Author Topic: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process  (Read 3110 times)

Offline 67gta289

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67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« on: December 25, 2009, 10:23:12 AM »
Currently restoring a 1967 San Jose built fastback (Dec 66, DSO SJ also) and would like to know more about the basic assembly process in regards to undercoating, primer, and paint.  From reading through all of the postings, observing pictures, etc. I will re-state what I think I have learned:
1. Undercoating applied first, prior to primer (Note that most of my undercoating is still in place and will remain so.  I will only have to replace some pieces that have flaked off)
2. Primer (probably red oxide) applied to the whole vehicle (via a semi-automated system that engulfed the floorpan area.  Is this what caused the large drips?)
3. Body color applied including the interior floor pan and trunk area.  Looks like the engine compartment was painted to some degree as I found body color under the black paint below the hinges and on the firewall.  Also found body color on the aprons under the rear inner splash shields after they were removed.  Not sure how far forward body color was applied.  ???
4. Black paint applied in the engine compartment and inner fenders, although from pictures there would have been some visible red oxide on the shock towers behind the springs.

I would appreciate if anyone can add some details and/or point me in the right direction of any publications that have the gory details I'm looking for.

Thanks, John
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline midlife

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2009, 09:57:23 PM »
Whoa!  I didn't think undercoating was applied at any factory, only by the dealers.  Therefore, primer goes first.

Offline caspian65

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2009, 11:44:19 PM »
Whoa!  I didn't think undercoating was applied at any factory, only by the dealers.  Therefore, primer goes first.

Yes, correct, but sound deadener was applied in various areas throughout the cars, which most would think of as undercoating.

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Offline midlife

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2009, 10:32:40 PM »
Well, Charles, even if that was true, wasn't that sound deadening applied after primer?  I'm thinking of the front fenders in particular.  I know in the trunk interior, the sound deadening was applied before top coat.

Offline caspian65

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2009, 10:41:48 PM »
Well, Charles, even if that was true, wasn't that sound deadening applied after primer?  I'm thinking of the front fenders in particular.  I know in the trunk interior, the sound deadening was applied before top coat.


Not necessarily.  In some areas, sound deadener and/or seam sealer was applied directly to bare metal.
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2009, 10:59:23 PM »

1. Undercoating applied first, prior to primer (Note that most of my undercoating is still in place and will remain so.  I will only have to replace some pieces that have flaked off)

Sound deadener and seam sealer in areas like the trunk and the rear wheel wells were applied (this year and plant) most commonly before the primer was applied



2. Primer (probably red oxide) applied to the whole vehicle (via a semi-automated system that engulfed the floorpan area.  Is this what caused the large drips?)

Not really, The front clip area (firewall forward approx) were painted by hand (worker applied with spray gun) then the car passed over jets mounted below the rails the car was traveling on. These jets normally stopped applying the primer about 6" before the rear most section of the car was reached since often the rear cross member only received a light amount of overspray


3. Body color applied including the interior floor pan and trunk area.  Looks like the engine compartment was painted to some degree as I found body color under the black paint below the hinges and on the firewall.  Also found body color on the aprons under the rear inner splash shields after they were removed.  Not sure how far forward body color was applied.  ???

The body color was applied first and any applied forward of the firewall would normally be covered (this plant and year) Sometimes it appears that a new or fill in worker would apply paint further forward but this is not typical.


4. Black paint applied in the engine compartment and inner fenders, although from pictures there would have been some visible red oxide on the shock towers behind the springs.

Its a somewhat rare event to find red oxide directly behind th efront spring in the shock towers. More often than not, in my experience this is due to the paint being thinner there and with age an cleaning we often remove the top layer. The leading and rear ward surfaces in the shock tower were often very thin when it came to the application of the red oxide sealer or the black and often we find rust today on these surfaces since workers did not take to time to always fully coat these surfaces

I would appreciate if anyone can add some details and/or point me in the right direction of any publications that have the gory details I'm looking for.


Email me (rather than PM) and I think I can help with this request
Jeff Speegle

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Offline 67gta289

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2009, 09:05:14 AM »
Thanks to all for the replies.  Jeff - I would email you as you suggested but could only find a link to PM.

I understand the recommendation to refer to the "undercoating" as "sound deadener".  In many areas, when a piece of the sound deadener is chipped off there is nice shiny steel underneath - no primer.  This includes the front wheel well area.  I don't see any evidence that the sound deadener pulled off primer.

John
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
MCA 74660

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2009, 06:43:38 PM »
I understand the recommendation to refer to the "undercoating" as "sound deadener".  In many areas, when a piece of the sound deadener is chipped off there is nice shiny steel underneath - no primer.  This includes the front wheel well area.  I don't see any evidence that the sound deadener pulled off primer.

Will follow up.

IF the sound deadener is over the seam sealer when it pulls up as a unit it would only show bare metal in this application
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 01:17:44 PM »
Note sure where to post this, so feel free to move.

The issue of interior floor color has come up, so here is a pic of my first week of March SJ Shelby. Most of the chassis dates to approximately late January (on average). All indications from a series of other pics that this is a stock interior floor color. Red oxide is visible as a background under this batch color and on the sills.

Other owners painted the floors after this picture was taken with rattle can black.
Oh, the humanity!

As you can tell the interior is black with a Lime Gold exterior.

Of special interest to the sealer geeks is the seat panel and trannie tunnel treatment.

[Click on this pic to be taken to my Flicker account where a subsequent click will enlarge the pic]
Bill
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Offline Bossbill

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 12:17:46 PM »
I'm getting close to spraying the interior floor with sealer in the appropriate places.
The PO removed all the sealer everywhere when he "cleaned things up".
So I get to test out the Lord sealer gun that I borrowed from my painter. It appears my painter has every body tool known to man. He also gave me a tube of Wurth sealer as it was getting along in age.

My question is about the paint color in the above photo. We've heard batch paint is just the previous day's exterior paint all thrown into a big pot for use as the next day's interior paint. Is that the case for SJ in May too?
I can think of no other reason for this interior paint color. But how did it end up silver gray? A huge run of silver and white cars in the previous day?
Any opinions?
Bill
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Offline GT500KR

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 01:26:17 PM »
Bill,
   I believe what you are seeing is body color overspray over primer on the seat risers, tunnel, and floor boards. The metallic gives it a silver-ish look.
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017, 02:45:04 PM »
My question is about the paint color in the above photo. We've heard batch paint is just the previous day's exterior paint all thrown into a big pot for use as the next day's interior paint. Is that the case for SJ in May too?

Not correct. At San Jose batch color wasn't used as a undercarriage coating from the firewall rearward until 69.  Some variables in the color in 67 & 68 might have come from addition of some paint in the earlier years but it appears to always have been a white so not truly a batch and it was used on the undercarriage not on other parts of the car. Different areas - different sources of paints and coatings



I can think of no other reason for this interior paint color. But how did it end up silver gray? A huge run of silver and white cars in the previous day?
Any opinions?

As already mentioned as you "mix" colors by spraying one over another in mist or overpsray form you get combinations and variations. Often an interior will have a half dozen different final looks or colors depending on where its found. Some areas well hidden will be bare steel or very lightly covered with red oxide, other areas, upper interior or hidden corners may have a light coating of red oxide with a light mist of exterior color while others may have a good coating of red oxide and or exterior color as the majority of the exterior color would settle on the flat horizontal surfaces and less on the vertical and corners since those painters didn't focus on coating the interior
Jeff Speegle

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