-B as "wiring - console panel warning lamp indicator panel"

I've got each type, and the difference is that the -B has longer wires due to the location of the lamps on the console.

This particular harness is, however, the head of the beast.  The easiest and most visible section of wiring to remove.  Takes seconds.  The rest could take more than an hour depending on the conditions.  I would guess that many procure the lights and 10B923 harness (1) not knowing that there is an A and B version, and (2) incorrectly assuming that it will plug into the main harnesses they already have.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on October 18, 2015, 07:49:12 PM
A few weeks ago, over on VMF, questions were posted in regard to the Lens colors and type of Bulbs used in the 1967 Safety Convenience Panels. After doing some research in my resources, I replied with the following information. Since we have a pretty good thread here already, I thought it would be good to add to it with what I found.

According to the 1960-68 MPC, which has revisions from 1967 and 1968. the PARK" lens was "RED" for both early and late 67's. The "BELT" was also "RED" both early and late. Prior to 12/01/66, the "FUEL" was "GREEN" and the "DOOR" was "BLUE". Between 12/01/66 and 5/15/67, the "FUEL" and "DOOR" were both "BLUE". After 5/15/67, all lenses were "RED".

As far as the bulbs go, I have heard separate comments that the "FUEL" and the "DOOR" both used "flasher bulbs". Hopefully, the following will “straighten” this out :

The 1967 MPC - the bulb section shows nothing for the Safety Convenience bulbs.

The 1960-68 MPC, however, gives a good history :

Low Fuel and Seat Belt Warning - Prior to 9/06/66 # 1891 (14 volt, elongated glass, 3.4 watts ); after 9/06/66, # 1445 (14.4 volt, round glass, 1.87 watt. I believe that this change reflects trying to reduce the melting of the lenses by using a higher voltage, less wattage bulb, plus "moving it slightly farther away from the lens by using the round bulb instead of the elongated one.

Door Ajar and Parking Brake Warning - No changes are shown during production year. Bulb # 256 (C4SZ-13466-A) is specified. This is a 14 volt, 0.27 amp (3.8 watt), elongated glass, flasher bulb. Apparently since it was a flasher and not on constantly, Ford felt there was no reason to go with the round glass version like they did for the Low Fuel and the Seat Belt Warning. If you are concerned, the round glass version is # 257. However, I would first check to be sure it fits into the opening provided for the elongated # 256 bulbs.

The 1965-72 MPC “mirrors” what is shown in the 1960-68 MPC.

I also decided to check other resources that I have, and here is what I found :

1) The Electrical Assembly Manual - No Listing of any Bulb #'s.

2) Shop Manual (First Printing - March 1967) - For "Warning Lights, Panel, or Lamp Kits", only notes Seat Belt Warning Light ( # 1891) and Parking Brake Warning Light (# 257).

3) Service Specification Booklet (First Printing - August 1966) - Same as Shop Manual except shows # 251 instead of # 257 for Parking Brake Warning Light (this is obviously a misprint as a # 251 is a "miniature flange base bulb", and would not fit).

4) Owners Manual (First Printing - August 1966 Printing) - Shows for "Safety Convenience Package", 6 (?) - # 1895 bulbs are required. I can understand the #1895 changing to a # 1891 (the # 1891 has less wattage, thus less chance of melting the lenses), but "6 required" ?

Personally, with all of the apparent confusion/ indecision, I would rely on what is shown in the 1960-68 MPC (as maybe they had figured it out by then) :

# 1445 for Seat Belt Warning and Low Fuel

# 256 for Door Ajar and Parking Brake Warning

Hope this has been "enlightening".

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on October 18, 2015, 08:43:46 PM
I've yet to ever see or here of a GREEN "FUEL" lamp. Interesting but I wonder if ever a green lens was ever produced. Mine are blackout  style (no white font), and only 2 are blue and 2 are red. I think I have read the bolb chang-up and honestly, no matter what, I would take absolutely NO CHANCE trying to use a larger wattage bulb no matter what the car was delivered with. Honestly, I would advocate use of LED bulbs for this option. These lenses are fragile already, they do not need any more HEAT! (I suppose if somebody never hooked up a "live battery" to it, it wouldn't matter.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on October 18, 2015, 08:45:37 PM
Bob,

Many thanks for the research and organized report out.

Richard,

I've never seen a green lens either.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on October 18, 2015, 09:30:38 PM
Richard : Good idea on the LED's (who would ever look at the bulbs), and probably the safest bet. Obviously the warping/ melting was a problem as they kept going to less wattage bulbs. But, they didn't have the "luxury" of switching to LED's back then.

Richard and John, I also have never seen, nor even heard of someone having, a Green Lens. However, we all know that many things put in the MPC's may have been "thoughts" that were never carried through. This of course brings up another "burr in my side" ; if that's the case, why didn't they correct that when the 1965-72 MPC was printed ?? I think I could ask that question of many items. Maybe it was just an "inconvenience: to do so.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on October 18, 2015, 10:14:27 PM
I have never seen a green fuel lens either. Perhaps you mistook the wire socket identifier color green as a green lens. The fuel socket is green.
Marty
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on October 18, 2015, 10:46:23 PM
Marty : See attached. Also, if you're wondering, the Parking Brake Warning Light is covered separately by Part # 10A840. It's my opinion that the 12/01/66 change also reflected the change from backlit to white printed fonts.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on October 19, 2015, 12:35:34 AM
Our 11-04-66 Fuel lens is Blue.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on October 19, 2015, 01:13:58 AM
Marty : Doesn't surprise me at all. Like I sais, one can't believe everything you read, especially in an MPC.  I would sure hope that anyone who can contradict our premise, would come "Fordward" and be heard.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: denonito on October 28, 2015, 06:54:33 PM
That is an interesting picture Bob. Twice they refer to a BELT Lens and Bezel. The correct legend is BELTS, right? with the "S"....a little sloppy FORD....
Does anyone know why Scott Drake used SEAT for the reproductions?
Did they get these mixed up with the '65 T-Bird lights or ?

Jeff


Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on November 01, 2015, 10:19:36 PM
Jeff : Yes, you are correct; it should be "BELTS", with the "S". What makes this especially interesting is that it says "BELT" in not only the 1968 printing of the 1960-68 MPC, but again in the 1975 printing of the 1965-72 MPC. Good proofing, huh ?

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 26, 2016, 04:49:17 PM
Fortunately, my car is apart for restoring, so I can show both ends in one shot. The example I have uses a black 12 or 14 gage wire (cannot see the inside copper diameter) that is 131 inches OVERALL length (measured from the outside end of the eye-connector to the outside end of the 3-opening round "bullet" style connector) I see no tracer color when I examine the wire closely. See attached photo for the wiring ends.

Richard

Since another member was searching for this wire, I bumped this thread to bring up the details of the early version wiring previously disscussed.

Keith, look at reply #27 of this thread. (page 2 near bottom of page)
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 03, 2016, 05:36:45 PM
A few weeks ago, over on VMF, questions were posted in regard to the Lens colors and type of Bulbs used in the 1967 Safety Convenience Panels. After doing some research in my resources, I replied with the following information. Since we have a pretty good thread here already, I thought it would be good to add to it with what I found.

According to the 1960-68 MPC, which has revisions from 1967 and 1968. the PARK" lens was "RED" for both early and late 67's. The "BELT" was also "RED" both early and late. Prior to 12/01/66, the "FUEL" was "GREEN" and the "DOOR" was "BLUE". Between 12/01/66 and 5/15/67, the "FUEL" and "DOOR" were both "BLUE". After 5/15/67, all lenses were "RED".

As far as the bulbs go, I have heard separate comments that the "FUEL" and the "DOOR" both used "flasher bulbs". Hopefully, the following will “straighten” this out :





The 1967 MPC - the bulb section shows nothing for the Safety Convenience bulbs.

The 1960-68 MPC, however, gives a good history :

Low Fuel and Seat Belt Warning - Prior to 9/06/66 # 1891 (14 volt, elongated glass, 3.4 watts ); after 9/06/66, # 1445 (14.4 volt, round glass, 1.87 watt. I believe that this change reflects trying to reduce the melting of the lenses by using a higher voltage, less wattage bulb, plus "moving it slightly farther away from the lens by using the round bulb instead of the elongated one.

Door Ajar and Parking Brake Warning - No changes are shown during production year. Bulb # 256 (C4SZ-13466-A) is specified. This is a 14 volt, 0.27 amp (3.8 watt), elongated glass, flasher bulb. Apparently since it was a flasher and not on constantly, Ford felt there was no reason to go with the round glass version like they did for the Low Fuel and the Seat Belt Warning. If you are concerned, the round glass version is # 257. However, I would first check to be sure it fits into the opening provided for the elongated # 256 bulbs.

The 1965-72 MPC “mirrors” what is shown in the 1960-68 MPC.

I also decided to check other resources that I have, and here is what I found :

1) The Electrical Assembly Manual - No Listing of any Bulb #'s.

2) Shop Manual (First Printing - March 1967) - For "Warning Lights, Panel, or Lamp Kits", only notes Seat Belt Warning Light ( # 1891) and Parking Brake Warning Light (# 257).

3) Service Specification Booklet (First Printing - August 1966) - Same as Shop Manual except shows # 251 instead of # 257 for Parking Brake Warning Light (this is obviously a misprint as a # 251 is a "miniature flange base bulb", and would not fit).

4) Owners Manual (First Printing - August 1966 Printing) - Shows for "Safety Convenience Package", 6 (?) - # 1895 bulbs are required. I can understand the #1895 changing to a # 1891 (the # 1891 has less wattage, thus less chance of melting the lenses), but "6 required" ?

Personally, with all of the apparent confusion/ indecision, I would rely on what is shown in the 1960-68 MPC (as maybe they had figured it out by then) :

# 1445 for Seat Belt Warning and Low Fuel

# 256 for Door Ajar and Parking Brake Warning

Hope this has been "enlightening".

Bob

Here are sources for both bulbs. Two or three of us should get together and buy a box of each, then split them.
#1445  http://www.genesislamp.com/14milibu19.html
#256    http://www.genesislamp.com/02milibu11.html

                                                                                            -Keith
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on July 05, 2016, 10:09:26 PM
Here are pictures of an unmolested 31,000 1967 coupe with the option. This is the one Donald Farr wrote an article about.
This vehicle has the long run solenoid to firewall feed. It is taped with the cloth/ black tar tape at 9-12" intervals to the headlamp/charging harness.
The clip on this vehicle is different than the C3SB-14A163-B clip. I am hoping to have pictures tomorrow. Here are the others I have. 11/66 SJ coupe 390 Deluxe interior vehicle with safety convenience group. I have seen the vehicle in person, but now have to rely on the owner in Florida for pictures.
I hope this helps others as well.

Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on July 05, 2016, 11:11:49 PM
As some are tight-lipped with information pertinent to the convenience group, here are pictures of an unmolested 33,000 1967 coupe with the option.
 
I hope this helps others, being some aren't willing to help.

What is that supposed to mean?  I sent you guys pictures and two emails. I never got any response from you Keith.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: Johno29 on November 18, 2017, 09:47:21 PM
Hello — does anyone have pics on where exactly to mount the parking brake switch? I am new to posting, I hope this is the right place to ask... Thanks!
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on November 18, 2017, 09:53:12 PM
Welcome to the site.  This is a perfect place to ask the question - it adds detail to the post to make it more complete.

Hope these pictures help.

John
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on November 19, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Yes, Welcome ! To compliment John's pictures of actual installations, I am attaching a copy of the Installation Instructions (IS 2549) for the 1967 Mustang Accessory Parking Brake Warning Light as well as one for a Full Size Ford (IS 1832). While of course the wiring is different for the Safety Convenience Warning Light, the attachment to the Parking Brake Assembly is the same.

I have included the instructions for the Full Size Fords in order to show the differences in case someone is thinking of using this instead of the one especially for the Mustang. The main difference is that the switch was self-contained with the bracket (very similar to the 1965-66 Warning Light) instead of a separate nylon piece with a brass contact strip that had to have a hole drilled (if one was not present) in the Parking brake assembly and a sheet metal screw threaded into it. The full size Passenger car method had been used since 1959.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: Johno29 on December 15, 2017, 05:45:42 PM
Thank you guys for responding to me. Sorry for my delay, I didnt see this until yesterday. I am still learning this blog-post -room stuff. 😎. The pics were awesome. I have everything up and working except for the low fuel relay. I have noted that it will be unreliable once I do get it installed, but I’m wondering if anyone has a pic or could tell me what I’m looking for to plug lead from harness into rear light connection. To make things more interesting, I have a 67 convertible and noticed in this pretty detailed thread that converts may run down right side and not left (driver) side. The harness I have seems to be set up to go down the driver side. I can extend connection to run down passengers side if need be. I do have the repop fuel sender with thermistor I purchased from WCCougar, and I have the 3-prong connector from sender to hook into tail lamp harness. Where can I find the connection near dash to connect to rear tail light? I hope My question makes sense. And again, thank you both very much for replying to me regarding brake light relay.  Regards, John
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on December 15, 2017, 05:59:39 PM
... I have a 67 convertible and noticed in this pretty detailed thread that converts may run down right side and not left (driver) side. The harness I have seems to be set up to go down the driver side. I can extend connection to run down passengers side if need be. I do have the repop fuel sender with thermistor I purchased from WCCougar, and I have the 3-prong connector from sender to hook into tail lamp harness. Where can I find the connection near dash to connect to rear tail light? I hope My question makes sense. And again, thank you both very much for replying to me regarding brake light relay.  Regards, John

Convertibles in 68, possibly others in 68 also, run down the right side (my experience on 68's are only with 1 convertible example)

On 67's it is an integral part of the taillight harness and the connector is near the A-Pillar, next to other taillight connectors.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: Johno29 on December 15, 2017, 06:55:32 PM
Thank you Richard. I saw one bullet connector near A pillar area, is there a color of wire I should look for?  I am not at shop right now, but will poke around further near A pillar this weekend.

John
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on December 15, 2017, 07:14:51 PM
John,
Are you familiar with the Mustang Assembly Manuals? A quick scan of your posts did not indicate your car's year, but you will find both 1967 and 1968 Electrical Manuals available. They show how the electrical components and wiring was done. There are manuals for the body, chassis, interior and engines (not 68) as well. Also, get into the habit of listing your car's year, plant, engine, build date and options. It makes answering questions easier.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on December 15, 2017, 08:59:18 PM
The low fuel wire color is green/white.  All 67's had the low fuel line run down the driver's side; all 68's ran down the passenger side.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: Johno29 on December 16, 2017, 12:14:09 AM
Thanks. It’s green/white off the harness, I’ll look for same tomorrow.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: krelboyne on March 15, 2018, 01:23:35 PM

As far as the bulbs go, I have heard separate comments that the "FUEL" and the "DOOR" both used "flasher bulbs". Hopefully, the following will “straighten” this out :

Door Ajar and Parking Brake Warning - No changes are shown during production year. Bulb # 256 (C4SZ-13466-A) is specified. This is a 14 volt, 0.27 amp (3.8 watt), elongated glass, flasher bulb. Apparently since it was a flasher and not on constantly, Ford felt there was no reason to go with the round glass version like they did for the Low Fuel and the Seat Belt Warning. If you are concerned, the round glass version is # 257. However, I would first check to be sure it fits into the opening provided for the elongated # 256 bulbs.

# 256 for Door Ajar and Parking Brake Warning

Hope this has been "enlightening".

Bob

Here are some pictures of the OEM G-E 256 and G-E 257 bulbs. Both showing the bi-metal strip which heats up and creates the 'flash'.
Our shop is unaware of new bulbs with this feature.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on March 15, 2018, 02:06:23 PM
Here are some pictures of the OEM G-E 256 and G-E 257 bulbs. Both showing the bi-metal strip which heats up and creates the 'flash'.
Our shop is unaware of new bulbs with this feature.

Scott : Let you become "aware" :  http://www.bulbtown.com/256_MINIATURE_BULB_BA9S_BASE_FLASHER_p/b256.htm

                                                  http://www.bulbtown.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=257

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on March 15, 2018, 02:56:29 PM
I actually purchased these bulbs several years ago, but in checking BulbTown's site, they are still shown as available. Interestingly, on the box of 257's, the end not shown in my pictures has a bar code on it with the words "Order # 257", but on the end shown in my pictures, under the "257" sticker is stamped "503". Neither of the bulbs have any markings on their bases.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: krelboyne on March 15, 2018, 04:57:11 PM
Thanks Bob for your pictures. Weird, the Bulb Town pictures do not show the bi-metal strip.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on March 15, 2018, 11:22:00 PM
As for the convienience group. With the replacement of the sending unit and replacement with solid state ELFI from West Coast Cougar, is there any reason the check light wouldn't come when the ignition is energized?  Does the resistance wire factor in with the function of the circuit as far as the proof portion?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on March 15, 2018, 11:27:00 PM
As for the convienience group. With the replacement of the sending unit and replacement with solid state ELFI from West Coast Cougar, is there any reason the check light wouldn't come when the ignition is energized?  Does the resistance wire factor in with the function of the circuit as far as the proof portion?
I don't believe so.  There's quite a discussion about how this circuitry works on the classic cougar community forum.  One person spent quite a bit of time trying to get his proof circuit to work and it turned out his thermister was bad in that it never had a path to ground, IIRC.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on March 16, 2018, 12:26:38 AM
Thank you, Randy. Can you link me to that forum?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on March 16, 2018, 06:09:25 AM
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=17477.msg111175#msg111175
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on March 16, 2018, 08:08:20 AM
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=17477.msg111175#msg111175 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=17477.msg111175#msg111175)
That's the one.  Isn't this the Cougar Classic Community Forum?  Oh my...my bad.  Guys and Gals, don't grow old and forget something or another...
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on April 07, 2018, 12:09:43 PM
In John's (67gta289) and my continued efforts to assemble information in order to provide a comprehensive Article on all aspects (history, parts, installation, testing, troubleshooting, etc.) of the 1967 (and hopefully the 1968) Mustang Safety Convenience System, an item has surfaced for which we are requesting verification with documentation, and hoping that there are some of those reading this that can be of help.

We know, based on many examples that John has documented by pictures, as well as by wiring diagrams, that on early 1967 Models (prior to 01/16/67), the Low Fuel Light "proof wire" (the Black wire, 9C877, that goes from the Red pigtail at the Firewall, to the Starter side of the Starter Solenoid), is routed along the Driver's side, through the Radiator support, and then back through the Radiator support to the Starter Solenoid (as shown in the wiring schematic attached, from the 1967 Wiring Diagrams Manual).

However, in looking at the 1967 Electrical Assembly Manual, page E7 8618-3, dated 01/16/67, Supersedes 09/28/66, this wire (now noted C7ZB-14N322-A) is routed from the Firewall, along the Passenger side Front Fender Apron to Dash Brace, to the Starter Solenoid. This would imply that cars built after 01/16/67, or shortly thereafter, should exhibit this routing. Yet John has an example of an April 14, 1967 build that shows the "proof wire" routed along the Driver's side as previously described.

If anyone has a 1967 with a Factory, documented Safety Convenience System, built after 01/16/67, please Reply with how your Low Fuel Light proof wire is routed. Please also include the first 8 characters of your Warranty plate number, and your build date.

A similar page (E8 8618-3, dated 09/20/67, Supersedes 08/11/67) is also shown in the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual, showing the routing of the proof wire on the Passenger side. This would tend to imply (unless there were further revisions to this drawing that note otherwise), that all 68's had the proof wire routed on the Passenger side.
As both John and I have 67's, our knowledge of 1968's with the Safety Convenience System Option is limited. If you have a 1968 with known Factory Safety Convenience System, please Reply noting the routing of your proof wire. Again, Please include the first 8 characters of your Warranty plate number, and your build date.

Hopefully, this will provide us with some answers, as opposed to more questions.

Thanks for your help.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 07, 2018, 12:38:45 PM
I've often wondered as much WHEN the lenses changed from the blackout lenses, 2 each of red and blue, to the "ALL RED" w/white font, found in later 67's and ALL 68's. Perhaps that detail aligns somewhere similar to the proof-wire change-over. If it is another date, as with every one of the thousands of 1967 Running Changes, it shouldn't be excluded from an article.

BTW, I have MANY images o my early 67 system still off the car and easily checked for needed details AND I have images of items I used to have that were removed from a 68 convertible. I do not have details on the 68 car more than "68 Convertible", I do still have an underdash harness kicking around for that car though.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on April 07, 2018, 01:29:12 PM
Richard : I believe that the 2 attachments might answer your question. The way I read it, the change from "backlit" to Front Lettered occurred 12/01/66, and the change to all Red Lenses occurred 05/15/67.

Since you have a complete harness "loose" right now, there are a couple of dimensions you may be able to help with (possibly more later). Neither John nor I have an original Low Fuel Light "proof circuit" black wire. In addition, I do not have the Red pigtail for it that goes through the Firewall, and John's is installed. Could you be so kind as to measure the length of the Black wire (between the end connectors) that runs from the Red pigtail to the Starter side of the Starter Relay, and the length of the Red pigtail from the Low Fuel Relay plug to its bullet connector, and the location of the firewall grommet ? Also, could you confirm the connector on the firewall end of the black wire ; the Assembly Manual and wiring diagrams show it as a 1 x 2 female bullet connector, yet all of the ones John has pictures of ate a 1 x 3 female bullet connector.

Thanks for your help.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 07, 2018, 01:44:57 PM
Richard : I believe that the 2 attachments might answer your question. The way I read it, the change from "backlit" to Front Lettered occurred 12/01/66, and the change to all Red Lenses occurred 05/15/67.

Since you have a complete harness "loose" right now, there are a couple of dimensions you may be able to help with (possibly more later). Neither John nor I have an original Low Fuel Light "proof circuit" black wire. In addition, I do not have the Red pigtail for it that goes through the Firewall, and John's is installed. Could you be so kind as to measure the length of the Black wire (between the end connectors) that runs from the Red pigtail to the Starter side of the Starter Relay, and the length of the Red pigtail from the Low Fuel Relay plug to its bullet connector, and the location of the firewall grommet ? Also, could you confirm the connector on the firewall end of the black wire ; the Assembly Manual and wiring diagrams show it as a 1 x 2 female bullet connector, yet all of the ones John has pictures of ate a 1 x 3 female bullet connector.

Thanks for your help.
Bob

See reply # 78 and attached images to see if it helps. There are the measurements and images of mine before doing any repairs, should be most if not all of the answers to your questions, I drew up a sketch with all of these lengths. The only measurement I do not recall taking is how far back the grommet at the firewall is from the male bullet. The long-version of the "proof wire" had a single wire to 3, like John said.

Upon edit, I see the long proof wire is not there but I am sure I measured it for Keith at one time so look at my replies to anything Keith (aka 8 Barrel) may have asked.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on April 07, 2018, 04:26:50 PM
Interestingly, many of the Cougars have the convenience system built in to their harnesses.  As for the proof-out wire, all of them that I have seen and have in my collection are embedded in the headlight harness, and the wire is red.  This is the only difference between the Mustang and Cougar headlight harnesses.  So...if you are searching for a rare Mustang headlight harness with this proof-out wire, consider obtaining the Cougar version. 

I cannot confirm this statement; it is true regarding the 1969 Cougars.  None of my prior work nor inventory show a low fuel power line for 67/68 Cougar headlight harnesses.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on April 07, 2018, 09:09:32 PM
As far as I know the Mustang proof out wire was a single wire out side of the headlight harness.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 07, 2018, 09:16:59 PM
Interestingly, many of the Cougars have the convenience system built in to their harnesses.  As for the proof-out wire, all of them that I have seen and have in my collection are embedded in the headlight harness, and the wire is red.  This is the only difference between the Mustang and Cougar headlight harnesses.  So...if you are searching for a rare Mustang headlight harness with this proof-out wire, consider obtaining the Cougar version. 
As far as I know the Mustang proof out wire was a single wire out side of the headlight harness.
My take away from Randy is the wire can be extracted from a Cougar harness
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on April 07, 2018, 09:53:18 PM
As far as I know the Mustang proof out wire was a single wire out side of the headlight harness.

+1

My take away from Randy is the wire can be extracted from a Cougar harness

The only problem with "extracting" it, is that it will be the wrong color. Randy noted that it is Red in the Cougar harness, but the single wire in the Mustangs is Black.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on April 07, 2018, 10:57:45 PM
+1

The only problem with "extracting" it, is that it will be the wrong color. Randy noted that it is Red in the Cougar harness, but the single wire in the Mustangs is Black.

Bob
Paint it Black, you devils...Paint it Black...
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: jwc66k on April 08, 2018, 12:14:38 AM
Paint it Black, you devils...Paint it Black...
Use black liquid electrical tape. It's available at Home Depot, Star Bright brand.
Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on April 08, 2018, 12:46:02 PM
Interestingly, many of the Cougars have the convenience system built in to their harnesses.  As for the proof-out wire, all of them that I have seen and have in my collection are embedded in the headlight harness, and the wire is red.  This is the only difference between the Mustang and Cougar headlight harnesses.  So...if you are searching for a rare Mustang headlight harness with this proof-out wire, consider obtaining the Cougar version.
Guys: I'm going to have to retract this statement.  I went through my inventory and previous 67/68 Cougars, and none of the headlight harnesses have this low fuel power line.  I did find, however, that my 69 Cougars did have a red wire and ring connector embedded in the headlight harness, so that is what I must have been thinking. 

I'm so sorry if I led anyone astray.  I'll modify my original post.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: ruppstang on April 08, 2018, 02:43:03 PM
That makes sense, I was surprised that Ford would have included the wire for Cougar and not Mustang even though far more Cougars had the Safety Convenience System. 
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: midlife on April 08, 2018, 05:48:13 PM
It may well be included in the 67/68 Cougars; I simply have not run across a headlight harness that should include that low fuel power line as yet. 
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on April 12, 2018, 01:59:48 AM
Below is the picture of the connector measurements and the connector itself.. The black lead from the solenoid is 50% larger in diamter than the red wire with the bullet connector.

Black wire .145
Red wire .103

                                                                                                                                    -Keith
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: stangman39 on May 22, 2018, 04:54:25 PM
Hi all,

New here but have been on many other forums.
I just read thru this whole thread!  Tons of excellent info, thanks for all who put in the time.
Over the years I've had a few 67 Stangs with the CCG but not until just recently do I have one that is 100% complete!!
I know so far all the lights work except the low fuel (still trying to find the time to test it).
My parking brake light lens is cracked so I'll have to hunt a correct replacement for it (that won't break the bank!).
I have an early 67 so my lights are the 2 red and 2 blue.  They are in the console since I have factory AC.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 22, 2018, 05:05:21 PM
Hi all,

New here but have been on many other forums.
I just read thru this whole thread!  Tons of excellent info, thanks for all who put in the time.
Over the years I've had a few 67 Stangs with the CCG but not until just recently do I have one that is 100% complete!!
I know so far all the lights work except the low fuel (still trying to find the time to test it).
My parking brake light lens is cracked so I'll have to hunt a correct replacement for it (that won't break the bank!).
I have an early 67 so my lights are the 2 red and 2 blue.  They are in the console since I have factory AC.

I may have one that isn't perfect but perfectly usable. I am NOT SURE right now where it might be at but I am about 99% sure I have that lens.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: stangman39 on May 23, 2018, 10:18:29 AM
I may have one that isn't perfect but perfectly usable. I am NOT SURE right now where it might be at but I am about 99% sure I have that lens.

Cool, thanks.  No rush at all.  Not something I need to change any time soon!
Is it just the lens that can be be replaced or is the whole bulb socket and lens one piece?
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on May 23, 2018, 10:54:52 AM
Cool, thanks.  No rush at all.  Not something I need to change any time soon!
Is it just the lens that can be be replaced or is the whole bulb socket and lens one piece?

Service-wise, by Ford...it would have been the whole lamp as an assembly (without the bulb socket).
Scott Drake sells a decent bezel that helps for replacing damaged chrome, the S.D. set comes with reproduction lenses similar to the LATER style. When I service (replace) the bezels, I've just been using JB Weld and clamping them together for an overnight curing. 

I'll look for what I have, I have a few ideas where I may have stashed my leftover parts but we'll see how well my memory serves me ;)
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: stangman39 on June 10, 2018, 06:38:26 PM
Got around to tinkering some more with the Fastback today.
Attached is a pic of my low fuel wiring coming off the taillight harness near the wheelhouse.
Mine looks to be only light green, I can't see a white stripe in it.  It runs to the front side of
the fuel tank and is held in place with a loop.  There is also what looks to be a black wire running with
the green one.  I assume this is the green wire I should try grounding to see if the low fuel light works?
I assume these 2 wires connect to the fuel sender harness?  From the factory were they joined with
bullet connectors?  I think my are spliced and taped.

I did also notice what looks to be the factory wiring at the cowl under the export brace just like someone posted a pic of
not too many posts back.

Also realized my drivers open triggers the door ajar light but nothing on the pass door so I'm guessing my door switch may need to be
cleaned or adjusted.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 24, 2018, 02:33:35 PM
In relation to John's (67gta289) and my continued pursuit for information related to the 1967-68 Safety Convenience System Article which we are trying to prepare for submission in the near (hopefully) future, we are requesting input from the readers of this thread.

Specifically, this involves the Low Fuel Light Proof Wire. For those who may not know, on early 1967’s, this is a Black wire that goes from the Starter side of the Solenoid, then down to the bottom of the Radiator Support, along the bottom of the support, then up and along the Driver’s side Inner Fender Aprons toward the Master Cylinder, then toward the Firewall where it ends with a triple female bullet connector that connects to a single male bullet connector at the end of a red wire that comes through the Firewall (see first picture attached). The sole purpose of this wire is to provide momentary power to light the Low Fuel Light to show that the bulb is working.

The Low Fuel Proof Wire as shown on the illustration noted above, is shown as Basic Part Number 9C877-A ; the complete Part Number, C7ZB-9C877-A is also shown in the  January 1967 dated Parts and Accessory Catalog (MPC), and noted as 130.00” long. In addition, John has documented this “Proof Wire” on three 1967 Mustangs with Factory Safety Convenience Systems, all with build dates prior to January 1 of 1967, and all having the “Proof Wire” routed as described above.

Now for the problem ; in the 1967 Electrical Assembly Manual reproduced by Jim Osborn Productions, page E7-8618-3, Dated 1-16-67, and noted “Effective with CZV1-AF-510284” shows the “Proof Wire” as Part Number C7ZB-14N322-A, and now routed from the Starter side of the solenoid, along the Passenger side Fender Support to the.frewall. While this appears to be the routing of the “Proof Wire” on all 1968 models (for which we need confirmation), the question remains whether or not this Revision was implemented on 1967 models.
The “question” remains for several reasons ; 1) we have no documented examples of 1967 Mustangs with Factory Safety Convenience Systems built after January 1, 1967 ; 2) while the page (E7-8618-3) noted above from the 1967 Electrical Assembly Manual notes that it is effective with “C7V1-AF-510284”, we have not found how this number relates to a date ; and 3), we have found no TSB, Special Service Letter, Notification Letter, or any other Ford documentation as to when, or if, this Revision was implemented on 1967 models.

In summary, we are asking that owners of 1967 and 1968 Mustangs equipped with known Factory Safety Convenience Systems provide us the following information :

1967 Owners
1)   The routing of your Proof Wire from the Starter Solenoid to the Firewall
2)   Your car’s Build Date and Plant.
3)     If your car also has Factory Cruise Control.

1968 Owners
1)   The routing of your Proof Wire from the Starter Solenoid to the Firewall.
2)   Your car's Build Date and Plant
3)   The color of your Proof Wire (interestingly, while the 1967 Ford Wiring Diagram Manual clearly notes it as “Black”, neither the 1968 Ford Wiring Diagram Manual, nor the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual show the color of the Proof Wire).
4)  If your car also has Factory Cruise Control.

Your help in this matter will be greatly appreciated, as at least for now, it appears that this is the only way to find out approximately when, and if, this Revision occurred.

Thanks, in advance, for your help.

Bob

Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on September 25, 2018, 05:17:47 AM
Nov 1967
Proof wire RH side from soleniod, across core support to LH via harness plugs to single red male bullet with a female threee hole connector.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 25, 2018, 11:51:15 AM
Keith : Thanks for your prompt Reply. Just to be sure that I am understanding it correctly, this is not on your 67 Shelby, but on a 68 car (Nov 67 Date shown) ? Also, you are saying that the routing of the Proof Wire follows the wiring diagram I attached from the 1967 Ford Wiring Diagram Manual, and not as shown in the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual, correct ?

Thanks.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: gtamustang on September 25, 2018, 07:26:57 PM
Two for you...

1967 model year
1. Starter side of the solenoid, then down to the bottom of the radiator support, along the bottom of the support, then up and along the driver’s side inner fender aprons toward the mc, then toward the firewall where it ends with a triple female bullet connector that connects to a single male bullet connector at the end of a red wire that comes through the firewall.
2. December 10, 1966 Metuchen.

1967 model year
1. Starter side of the solenoid, along the passenger side shock tower support to the firewall where it ends with a triple female bullet connector that connects to a single male bullet connector at the end of a red wire that comes through the firewall.
2. March 21, 1967 San Jose
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 25, 2018, 09:17:23 PM
Thanks gtamustang ! That is the first documented 67 built in 67 that we have.
Good start.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on September 25, 2018, 09:21:04 PM
Keith : Thanks for your prompt Reply. Just to be sure that I am understanding it correctly, this is not on your 67 Shelby, but on a 68 car (Nov 67 Date shown) ? Also, you are saying that the routing of the Proof Wire follows the wiring diagram I attached from the 1967 Ford Wiring Diagram Manual, and not as shown in the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual, correct ?

Thanks.

Bob

Bob, Keith has reported before that he has the Convenience Group on his 67 Shelby. I am sure he simply wrote 1967 instead of his Shelby's build date of November '66
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 25, 2018, 11:33:40 PM
Richard : Yes, I knew about his 67 Shelby ; I just thought that he might have either also had a 68, or had come up with one.

Nice to "dream" anyway.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on September 27, 2018, 08:41:10 PM
Keith : Thanks for your prompt Reply. Just to be sure that I am understanding it correctly, this is not on your 67 Shelby, but on a 68 car (Nov 67 Date shown) ? Also, you are saying that the routing of the Proof Wire follows the wiring diagram I attached from the 1967 Ford Wiring Diagram Manual, and not as shown in the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual, correct ?

Thanks.

Bob
[/quote.     
Bob, Correction Nov 67. It is my vehicle.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on September 27, 2018, 08:49:33 PM
Bob, I have also had a chance to study a couple untouched vehicles with this option, one with 19,000 miles that belongs to the owner of NPD and was on display in the Ocala, Florida showroom for some time. It has the same routing of the fuel proofing wire. Right from starter solenoid, across the bottom of the core support, left side engine compartment and about half way across the firewall. It is a tripple female bullet connector. I have not seen one vehicle to date with it ran from the solenoid, down the shock tower support and to the single bullet connector centered on the top of the firewall.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 27, 2018, 10:00:10 PM
Keith : Is there anyway you can find out the Build Date of the NPD Owner's 19,000 mile example.

Thanks,

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: J_Speegle on September 28, 2018, 12:04:29 AM
None of the pictures I have are clear enough or show enough to be of help with wire routing. Below is a list of cars I found in my data base that had the option. Hope this helps in some way

7F02C1292xx Real build 05M
7F01S1350xx Real build 19M
7F02K1580xx Real build 20B

7R01C1390xx Projected   19L
7R03S1515xx Projected   12M
7R02C1518xx Projected 13M

7T02C1865xx Real build 18A
7T02S2279xx Real build 17D

8F02S1000xx Real build 2H (show car)

8R02J1107xx Real build 11M
8R03S1404xx Real build 07B
8R01J1529xx Real build 25C
8R02R1722xx Real build 29U
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta on September 29, 2018, 11:57:51 AM
Interesting topic!

Jan. 67 Dearborn

From solenoid follows harness along front of radiator, up drivers side to about 3 inches from firewall. Then over booster through clip on firewall just for it. Ends in 3 position receptacle, about 4 inch wire with plug then goes through firewall hole with goop around it. Firewall hole about mid way between shock tower braces.

Upper Left - DOOR
Lower left - BELT
Upper Right - FUEL
Lower Right - PARK  (Flashes)

If the engine is being cranked for awhile the FUEL light will flash.

Jim
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on September 29, 2018, 09:08:43 PM
Belt, Door, Fuel and Brake. Left to right.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on September 29, 2018, 09:11:26 PM
Keith : Is there anyway you can find out the Build Date of the NPD Owner's 19,000 mile example.

Thanks,

Bob
Bob, I was at NPD in January and the vehicle is no longer on display. I will call and ask Wade if he can provide the VIN for our little study.

                                                                                                                -Keith
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 30, 2018, 03:00:26 AM
Interesting topic!

Jan. 67 Dearborn

From solenoid follows harness along front of radiator, up drivers side to about 3 inches from firewall. Then over booster through clip on firewall just for it. Ends in 3 position receptacle, about 4 inch wire with plug then goes through firewall hole with goop around it. Firewall hole about mid way between shock tower braces.

Upper Left - DOOR
Lower left - BELT
Upper Right - FUEL
Lower Right - PARK  (Flashes)

If the engine is being cranked for awhile the FUEL light will flash.

Jim

Jim : Thanks for your Reply. A couple of questions :

1) What day of January 1967 ?

2) Since you added information about the lenses ;
     a)  Is it "BELT" or "BELTS  ?
     b)  Color of lenses (Red or Blue) ?
     c)  Are lenses "backlit" or is printing in white on face of lenses ?

Thanks again for your help.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 30, 2018, 03:10:20 AM
Keith :On your Reply #   143, didn't you mean "Nov 1966  ?

Belt, Door, Fuel and Brake. Left to right.

Since you added the above information on the lenses, a couple of questions :

a)  Is it "BELT" or "BELTS  ?

b)  Color of Lenses ?

c)  Are lenses "backlit" or is printing in white on face of lenses ?

Thanks again,

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on September 30, 2018, 03:14:42 AM
Bob, I was at NPD in January and the vehicle is no longer on display. I will call and ask Wade if he can provide the VIN for our little study.

                                                                                                                -Keith

Keith : Thanks for your offer to contact Wade. When you do, the VIN number isn't necessary, just the "Build Date" and whether the "Proof Wire" heads toward the Firewall on the Passenger's side or the Driver's side.

Thanks,

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta on October 01, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
Jim : Thanks for your Reply. A couple of questions :

1) What day of January 1967 ?

2) Since you added information about the lenses ;
     a)  Is it "BELT" or "BELTS  ?
     b)  Color of lenses (Red or Blue) ?
     c)  Are lenses "backlit" or is printing in white on face of lenses ?

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

Jan 6th.

Black circle (no backlit) purple/blue DOOR letters
Red circle (backlit) white BELT letters (no S)
Green circle (backlit) white FUEL letters
Black circle (no backlit) red PARK letters
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on October 03, 2018, 12:23:48 PM
Keith : Thanks for your offer to contact Wade. When you do, the VIN number isn't necessary, just the "Build Date" and whether the "Proof Wire" heads toward the Firewall on the Passenger's side or the Driver's side.

Thanks,

Bob

Scheduled 12/16/66 actual 12/19/66
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on October 03, 2018, 04:31:40 PM
John : Thanks. Being that it is a 1966 Build Date, based on the known 1966 Builds we have documented, it probably has the Proof Wire along the Driver's side, but would be nice to know for sure.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: J_Speegle on October 03, 2018, 08:07:09 PM
Don't know if this will help but here is a picture of the dash panel from 8F03S1232xx. Sorry don't have a real build date. Will keep an eye out for more

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-031018190604.jpeg)
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on October 03, 2018, 11:18:55 PM
Jeff : Thanks. We don't have a lot of pictures of 68's with the SCS, so yes, this helps.

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on November 23, 2018, 11:45:38 AM
Jeff : Thanks. We don't have a lot of pictures of 68's with the SCS, so yes, this helps.

Bob

A few more pics, including back side found on an eBay sale:
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 196667Bob on November 23, 2018, 02:11:23 PM
Jeff : Thanks once again for posting some pictures. It's good to have some more 1968 info.
A word of caution though for those viewing these. The bezels and lenses shown with the Dash Panel appear to both be the Scott Drake reproductions. I say this based on two observations. First, the use of "SEAT" for the Seat Belt Warning Light only has been shown to appear on the reproductions. In the research and documentation done so far on 1967 and 1968 Mustangs with the Safety Convenience Option, the majority have "BELTS", and two have been noted as "BELT", singular. And secondly, the steel "tubes" to which the bezels/ lenses shown in your pictures are attached (the reproduction bezels/ lenses do not come with these "tubes") are not correct for the Mustangs or the non-padded console Cougars. The correct tubes have the "prongs" that hold the assembly in the dash panel or console, located right next to the "mushroomed" end of the tube (see first picture attached). The "tubes" shown that are attached to the bezels clearly show that the "prongs" are not at the end of the tube. These tubes were used on the Early Cougars with the padded consoles and on most 1964-67 Thunderbirds (see second picture attached). These "tubes" can only be used successfully on the Mustangs with the addition of a 3/16" spacer.

Thanks again,

Bob
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on November 23, 2018, 03:27:28 PM
Jeff : Thanks once again for posting some pictures. It's good to have some more 1968 info.
A word of caution though for those viewing these. The bezels and lenses shown with the Dash Panel appear to both be the Scott Drake reproductions. I say this based on two observations. First, the use of "SEAT" for the Seat Belt Warning Light only has been shown to appear on the reproductions. In the research and documentation done so far on 1967 and 1968 Mustangs with the Safety Convenience Option, the majority have "BELTS", and two have been noted as "BELT", singular. And secondly, the steel "tubes" to which the bezels/ lenses shown in your pictures are attached (the reproduction bezels/ lenses do not come with these "tubes") are not correct for the Mustangs or the non-padded console Cougars. The correct tubes have the "prongs" that hold the assembly in the dash panel or console, located right next to the "mushroomed" end of the tube (see first picture attached). The "tubes" shown that are attached to the bezels clearly show that the "prongs" are not at the end of the tube. These tubes were used on the Early Cougars with the padded consoles and on most 1964-67 Thunderbirds (see second picture attached). These "tubes" can only be used successfully on the Mustangs with the addition of a 3/16" spacer.

Thanks again,

Bob

I wonder what 68 Mustangs WITH Air Conditioning have. They have a padded console surface and radio face panel. Likely the 2nd version shown in your pictures
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gta289 on May 27, 2019, 09:27:33 AM
Here are some more details on the routing of the proof wire C7ZB-9C877-A. 

Also from this thread: http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=14006.msg128726#msg128726

There is a question about proof wire taping and clamps for support purposes.  I found no evidence of these in the attached document.  Perhaps this explains why some of the wire is missing!
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: RoyceP on May 29, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
This is a very interesting thread. One thing I did not see over the previous 11 pages was the electrical schematic from Ford. Here is the '68 schematic.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: RoyceP on May 29, 2019, 10:39:14 AM
Here is the 1968 Convenience panel General Arrangement for the wiring and components.
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: RoyceP on May 29, 2019, 11:26:54 AM
This schematic is also found in the electrical book:
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67GTAConvt on June 19, 2019, 11:23:44 AM
I have a 67 GTA convertible with factory (Marti verified) tilt wheel, convenience control and A/C options.  The car has been tinkered with over the years, so I can't claim that it has the original wiring or lights, but the wiring appears to be original because of the tags on it.  The car was built Dec 1, 1966 in Dearborn.

I took the wiring out of the car last winter, and put it all in the same box.  I didn't know about the proof wire at the time.

It had the back lit blue and red warning lights. 
It has the early vacuum splitter under the dash for the tilt.
It has the early vacuum can inside the engine bay under the hood hinge.

For the proof wire, or at least what I believe is the proof wire, there is a single black wire leading from the firewall to the relay along the driver side.  It is integrated (taped) into the wiring harness part way and appears to have been built that way.  It has a male end at the firewall and a ring at the relay.  I can't find a triple female connector for it.  The wire does have a p/n on it, but it isn't what was identified above (I think it was like 9A611?)  I will verify tonight.

Now, I'm adding Speed Control to the car, so there is another dimension of mystery and craziness.  In the Speed control section of the MPC , the wire C7ZB 9C877-A is identified as the 'Wire Assy. - Speed Control Extension'.  So, if the wire has a triple female end, then it appears that the Speed control and the convenience could both plug into it?

I am adding the Curtis Wright system because my car is an early model and would have received it before the Perfect Circle system was available.  I picked up some Speed Control wiring from a 67 passenger Ford and it as a red wire that I had identified as the 9C877 wire.  The control unit on full size cars is mounted on the inside of the driver side wheel well, so the wire lengths are off, but it has all the wiring and fittings for the Speed control.  I thought I would just adjust the wiring lengths to fit the Mustang.



Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67gtasanjose on June 19, 2019, 12:57:54 PM
I have a 67 GTA convertible with factory (Marti verified) tilt wheel, convenience control and A/C options.  The car has been tinkered with over the years, so I can't claim that it has the original wiring or lights, but the wiring appears to be original because of the tags on it.  The car was built Dec 1, 1966 in Dearborn.

I took the wiring out of the car last winter, and put it all in the same box.  I didn't know about the proof wire at the time.

It had the back lit blue and red warning lights. 
It has the early vacuum splitter under the dash for the tilt.
It has the early vacuum can inside the engine bay under the hood hinge.

For the proof wire, or at least what I believe is the proof wire, there is a single black wire leading from the firewall to the relay along the driver side.  It is integrated (taped) into the wiring harness part way and appears to have been built that way.  It has a male end at the firewall and a ring at the relay.  I can't find a triple female connector for it.  The wire does have a p/n on it, but it isn't what was identified above (I think it was like 9A611?)  I will verify tonight.

Now, I'm adding Speed Control to the car, so there is another dimension of mystery and craziness.  In the Speed control section of the MPC , the wire C7ZB 9C877-A is identified as the 'Wire Assy. - Speed Control Extension'.  So, if the wire has a triple female end, then it appears that the Speed control and the convenience could both plug into it?

I am adding the Curtis Wright system because my car is an early model and would have received it before the Perfect Circle system was available.  I picked up some Speed Control wiring from a 67 passenger Ford and it as a red wire that I had identified as the 9C877 wire.  The control unit on full size cars is mounted on the inside of the driver side wheel well, so the wire lengths are off, but it has all the wiring and fittings for the Speed control.  I thought I would just adjust the wiring lengths to fit the Mustang.
Yes, they would share the same wire.
Be sure to look for the article in the Library of this site for the Speed Control Installation instructions. It should answer most of your questions. Rare to find any factory installed speed control on a December built example so good luck in your pursuit of stress for getting it "correct".
Title: Re: 1967-68 Safety Convenience System - Application, Components, Wiring, Lenses and Bulbs
Post by: 67GTAConvt on June 25, 2019, 12:33:20 PM
I know I'm chasing that Speed Control Dragon but I'm REALLY close to having everything I need.  I also understand that the dealer installed option was probably the Full Circle system, which would be WAAAAY easier, but I ended up with all of the Curtis Wright parts, so I'm going for the factory install.  The installation instructions in the library are a GREAT help!

So, not to hijack this thread with Speed Control nonsense...

I went through my wiring and found the factory proof wire.  It had been cut down to about a foot and I believe it was attached to the back of the ignition switch.  I bought the car and immediately disassembled it, so I have no idea if any of the convenience options even worked.

Now, I'm going to have to hunt down that wire..