Author Topic: black out question again!  (Read 2996 times)

Offline Armond

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black out question again!
« on: August 18, 2012, 02:07:05 AM »
I know Bob or Ed or Jeff can help here and others too.  Looking at these pictures you can see the black out line, located with arrows. And you can see the fender mounting to the core support.  You can see that the shims with tape are still in place.  It looked to me that the tape and the shims were over sprayed with black out along with the screws.  So it would seem that it was done after the fenders were mounted?  Did they tape off the front part of the headlight area to avoid black paint getting on the gray? It would seem they must have had too. The two bolts for the fender to headlight bucket must have been painted black? Also it appears the grill was attached after the black out.  These pics are off an original car I am finally finishing. I know this was discussed a while back, but I just want to make sure on the sequence. Also this is car 21 so it is very early so there might be some differences than normally seen. Thanks for any input! 

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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 08:54:59 PM »
I guess the first place to start might be the term "black out"  since the are your referring to (the sheet metal sides that attach to the fender and to the face of the radiator support were typically the dark argent/charcoal color.

Help me recall the details of this particular car if you would, to be sure that I remember it correctly. Wasn't this car tapped on the drivers side front fender?? IF I remember correctly they didn't black out the turn indicator pocket and left the upper plate should in your picture on the drivers side body color also.   If the cars front end was altered could what we see now possibly be black rattle car be someone later effort to clean up the front end? Car #218 didn't have any black on those surfaces - closest original cars I've owned close to your cars VIN

For others we're discussing a very very early 69 351 (#21) that I think was built in October.

Just asking of course and looking for a solid starting place for discussion :)  I know the other two (Ed and Bob) aren't back from Monterey as of yet - sure they will join in the next day or so. 


A few examples from later original paint car to help the discussion




A couple of pictures of the cars being assembled

Appears to be that the workers are masking off the headlight and grill opening area so that the grey can be applied to the front end before it was installed
Cropped from a larger original picture





Another of the completed front end - notice that that area your looking at on your car does not appear to be bare steel nor unpainted light pick fiberglass/plastic


« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 09:34:42 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 09:34:51 PM »
Armond,I agree with Jeff's details .The tape for the tape together shims would not typically show any signs of paint as they were added after the painting process was done. p.s look forward to catching up to you.It's been too long. 
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Armond

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 11:46:34 PM »
Thanks guys for replying.  I thought it might have been rattle canned at some point.  I  just wanted to make sure it was not a process they did at the end. Though I had never seen it on another car.  Yes Jeff this car was repaired to the left fender and front at one point.  On the restored cars I have seen, the shims never had paint on them.  I have not seen any untouched cars that I can think of.   Bob I do plan on SAAC 38 next year. Maybe we'll see you there? Thanks!! Armond
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Offline specialed

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 01:56:35 PM »
Armond in the first photo you can see the black over the grey at bottom headlite bucket & a later rattle can touch-up. I can see where you thought that by looking at shim tape bare & no black on tape but that was masking tape & after pressure washing & outside weather elements the paint would wear off the tape easier than the metal. Also in your first photo there is no blackout around the park lamp area?

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 09:13:02 PM »
............. Also in your first photo there is no blackout around the park lamp area?

That detail might have gotten lost with the earlier repair
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Armond

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 09:02:04 PM »
Here is a rehash on the old topic of the lower valance black out.  Here is a picture of the passengers side.  This area never had any repairs. Notice there is no black out on the lower panel. I did not take as many pictures as I should have here. One interesting note is the two small front fender marker lights were installed and masked off before the nose was painted. There was the bare gray primer under them.  No I did not take a picture.  Notice there is no black out on the bonding strip nor inside the fender as might be expected except the GA paint. Also you can see that the bonded splash shield brace has a tint of teal and I would have expected this to have some black on it also if originally blacked out.

The small side lamps had no black sprayed on the side of them, on the inside and that would have been the case because the lamps were  in place at the time it was supposed to be blacked out.  As it is, there was none found except on the top side I showed in the other picture and was done probably by the shop who did the repair or the prior owner and he does not remember doing it.  The drivers side did show some over spray on the turn signal light and fog lamp. Poorly masked. The only repair done was the left front fender at one time.  So after talking with Ed and based on my few pics and my excellent memory. I conclude this car did not get blacked out down under as it should have.  Also the front gravel shield was not black on the underside but gray.  This had never been taken of the car.  I think Bob had mentioned it should be black in a prior post. 



« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 09:04:21 PM by Armond »
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 10:31:54 PM »
Don't know how to explain why this car didn't get the area behind the trun indicators as shown in the pictures showing the workers painting the front ends at the factory. IMHO I would want more than a single car with multiple prior owners before I was choosing to change from the norm (no black out at turn indicators and suggesting they were installed prior to body color)

As for the black out on the lower grill panel I believe you might have confused a description of the front lower valances back side being blacked out. The upper panel I've seen with simply overspray from the paint application above

Have pictures of the back side of that same panel but away from the hard drive at the moment
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 11:16:59 PM »
Don't know how to explain why this car didn't get the area behind the trun indicators as shown in the pictures showing the workers painting the front ends at the factory. IMHO I would want more than a single car with multiple prior owners before I was choosing to change from the norm (no black out at turn indicators and suggesting they were installed prior to body color)

As for the black out on the lower grill panel I believe you might have confused a description of the front lower valances back side being blacked out. The upper panel I've seen with simply overspray from the paint application above

Have pictures of the back side of that same panel but away from the hard drive at the moment
I couldn't put it any better. Only reasonable explanation you misunderstood what I had said. I can't think of a good reason to black out under the upper panel.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2012, 11:27:19 PM »
Armond, you have a tough choice , choose to restore it the way it was meant to be or restore it the way you found it and replicate a mistake that doesn't make the car better but less then so you have to explain it every single time . Unfortunately sometimes without someone to explain the anomaly there will be people looking at the work that will think the most likely explanation (which wouldn't be correct in this case) that the restorer didn't do the job correctly. I tough choice to be sure . The best of luck with what ever you decide.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 11:29:23 PM by Bob Gaines »
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Armond

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 03:44:58 AM »
I think I may want to leave it as found just so I can have a nice discussion with Jeff just in case he ever happens to judge it!  Actually I'll leave it up to the owner.  I personally like unusual things on these cars and don't mind it shown that way as long as it is documented and can be obviously proven. Mistakes happened. You are probably correct about what I read about the black out as to what I thought you were referring to the gravel shield.  Thanks guys!
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Offline rayms69

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 09:03:49 PM »
Why cant the pics be seen, they say "please update your account to see third party posts"?  Do I need to do something?

Offline svo2scj

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2017, 09:22:02 PM »
This isn't your issue Ray..........we are all being effected my Photobucket's decision to "hold photos hostage" THINKING people will pay for what was a free service for years !  LOL

It is actually too bad , as I like many viewed car forums as a wiki for information where we could learn from what what shared by others !!

Unless some site shows up with an offer , and an app that interfaces with all of the Photobucket links to REISSUE it is probably a moot point.

Mark
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AB , Standard Interior  San Jose built 4/22/1969

Offline ChrisV289

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2017, 09:22:19 PM »
Why cant the pics be seen, they say "please update your account to see third party posts"?  Do I need to do something?

It is Photobucket's $400 ransom price.  They don't allow you to post to third parties anymore...
Chris
1965 Honey Gold Fastback

Offline rayms69

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Re: black out question again!
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2017, 09:28:03 PM »
Thanks guys, thats a bummer, photobucket sucks anyways.  Too bad would have liked to see those pics. God bless CMF